How to get an e91 335i to M3 spec (chassis/suspension)

Theador · 01-21-2016, 11:11 AM

Ok, slight change of direction on this thread as you'll see after the first few posts - I've left the original post below.

So after ruling out buying a written off M3 and transferring the parts to an e91, the question now is how to get an e91 behaving like an M3 or better in terms of handling.

In terms of power, I'll be looking at single turbo conversion and a remap and leaving that at that, it's the suspension and chassis set-up that I'm interested in.

Original post--------->

Hi all. I'm throwing around a few ideas for a car this/next year.

I want a good fast e91.

One option is to get a 335i
Another, is to do something like this: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492494

First question. How much, roughly, would a complete e90 M3 cost that's been written off? Something with rear end or roof damage so the front end is in tact would be ideal but let's not jump the gun. Just an idea on an M3, average mileage, with body damage.

Russbmw · 01-21-2016, 11:29 AM

A bit of a tricky question to answer, as the cost would depend entirely on how badly damaged and specifically what was damaged.

Obviously any M3 parts you would need to replace would carry the ///M-tax, making repair expensive.

An M3 (or any BMW for that matter) without front end damage is unlikely, as usually the driver's lost control and stacked it, rather than someone destroying (and it would take a massive, chassis bending whack to do so) the rear end only - and even then it's highly likely that to do that much damage, the M3 would have been stationary, and subsequently launched into the car infront anyway.....so front end damage.

I'd rather have a straight, genuine tweaked 335 than a written off, bent M3 that's been massaged back to life. The M3 would be worth less when you came to sell it anyway, despite having sunk a fucktonne of cash into sorting it out.

Depends on your preferences I suppose, but I've bought cars that haven't been written off and have just had panels replaced or repaired, and as soon as I've become aware of it, I've instantly gone off the car to a degree.

Theador · 01-21-2016, 11:33 AM

I'm not looking to massage one back into life, hence, if the roof was caved in from a role it wouldn't really matter. I'll be looking to use it as a donor to convert an e91 into M3 spec like the one on the link.

But yes, agree it's difficult to say, was more of a hypothetical question really. Just assuming there was panel damage and mechanicals/electrics were ok. But then I'd be looking to shift over the bonnet, front wings and bumper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russbmw

A bit of a tricky question to answer, as the cost would depend entirely on how badly damaged and specifically what was damaged.

Obviously any M3 parts you would need to replace would carry the ///M-tax, making repair expensive.

I'd rather have a straight, genuine tweaked 335 than a written off, bent M3 that's been massaged back to life.

Depends on your preferences I suppose, but I've bought cars that haven't been written off and have just had panels replaced or repaired, and as soon as I've become aware of it, I've instantly gone off the car to a degree.

smuler · 01-21-2016, 11:39 AM

seems a hell of a journey, see this story. a successful one and not trying to create a touring M3
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38821

I think I would go for a nice E91 335i myself. hard to find these though, but good luck.

Theador · 01-21-2016, 01:08 PM

Ye maybe. Just a thought really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuler

seems a hell of a journey, see this story. a successful one and not trying to create a touring M3
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38821

I think I would go for a nice E91 335i myself. hard to find these though, but good luck.

Digitalize · 01-21-2016, 01:09 PM

I'd be surprised if you could make an E91 M3 for under £30k, even that would be cheap.

Theador · 01-21-2016, 01:27 PM

Puts a stop to that then

I was thinking 5k on a e91 318 m sport and about 8k on a written off M3. And then the time and money to do the build. But that's all based on nothing more than naval gazing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalize

I'd be surprised if you could make an E91 M3 for under £30k, even that would be cheap.

djgandy · 01-21-2016, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theador

Puts a stop to that then

I was thinking 5k on a e91 318 m sport and about 8k on a written off M3. And then the time and money to do the build. But that's all based on nothing more than naval gazing

Wait a year and you might be able to get an e90 M3 for £12k, providing you don't care about mileage. If the thing is in pieces you can do tonnes of engine maintenance anyway.

Unless you REALLY wan the S65 engine, why not get a 335i tourer and upgrade suspension. There are plenty of M3 parts that fit. If you aren't worried about mileage there are a fair few around.

Theador · 01-21-2016, 02:09 PM

Yeah, you're talking sense against my nonsense.

I just did quite like the idea of doing an e91 M3.

But yes, I see Idnan has done M3 suspension swap on an e91 335i that's up for sale. Probably the best way to go I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djgandy

Wait a year and you might be able to get an e90 M3 for £12k, providing you don't care about mileage. If the thing is in pieces you can do tonnes of engine maintenance anyway.

Unless you REALLY wan the S65 engine, why not get a 335i tourer and upgrade suspension. There are plenty of M3 parts that fit. If you aren't worried about mileage there are a fair few around.

