[BLK.G20]

I have owned a few more M's than I have AMG's, but I will say, Mercedes was always far more expensive to repair and maintain. Their part prices are also substantially higher than BMW.

[Bimmerfun82]

I've had 10 BMW's and have had 0 problems. Which is kind of amazing, right? To be fair I sold a few of them with 15-30k miles on them, and some of them are too new at this point. So this isn't enough mileage to really tell much of anything other than initial build quality or non-mechanical issues.

I've had 3 Mercedes, and all 3 had electrical problems. The first (c class) had stereo failure issues. The second (e550 coupe) had airbag/seat issues that sidelined it for months. The third (GL450) had a head unit fail (the main screen computer in the dash) that had to be replaced under warranty. None of them had mechanical issues over the course of 50k miles. None were high performance models.

[Forzanerazzurri]

BMW has come a long way since their first turbo engines in the late 2000s. On the newer cars they have learned to cool the engine bay more efficiently and to put plastic parts that are susceptible to heat cycling, away from engine hot spots which has increased reliability a ton.

That said, historically, when BMW has major failure points in engineering, it tends to be fairly catastrophic (carrier panels, crank hubs, rod bearings, VANOS, wastegates, etc.)

I'd still take a BMW over a MB every day.

[Pauly Wauly]

I had a 2013 c350 4matic for 6 years and it was more reliable than my BMW.
If it wasn't for someone hitting me while I was stopped at a red light I would probably still have it.

[Bimmer Pleaser]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

There is no such thing as BMW reliability.
There is no such thing as Mercedes reliability.

Every model, and year are different, so the reliability of the product depends on the exact product you buy (and how you maintain and drive it).

Overall scores are a joke and will benefit you nothing, unless, of course, you are buying every single car that each manufacturer produces.

A few years ago I would have agreed with you. Generally speaking, M and AMG reliability were similarly lower while non performance BMW/MB had better dependability. However, I don't think this is true anymore. BMW really has stepped up their game while MB has slipped. Other people in this thread posted links to sources. I also had bad experience with a 2018 C43. Design flaw in transmission (look up "C43 rodeo effect") which MB didn't even bother to acknowledge as well as other problems which I was lucky to get fixed under CPO.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Pleaser

Generally speaking, M and AMG reliability were similarly lower while non performance BMW/MB had better dependability. However, I don't think this is true anymore. BMW really has stepped up their game while MB has slipped.

To what mileage? See that's the point. It's all in the qualification. BMW's are just as bad if not worse than Merc as they age. Good thing they are both mostly owned by snoots that trade before the warranty is out. Who cares about longevity/reliability/maintenance when the average buyer needs the latest thing, even if it looks like a polished turd?

[Caveno]

If you want reliability get a Toyota. It’s more reliable because they use proven tech which will be always be older. BMW is definitely more progressive in its design and tech than MB and as such likely to have more issues. But that doesn’t mean one is better than the other.

My 16 750i has had almost 0 issues post warranty and some minor stuff during the warranty period. I had a 2008 GLS 550 and it had all kinds of issues with the power steering, suspension, and some of the electronics.

Buy what you like and don’t worry about the reliability. First generation cars will always be less reliable but usually can still get many years and miles out of them.

Reliability has become like hotel clensiness. Just about all hotels are clean enough to satisfy the customers.

[M4Tejas]

Originally Posted by xander_g

My e92 M3 despite being modded, has been the most reliable car I've owned so far and I've owned a few. F10 535 had a few minor warranty items and the G30 m550 so far had only 1.

My friend's amg gt53 is in and out the dealership for various issues ranging from dashboard rattles, reverse camera not working, parking sensors, seat issues, etc.
Another friend with a cls amg53 has had similar issues with electronics, air suspension and other minor issues.

I think the germans made more reliable vehicles in the past but lately bmw has been on an upward trajectory while mb has been steadily in decline.

E92's are great after "rod bearings". The race car shops all know about it. The V8 is one of the favorites.

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[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by Caveno

If you want reliability get a Toyota. It’s more reliable because they use proven tech which will be always be older. BMW is definitely more progressive in its design and tech than MB and as such likely to have more issues. But that doesn’t mean one is better than the other.

My 16 750i has had almost 0 issues post warranty and some minor stuff during the warranty period. I had a 2008 GLS 550 and it had all kinds of issues with the power steering, suspension, and some of the electronics.

Buy what you like and don’t worry about the reliability. First generation cars will always be less reliable but usually can still get many years and miles out of them.

Reliability has become like hotel clensiness. Just about all hotels are clean enough to satisfy the customers.

Re Toyota reliability, to be fair, it's not as simple as just using proven tech.

