[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by xps

I have few points, I want to see if you agree-
1.) Will you not install a gaurd after knowing this can happen to these cars?

If your answer is No, then I commend your bravery that you are willing to go through this ordeal rather than protecting it from future possibility of the damage with $500 part.

If your answer is Yes. Then you agree BMW has a design gap and they left such a crucial component blatantly exposed and it requires an aftermarket part to correct their design

2.) If this is bad luck and happens primarily because of debri on road, does it also affect other makes similarly? The answer can be yes if the object was a large enough, but in my case this one is literally smaller than 1/8", this just tells me it is just a matter of time thes unprotected cars are hit by this issue leading to similar damage.

Also if this is such a rare phenomenon , I expect BMW to step up and own the short coming in their design and make this right.

For now, I am not adding anything. I am discussing with my builder and if we come up with something that will stop a larger object and not adversely affect the cooler, then that is a different story.

To add, is it a design flaw, I wouldn't call it that (to me, if you do, you are for the most part stating BMW doesn't kniw what they are doing (no, this is nit about money cause that would be pennies to add if the felt it was required)). I would be curious to know how many G80/82/87 cars have had oil coolers damaged/destroyed under these circumstances.

As far as size of the debris, there is no way that damage was from a 1/8" rock or similar sized piece of debris. That is from something much larger/heavier that was run over.

I would doubt, or be surprised, if BMW were to cover it. There was not a part failure or defective cooler, it was damage caused by another careless driver (notbsecuring debris that may have flown off their vehicle), mother nature (a rogue rock), ir even municipal workers for their shotty work and not cleaning up after road repairs or lack of general road upkeep.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by xps

The dealer is supposed to call me to give an update and next steps. Just waiting on them to call. I already know what they are going to say but I need the statement before I escalate it to BMW NA before I go the insurance route.

Really, similar to windshield damage from flying debris. Its most likely going to be an insurance claim (if so, you may want to make a police report for damage caused by road debris).

[Tag]

Originally Posted by alex2364

This oil cooler design started with F8x and S55 engines since 2015. S58 and B58 with the "Cooling and High Performance Tire Package" all have the same flaw. Quite a few people with F8x have had the same issue if you do a search. Doubtful BMW is going to do anything when they've known about this almost 9 years.

It goes back further than that, the F10 M5 had the same flawed design on the V8 twin turbo S63 engine.

[xps]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Really, similar to windshield damage from flying debris. Its most likely going to be an insurance claim (if so, you may want to make a police report for damage caused by road debris).

Do you file police report for wind shield damage? Never heard of it. Also how do I tell if it was debri on the road or if some thing flew from somewhere? Or of the oil cooler punctured itself due to oil pressure.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by xps

I have few points, I want to see if you agree-
1.) Will you not install a gaurd after knowing this can happen to these cars?

If your answer is No, then I commend your bravery that you are willing to go through this ordeal rather than protecting it from future possibility of the damage with $500 part.

If your answer is Yes. Then you agree BMW has a design gap and they left such a crucial component blatantly exposed and it requires an aftermarket part to correct their design

2.) If this is bad luck and happens primarily because of debri on road, does it also affect other makes similarly? The answer can be yes if the object was a large enough, but in my case this one is literally smaller than 1/8", this just tells me it is just a matter of time thes unprotected cars are hit by this issue leading to similar damage.

Also if this is such a rare phenomenon , I expect BMW to step up and own the short coming in their design and make this right.

Would you expect BMW to step up if a rock went through your headlight?

Considering the placement of that radiator, you have to be really unlucky for a rock to bounce up exactly at the right time AND be big enough to cause some real damage. Sucks this happened to you, but I don’t think I’d call it a design flaw.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by robopp

Would you expect BMW to step up if a rock went through your headlight?

Considering the placement of that radiator, you have to be really unlucky for a rock to bounce up exactly at the right time AND be big enough to cause some real damage. Sucks this happened to you, but I don’t think I’d call it a design flaw.

You're kidding, right? A damaged headlight doesn't blow up your engine no does it cost over $10k in damage.

Radiators and heat exchangers are fragile. They are literally thin pipes, typically aluminum, surrounded by thin fins to help dissipate heat. It's doesn't take much to put a dent in them much less puncture them. There's no way to determine the exact size of the object that caused the damage simply by looking at the size of the hole. Small rocks are able to cause big rock chips in your paint and even crack windshields depending on the angle they strike. Now place a fragile oil cooler underneath the car where the most road debris is and have it exposed. What could possibly go wrong?

