[pbonsalb]

Most shops like to charge by book time. They can hustle and beat it and make more. That is ok. So they quote you a price on the job as a whole and you can take it or leave it. Maybe you can find a shop that will do the job based on time and materials but that can go either way — might not end up in your favor. If you think you can do better, then DIY. If you want to nickle and dime a shop, it probably won’t work out well for you long term. Find a good shop and trust them. Relationships built on distrust are not great.

[Cartman417209]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Most shops like to charge by book time. They can hustle and beat it and make more. That is ok. So they quote you a price on the job as a whole and you can take it or leave it. Maybe you can find a shop that will do the job based on time and materials but that can go either way — might not end up in your favor. If you think you can do better, then DIY. If you want to nickle and dime a shop, it probably won’t work out well for you long term. Find a good shop and trust them. Relationships built on distrust are not great.

I think everyone knows this. Thanks for the announcement lol

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by Cartman417209

I think everyone knows this. Thanks for the announcement lol

Oh, you'd be surprised. I think it's worth mentioning.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Cartman417209

I think everyone knows this. Thanks for the announcement lol

If someone is making a post that suggests they don’t know, which appeared to be the case here, it is worth mentioning. Or is someone just likes to mistreat shops and mechanics trying to earn a living, it is worth pointing out that is not appreciated.

[Rafichicago]

I would just buy used engine. There’s much less involved in swapping one than to rebuild one. Much more skill technical knowledge required not to mention time. I am not mechanic but I’d call myself mechanically inclined and it wouldn’t take me more than 8 hrs to remove it let alone someone that does mechanical work for a living.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Most shops like to charge by book time. They can hustle and beat it and make more. That is ok. So they quote you a price on the job as a whole and you can take it or leave it. Maybe you can find a shop that will do the job based on time and materials but that can go either way — might not end up in your favor. If you think you can do better, then DIY. If you want to nickle and dime a shop, it probably won’t work out well for you long term. Find a good shop and trust them. Relationships built on distrust are not great.

Even for what might be considered a simple job complications can arise and book time doesn't mean diddly.

I had my Boxster in for a 5K miles oil/filter service. One of the many it had over its 317K miles.

Tech ran into a problem not of his own making. The oil drain plug which was designed for an Allen head tool bit to fit was buggered. The problem arose from when I had the car in to a quicky lube joint -- I needed to leave town on short notice and the dealer was booked yet the car needed an oil/filter service so the quicky lube joint got the call -- the lube joint tech didn't insert the tool bit all the way into the tool bit hole. The fit was rather snug -- German cars... -- and resistance was felt due to trapped air way before the bit was fully inserted. I was aware of this but the tech wasn't and I didn't think to warn him. I supplied the oil, filter, associated o-rings, even the tightening torque specs for both the drain plug and filter. (Tech wanted to gorilla the drain plug to 50 ft lbs of torque tight when I think less than 30 ft lbs was called for.) Guess I should have warned him about the drain plug.

So the oil was changed while I waited. Paid for the work and got in the car and headed out of town. A week or so later rolled back into town having covered 5K miles. Time for another oil/filter service. This time the dealer had a service appointment open.

The dealer tech ran into a real problem getting the drain plug out. He put the tool bit in but because it was not able to go all the way to the bottom of tool bit hole it didn't grip right. He finally managed to hammer his tool bit in enough to loosen and remove the drain plug. But it was not reusable. The parts department had none in stock. He volunteered a used spare he had in his tool box.

I was not charged for this extra work. But I appreciated the tech's extra effort. I can't remember if I offered to buy him a new tool bit. I don't remember buying him one so either he didn't require a new one or he might have gotten a free replacement from the Snap On dealer. But before I left with the car I went straight to the parts department and ordered 2 new drain plugs. As soon as they arrived I gave one to the tech to replace the one he used in my car and the other I put in the center console of the car for just in case.

As a DIYer mechanic I ran into much the same when working on my cars or those of family or friends/neighbors. Almost every job I did mushroomed as I ran into complications. I continued to work on my cars but I severely cut back the work I did from neighbors, then friends, then family. And eventually I finally stopped working on my cars.

I talked to professional techs about this (among other things) and they told me it was the rare job on a vehicle with any real miles on it that a problem/complication was not encountered. Sure if everything went well book time could be beat. Occasionally because I was a good customer of this dealer I was given a break on the price of something I had done because the tech beat book time.

But the flip side is I owned up to any complication I might have created, even inadvertently. Thankfully this happened very very rarely. Two times maybe. Both times I offered to pay for the extra work/time but both times my offer was declined.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

If someone is making a post that suggests they don’t know, which appeared to be the case here, it is worth mentioning. Or is someone just likes to mistreat shops and mechanics trying to earn a living, it is worth pointing out that is not appreciated.

Yeah, I in no way implied I didn't know how the system works. I just said it's crazy to all parties involved. A mechanic who gets book time can expect to get shafted half the time, and the consumer gets shafted the other half.

Booked times should be used to set pricing baselines, and mechanics paid hourly for the amount of time they're act working. That way they never get shafted on hours, and the consumer doesn't either.

But the current system makes the most money for dealership service, so they won't change. Also service advisors are a waste. They're just sales people for service.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Yeah, I in no way implied I didn't know how the system works.

The replies weren't directed at you, just FYI.

[pbonsalb]

I am too slow to be a real mechanic — I would not make enough money. But I get a lot of stuff done on my cars and those of family and friends and have a very well equipped garage.

Currently redoing the rear suspension on a 2008 E61 535xi with 162k that we owned for 10 years and gave to a friend 4 years ago. Alignment bolts were frozen. Took me about 12 hours to do one side, but it was my first time. Had to do some cutting to remove frozen parts, press out 3 bushings that were pretty corroded in place, press in 3 new ones, and the hub took about 100 pulls with a slide hammer to remove and I had to cut and split the inner bearing race to get it off. Hoping to do the other side in closer to 8.