Digitalize · 01-21-2016, 07:11 PM

A crash damaged E90 M3 is at least £15k, and then there will be a fair bit of work moving everything over, and the coding to make the E90 modules work with the E91, which isn't as simple as it first seems.

Custom body work to make the rear bumper, along with the arches, custom exhaust etc.

It's a lot of work, it's why there aren't many.

Decent spec 335i would be your best choice unless you absolutely want an E91 M3.

Honestly, you could run an E91 320D or similar and an E92 M3 for less money.

Theador · 01-22-2016, 01:19 AM

Yes. Reality bites. I'll stick to the 335i plan.

So then the question is which M3 chassis parts fit? I saw Idnan has put a modified M3 prop on a e91 335, and I've seen a post about using sway bars and drop links and control arms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digitalize

A crash damaged E90 M3 is at least £15k, and then there will be a fair bit of work moving everything over, and the coding to make the E90 modules work with the E91, which isn't as simple as it first seems.

Custom body work to make the rear bumper, along with the arches, custom exhaust etc.

It's a lot of work, it's why there aren't many.

Decent spec 335i would be your best choice unless you absolutely want an E91 M3.

Honestly, you could run an E91 320D or similar and an E92 M3 for less money.

smuler · 01-22-2016, 03:02 AM

To be comparable to a M3, surely you'd need a LSD?
I asked an informed modder about the various M3 suspension parts, I'll try and dig out his answer, for you.
But when others have asked, response seems to be to go for a b3 suspension package by well respected outfit, Birds who would also fit Quaife LSD.

Hmm, I don't know which would be better?

Theador · 01-22-2016, 03:38 AM

Totally. I think Idnan had modified an M3 Diff to fit onto the 335i gearbox.

And yes, whether to go aftermarket or M3 if not doing M3 conversion I guess is viable. I'm trying to find a thread I read about swapping out some M3 bits like control arms and drop links etc. Sounded like the guy was getting some nice handling at Nurburgring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuler

To be comparable to a M3, surely you'd need a LSD?
I asked an informed modder about the various M3 suspension parts, I'll try and dig out his answer, for you.
But when others have asked, response seems to be to go for a b3 suspension package by well respected outfit, Birds who would also fit Quaife LSD.

Hmm, I don't know which would be better?

djgandy · 01-22-2016, 03:55 AM

You can do subframe conversions. I'm no expert, but I think the main thing you need that is custom is a modified propshaft, but aside from that a lot of M parts fit the standard car.

I think the reason for doing the whole subframe is because the diff and all the wishboshes etc will be there already, and it saves you buying every single suspension part individually. Also the subframe itself will have the stiffer M3 bushes as standard.. There are subframes on ebay quite often.

For example this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subframe-C...IAAOSwYHxWFbNl
Just buying all the front control arms will cost you £100.

And here you have full subframe with running gear - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E90-E9...kAAOSw7FRWaF0u

£1200 will buy you the birds suspension sure, but you won't have all the wishbones, bushes, ARBs and the LSD. And on top of that you are getting some proper M brakes too.

That said such a conversion is not for the faint of heart. Idnan is your best bet, and I think some others have done it too. It all depends on how far you want to go and how good you are with these things mechanically.

As for the result, essentially what you have is the equivalent of a 3 series based 1M after the conversion. That's pretty much all a 1M coupe is. A 135i with an M3 chassis and a remap!

Theador · 01-22-2016, 04:03 AM

Thanks djgandy, that gives me some good research starters. I think you're right, if I can get to 'essentially a 1M on a 3 series chassis and a remap on the motor, although I was looking into the single turbo conversion on the N54, I'd be happy - for a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djgandy

You can do subframe conversions. I'm no expert, but I think the main thing you need that is custom is a modified propshaft, but aside from that a lot of M parts fit the standard car.

I think the reason for doing the whole subframe is because the diff and all the wishboshes etc will be there already, and it saves you buying every single suspension part individually. Also the subframe itself will have the stiffer M3 bushes as standard.. There are subframes on ebay quite often.

For example this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subframe-C...IAAOSwYHxWFbNl
Just buying all the front control arms will cost you £100.

And here you have full subframe with running gear - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E90-E9...kAAOSw7FRWaF0u

£1200 will buy you the birds suspension sure, but you won't have all the wishbones, bushes, ARBs and the LSD. And on top of that you are getting some proper M brakes too.

That said such a conversion is not for the faint of heart. Idnan is your best bet, and I think some others have done it too. It all depends on how far you want to go and how good you are with these things mechanically.