[aerobod]

I wouldn't be surprised if a fairly large piece of debris in a road construction zone would be the cause of the damage. It is highly unlikely that 2 small rocks at the same time caused the two points of damage and the bent fins just in front of it. I would think the debris would be a single piece that is at least as big as the distance between the bent oil cooler tube and the indent where the oil seems to have leaked from, at least 30mm / 1 1/4" across.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by aerobod

I wouldn't be surprised if a fairly large piece of debris in a road construction zone would be the cause of the damage. It is highly unlikely that 2 small rocks at the same time caused the two points of damage and the bent fins just in front of it. I would think the debris would be a single piece that is at least as big as the distance between the bent oil cooler tube and the indent where the oil seems to have leaked from, at least 30mm / 1 1/4" across.

Oh but closure speed of the particle and car matters. Smaller particles can cause nice damage. Its simply physics. This is not nearly as simple and clean as alluded to here at all by a few posters lol. AMG has offerings for this. BMW cannot? Absurd. This is easily fkn mitigated.

As the chief engineer of Subaru said about a lack of increase in hp for the WRX-STi a few years ago - why increase power, the after market will take care of that! Thats the makers mentality. They know this will happen and it could be catastrophic of course.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by xps

Do you file police report for wind shield damage? Never heard of it. Also how do I tell if it was debri on the road or if some thing flew from somewhere? Or of the oil cooler punctured itself due to oil pressure.

I was makingba sort of comparison to the windshield (in Florida, its covered as a no fault claim). For other damage for riad debris, if making a claim it will most likely fall under collision. If you just make the claim as is, it will show as "your fault" single car accident, worst kind if claim.

I do have direct experience in this...a fewbyears ago, wife was driving a two month old car down a highway in S Florida. A piece of pipe flew off a wirk truck in front of her. She swerved to avoid the direct damage and to not hit the car to her right, she clipped the median curb. Entire fro b t drivers suspension was trashed. Close to $5k in parts and labor to make the repair. We made a claim on our insurance (which we for the following reason no longer use this company), said nothing and just wrote up the claim and paid less our deductible. Next renewal period, whammy! Major premium increase. When I called to complain, the firat this they said was did you get a police report? I said no, why would I have? They said the report to show that it was caused by road debris and not reckless/careless driving. They said without a report, nothing they could do.

Dont know if it is true in your State or other, but road debris is a major problem in Florida so I am sure that had/has something to do with it.

In your case, you dont know the type of debris but should be abke to ascertain the area and just identify it as road debris. Worst case, if it doesnt help with your insurance, it was only some time out of your day to file the report.

[xps]

Originally Posted by robopp

Would you expect BMW to step up if a rock went through your headlight?

Considering the placement of that radiator, you have to be really unlucky for a rock to bounce up exactly at the right time AND be big enough to cause some real damage. Sucks this happened to you, but I don’t think I’d call it a design flaw.

I would have paid out of pocket and probably be little upset that the headlight lense is designed to not withstand regular debri from road. But I would have definitely be as mad as I am now if the headlight damage made the car lose its engine or a similar crucial component.

I will give an example with how my thought goes in this matter - What if the windshield had a 1/2" x 1/2" hole with brittle plastic covering right in front of drivers face and the chance of getting hit by a debri is minimal and the chance the debri killing the driver is even less, would you still argue this is not a design flaw because it is not common?

Here we are talking about $45k replacement that is going to bother my insurance premiums for a long time. Note that I have not had a single claims until now,

My point is the oil cooler is weak point of the engine left to luck of the owner, the issue is the lack of any protection in the design.

I know the owner is the loser here, and the odds are not in favor. But this is a design flaw and negligence on bmws part.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Tag

You're kidding, right? A damaged headlight doesn't blow up your engine no does it cost over $10k in damage.

Radiators and heat exchangers are fragile. They are literally thin pipes, typically aluminum, surrounded by thin fins to help dissipate heat. It's doesn't take much to put a dent in them much less puncture them. There's no way to determine the exact size of the object that caused the damage simply by looking at the size of the hole. Small rocks are able to cause big rock chips in your paint and even crack windshields depending on the angle they strike. Now place a fragile oil cooler underneath the car where the most road debris is and have it exposed. What could possibly go wrong?

Oil levels and pressure are monitored constantly. 7.4 quarts of oil(1.85 gallons) doesn’t just disappear.

A parralel radiator is a lot less vulnerable than a perpendicular one. Radiators need access to ambient, you can’t cover them up without negative effects.

You also assume this was a rock. It might have been a piece of steel that would have ripped through any screen in place.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by DSTR

Oh but closure speed of the particle and car matters. Smaller particles can cause nice damage. Its simply physics. This is not nearly as simple and clean as alluded to here at all by a few posters lol. AMG has offerings for this. BMW cannot? Absurd. This is easily fkn mitigated.

As the chief engineer of Subaru said about a lack of increase in hp for the WRX-STi a few years ago - why increase power, the after market will take care of that! Thats the makers mentality. They know this will happen and it could be catastrophic of course.

In this particular case, there is no way a single small item hitting in the front damage area could then move downwards then up again (magically changing it's momentum without input from another surface) to re-impact slightly further back, just simply physics in that case, too. Going by the roundness of the tube distortion, it may not even be a rock, perhaps something more like a pronged metal object.