As for the result, essentially what you have is the equivalent of a 3 series based 1M after the conversion. That's pretty much all a 1M coupe is. A 135i with an M3 chassis and a remap!

djgandy · 01-22-2016, 04:17 AM

A single turbo 335i with M3 suspension is going to be a rocket. You'll probably want some after market coilovers too.

Two more things. Get EDC suspension if you can / if it can be fitted. It sounds like you are going big on this build, and having the option of some comfort on the road is priceless.
The other thing, try and get a cross strut. Might need a bit of custom tweaking to get it over the N54, but it will really tighten up the front end which can be a bit wobbly on the e9x. Having driven a Z4MC with one and an e92 M3 without that is one thing I noticed. The front was ridiculously tight on the Z4.

The 1M actually may have one, so maybe that part will fit!

Theador · 01-22-2016, 06:19 AM

Thanks buddy; yeah I'm hoping - money permitting - to buy an e91 towards the end of the summer and then get started on the modding towards the end of the year/early next year. So it's just research stage for the next few months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djgandy

A single turbo 335i with M3 suspension is going to be a rocket. You'll probably want some after market coilovers too.

Two more things. Get EDC suspension if you can / if it can be fitted. It sounds like you are going big on this build, and having the option of some comfort on the road is priceless.
The other thing, try and get a cross strut. Might need a bit of custom tweaking to get it over the N54, but it will really tighten up the front end which can be a bit wobbly on the e9x. Having driven a Z4MC with one and an e92 M3 without that is one thing I noticed. The front was ridiculously tight on the Z4.

The 1M actually may have one, so maybe that part will fit!

Wobble · 01-22-2016, 07:16 AM

Why not keep an eye for an m3 that's a cat d that's been repaired,as long as you've got pics of damage and receipts for the repair work you'll be good,always a few on eBay and piston heads x
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/311517678548
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/281897514797

Wayne-G · 01-22-2016, 07:35 AM

Try looking on Co-part for crash damaged m3's (No e9x's at the moment) They still pull around 10-15k ish damaged, plus its quite rare to see an e90 m3, mainly e92's!

Nicely modded 335i would be a lot less hassle!

djgandy · 01-22-2016, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wobble

Why not keep an eye for an m3 that's a cat d that's been repaired,as long as you've got pics of damage and receipts for the repair work you'll be good,always a few on eBay and piston heads x
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/311517678548
http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/281897514797

£21k for a Cat D, 2008!?!

I can walk in a BMW dealer and walk out with a 10 plate M3 for £25k...

Wayne-G · 01-22-2016, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djgandy

£21k for a Cat D, 2008!?!

I can walk in a BMW dealer and walk out with a 10 plate M3 for £25k...

I think that guys added up the price all of this options and added it onto the actual price of the car!!

Its pretty clean and what not but jesus that's a joke!

Thermobaric · 01-22-2016, 07:42 AM

I was going to say. That is a pretty ambitious price...