Doesn't mean to say extra protection isn't advisable, but this damage does not seem consistent with just a small rock from off the road surface.

[xps]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

I was makingba sort of comparison to the windshield (in Florida, its covered as a no fault claim). For other damage for riad debris, if making a claim it will most likely fall under collision. If you just make the claim as is, it will show as "your fault" single car accident, worst kind if claim.

I do have direct experience in this...a fewbyears ago, wife was driving a two month old car down a highway in S Florida. A piece of pipe flew off a wirk truck in front of her. She swerved to avoid the direct damage and to not hit the car to her right, she clipped the median curb. Entire fro b t drivers suspension was trashed. Close to $5k in parts and labor to make the repair. We made a claim on our insurance (which we for the following reason no longer use this company), said nothing and just wrote up the claim and paid less our deductible. Next renewal period, whammy! Major premium increase. When I called to complain, the firat this they said was did you get a police report? I said no, why would I have? They said the report to show that it was caused by road debris and not reckless/careless driving. They said without a report, nothing they could do.

Dont know if it is true in your State or other, but road debris is a major problem in Florida so I am sure that had/has something to do with it.

In your case, you dont know the type of debris but should be abke to ascertain the area and just identify it as road debris. Worst case, if it doesnt help with your insurance, it was only some time out of your day to file the report.

Ok, MI is no fault state, and I think it falls under comprehensive coverage from what I have read. I will know if/when I claim insurance.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by robopp

Oil levels and pressure are monitored constantly. 7.4 quarts of oil(1.85 gallons) doesn’t just disappear.

You can find numerous threads dating back years of people getting a warning and by the time they were able to safely pull over the engine was gone.

Originally Posted by robopp

A parralel radiator is a lot less vulnerable than a perpendicular one. Radiators need access to ambient, you can’t cover them up without negative effects.

And yet here we are, another oil cooler that's taken out an entire engine.

Originally Posted by robopp

You also assume this was a rock. It might have been a piece of steel that would have ripped through any screen in place.

Even if it was something in the road my point stands. The fact that anyone finds it an acceptable risk that running over something in the road that on 99% cars would cause little to no damage on could potentially destroy your engine is absurd.

#DesignFlaw

[xps]

Originally Posted by robopp

Oil levels and pressure are monitored constantly. 7.4 quarts of oil(1.85 gallons) doesn’t just disappear.

A parralel radiator is a lot less vulnerable than a perpendicular one. Radiators need access to ambient, you can’t cover them up without negative effects.

You also assume this was a rock. It might have been a piece of steel that would have ripped through any screen in place.

I actually went back to trace out, I see a huge puddle of oil at the place where I was parked to wait for tow truck, i would say 4x4 ft. And the dealer showed me about a 1-1.5quart they drained out from the engine. So I think due to the size of the puncture, and the engine running the oil must have squirted out 3-4qt before the engine was turned off.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Tag

Even if it was something in the road my point stands. The fact that anyone finds it an acceptable risk that running over something in the road that on 99% cars would cause little to no damage on could potentially destroy your engine is absurd.

#DesignFlaw

Putting radiators on the front must be a design flaw too.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=30489711

Where do you propose BMW put the oil cooler? There are only so many places and all are vulnerable.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by xps

I actually went back to trace out, I see a huge puddle of oil at the place where I was parked to wait for tow truck, i would say 4x4 ft. And the dealer showed me about a 1-1.5quart they drained out from the engine. So I think due to the size of the puncture, and the engine running the oil must have squirted out 3-4qt before the engine was turned off.

I’m really sorry this happened to you and I hope it all works out for you. You should be out driving around your new M2.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by robopp

Putting radiators on the front must be a design flaw too.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=30489711

Where do you propose BMW put the oil cooler? There are only so many places and all are vulnerable.

Putting on any radiator/HE without any protection, as on the G87, is the design flaw. I said this previously in this thread, guess you missed that too.

[kyrix1st]

I mean, G82 M4 has mesh grilles on all its front holes (the ones without carbon exterior pack,) so the mesh themselves shouldn't do too much harm on the G87 that shares the exact same components.

[T4dey]

Originally Posted by IM2C

Out of stock

In stock at Bimmer world.
Ordered and already shipped today.

[KC87ZB]

The puddle under the car theory is not a good one.

We don't know when the puncture under the car happened and oil at 40 psi (not sure what this engine is), is ejected quickly even through a small hole. Most of the OP's oil is up the road from where he parked. Just need enough oil loss to starve the pickup and you've lost the bottom end at a minimum.

This is a true tragedy for the OP; I think BMW should have provided a bit of protection around the oil cooler specifically as there is no real warning until it is almost catastrophic.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I don’t know why our cars don’t have that rubber flap under the bumper, and European cars do… I’m wondering if that can help deflect debris.

Car needs all the protection it can get lol