01-21-2016, 11:11 AM	#1
Theador Lieutenant 83 Rep 369 Posts Drives: BMW E91 M Sport 335i Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Henley on Thames iTrader: (0)	How to get an e91 335i to M3 spec (chassis/suspension) Ok, slight change of direction on this thread as you'll see after the first few posts - I've left the original post below. So after ruling out buying a written off M3 and transferring the parts to an e91, the question now is how to get an e91 behaving like an M3 or better in terms of handling. In terms of power, I'll be looking at single turbo conversion and a remap and leaving that at that, it's the suspension and chassis set-up that I'm interested in. Original post---------> Hi all. I'm throwing around a few ideas for a car this/next year. I want a good fast e91. One option is to get a 335i Another, is to do something like this: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492494 First question. How much, roughly, would a complete e90 M3 cost that's been written off? Something with rear end or roof damage so the front end is in tact would be ideal but let's not jump the gun. Just an idea on an M3, average mileage, with body damage. Last edited by Theador; 01-23-2016 at 04:16 AM..
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01-21-2016, 11:29 AM	#2
Russbmw Colonel 680 Rep 2,445 Posts Drives: 2018 630iGT sport Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Caloundra, Australia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW 640i [0.00] 2014 BMW 530d GT [0.00] 2017 Kawasaki Z1000SX [0.00]	A bit of a tricky question to answer, as the cost would depend entirely on how badly damaged and specifically what was damaged. Obviously any M3 parts you would need to replace would carry the ///M-tax, making repair expensive. An M3 (or any BMW for that matter) without front end damage is unlikely, as usually the driver's lost control and stacked it, rather than someone destroying (and it would take a massive, chassis bending whack to do so) the rear end only - and even then it's highly likely that to do that much damage, the M3 would have been stationary, and subsequently launched into the car infront anyway.....so front end damage. I'd rather have a straight, genuine tweaked 335 than a written off, bent M3 that's been massaged back to life. The M3 would be worth less when you came to sell it anyway, despite having sunk a fucktonne of cash into sorting it out. Depends on your preferences I suppose, but I've bought cars that haven't been written off and have just had panels replaced or repaired, and as soon as I've become aware of it, I've instantly gone off the car to a degree. __________________
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01-21-2016, 11:39 AM	#4
smuler First Lieutenant 51 Rep 306 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wales iTrader: (0)	seems a hell of a journey, see this story. a successful one and not trying to create a touring M3 http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38821 I think I would go for a nice E91 335i myself. hard to find these though, but good luck.
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01-21-2016, 01:09 PM	#6
Digitalize Photographer 413 Rep 2,643 Posts Drives: 320D Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	I'd be surprised if you could make an E91 M3 for under £30k, even that would be cheap.
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01-21-2016, 07:11 PM	#10
Digitalize Photographer 413 Rep 2,643 Posts Drives: 320D Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	A crash damaged E90 M3 is at least £15k, and then there will be a fair bit of work moving everything over, and the coding to make the E90 modules work with the E91, which isn't as simple as it first seems. Custom body work to make the rear bumper, along with the arches, custom exhaust etc. It's a lot of work, it's why there aren't many. Decent spec 335i would be your best choice unless you absolutely want an E91 M3. Honestly, you could run an E91 320D or similar and an E92 M3 for less money.
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01-22-2016, 03:02 AM	#12
smuler First Lieutenant 51 Rep 306 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wales iTrader: (0)	To be comparable to a M3, surely you'd need a LSD? I asked an informed modder about the various M3 suspension parts, I'll try and dig out his answer, for you. But when others have asked, response seems to be to go for a b3 suspension package by well respected outfit, Birds who would also fit Quaife LSD. Hmm, I don't know which would be better?
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01-22-2016, 03:55 AM	#14
djgandy Colonel 146 Rep 2,337 Posts Drives: E93 M3 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: London iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 M3 [0.00]	You can do subframe conversions. I'm no expert, but I think the main thing you need that is custom is a modified propshaft, but aside from that a lot of M parts fit the standard car. I think the reason for doing the whole subframe is because the diff and all the wishboshes etc will be there already, and it saves you buying every single suspension part individually. Also the subframe itself will have the stiffer M3 bushes as standard.. There are subframes on ebay quite often. For example this - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subframe-C...IAAOSwYHxWFbNl Just buying all the front control arms will cost you £100. And here you have full subframe with running gear - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E90-E9...kAAOSw7FRWaF0u £1200 will buy you the birds suspension sure, but you won't have all the wishbones, bushes, ARBs and the LSD. And on top of that you are getting some proper M brakes too. That said such a conversion is not for the faint of heart. Idnan is your best bet, and I think some others have done it too. It all depends on how far you want to go and how good you are with these things mechanically. As for the result, essentially what you have is the equivalent of a 3 series based 1M after the conversion. That's pretty much all a 1M coupe is. A 135i with an M3 chassis and a remap!
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01-22-2016, 04:17 AM	#16
djgandy Colonel 146 Rep 2,337 Posts Drives: E93 M3 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: London iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 M3 [0.00]	A single turbo 335i with M3 suspension is going to be a rocket. You'll probably want some after market coilovers too. Two more things. Get EDC suspension if you can / if it can be fitted. It sounds like you are going big on this build, and having the option of some comfort on the road is priceless. The other thing, try and get a cross strut. Might need a bit of custom tweaking to get it over the N54, but it will really tighten up the front end which can be a bit wobbly on the e9x. Having driven a Z4MC with one and an e92 M3 without that is one thing I noticed. The front was ridiculously tight on the Z4. The 1M actually may have one, so maybe that part will fit!
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01-22-2016, 07:16 AM	#18
Wobble Lieutenant 12 Rep 405 Posts Drives: E91 Bluewater 325d m sport Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Cheshire iTrader: (0)	Why not keep an eye for an m3 that's a cat d that's been repaired,as long as you've got pics of damage and receipts for the repair work you'll be good,always a few on eBay and piston heads x http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/311517678548 http://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/281897514797 Last edited by Wobble; 01-22-2016 at 07:22 AM..
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01-22-2016, 07:35 AM	#19
Wayne-G Lieutenant 105 Rep 401 Posts Drives: MG F30 330d Msport xDrive Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: County Durham iTrader: (0)	Try looking on Co-part for crash damaged m3's (No e9x's at the moment) They still pull around 10-15k ish damaged, plus its quite rare to see an e90 m3, mainly e92's! Nicely modded 335i would be a lot less hassle!
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01-22-2016, 07:42 AM	#22
Thermobaric Captain 65 Rep 670 Posts Drives: BMW E92 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Bucks iTrader: (1)	I was going to say. That is a pretty ambitious price...
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