For example, in co-developing the Supra, BMW was surprised at how Toyota would take every bit down to a fastener or rivet and put it through their rigorous testing & quality control and those that failed were sent back to BMW with failure analysis and changes were made & the updated components were then tested again until they met targets. To assure quality, their shop floor uses kaizen techniques in order to eliminate defects and improve quality.

So from the nuts and bolts to development to process workflow to extreme defect analysis, their commitment to quality is very high, it's like a religion to them. They sacrifice on R&D to favor more stringent quality standards in all aspects of their development process.

[ASAP]

I always say this... BMW and Toyota reliability at the aggregate are laughable at best to compare...

Neither company makes similar cars nor serves as a similar market. Yes, Toyota is more reliable on the whole... but that is because Toyota for the most part makes outdated appliances like the Camry and Corolla that are used by people to just get to and from work... these are simpleton cars made in the most old school and cheap formats.

BMW makes cars for an entirely different clientele and focuses on tech, performance and luxury... it would be impossible for them to make a car as reliable as Toyota given the use case... and sorry Lexus with their million yea old V8s and infotainment out of a Highlander is not a good example of anything.

Toyota literally reached out to BMW to create the Supra and to Subaru to create the G86... Toyota's new turbo motors that they've been last to the market with... are actually dropping their reliability ratings because they have the least experience with modern turbos.

[99-ls1-ss]

My wife purchased a GLE580 in early 2021. About 6 months ago she traded it in on a Lexus RX350 Platinum SUV. She traded it in because of the electronic bugs it had as well as having to buy a set of $2700 tires every 10-12 months. Her main computer module that runs the touch screens had to be replaced. At one point you had about a 20% chance of the alarm randomly going off about a minute after you got out of the vehicle. Something in the suspension electronics malfunctioned. In fairness, it was all covered by warranty but it's a pain in the butt having to drop it off and be without it for an undetermined amount of time.
Also, for me personally, I could never get the seats adjusted to a point that I was comfortable. It also felt way too floaty when you were driving in normal mode. I had to put the suspension in sport any time I drove it. I feel like the subjective ride quality and being buggier than it should have been was enough to justify getting rid of it, especially considering it cost $100K.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by 99-ls1-ss

My wife purchased a GLE580 in early 2021. About 6 months ago she traded it in on a Lexus RX350 Platinum SUV. She traded it in because of the electronic bugs it had as well as having to buy a set of $2700 tires every 10-12 months. Her main computer module that runs the touch screens had to be replaced. At one point you had about a 20% chance of the alarm randomly going off about a minute after you got out of the vehicle. Something in the suspension electronics malfunctioned. In fairness, it was all covered by warranty but it's a pain in the butt having to drop it off and be without it for an undetermined amount of time.
Also, for me personally, I could never get the seats adjusted to a point that I was comfortable. It also felt way too floaty when you were driving in normal mode. I had to put the suspension in sport any time I drove it. I feel like the subjective ride quality and being buggier than it should have been was enough to justify getting rid of it, especially considering it cost $100K.

Whoever sold you $2700 tire set is collecting commission for it to this day

[damianwo]

I have had multiple MB AMG (05 c55 eurocharged ecu, 09 c63 renntech r2, 03 s55 and currently 18 gla 45 eurocharged) and BMW (06 M5 brentuning, 11 335i, 08 328i and currently F90 M5) vehicles and you can see that I’ve had the most unreliable models BMW has ever made so that settles it. Mercedes edges ahead in reliability but I still want to drive BMW every day.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I always say this... BMW and Toyota reliability at the aggregate are laughable at best to compare...

Neither company makes similar cars nor serves as a similar market. Yes, Toyota is more reliable on the whole... but that is because Toyota for the most part makes outdated appliances like the Camry and Corolla that are used by people to just get to and from work... these are simpleton cars made in the most old school and cheap formats.

BMW makes cars for an entirely different clientele and focuses on tech, performance and luxury... it would be impossible for them to make a car as reliable as Toyota given the use case... and sorry Lexus with their million yea old V8s and infotainment out of a Highlander is not a good example of anything.

Toyota literally reached out to BMW to create the Supra and to Subaru to create the G86... Toyota's new turbo motors that they've been last to the market with... are actually dropping their reliability ratings because they have the least experience with modern turbos.

Don't exactly know who reached out to whom first, but according to Tetsuya Tada, the creator of the 86, BMW had approached Toyota during a European press event in 2012 for the Toyota GT86 to suggest that the two companies collaborate. He was invited to BMW HQ where further discussions ensued. At the same time BMW and Toyota had already been in talks to collaborate in an initiative called Silk Road and the Supra was rolled into this program.

As for Toyota being "simpleton cars made in the most old school and cheap formats," that's unfair. Both companies have different priorities: Toyota prioritizes more on quality and reliability and BMW more on R&D. It doesn't mean one is cheaper or a simpleton to the other. So as I noted above, in the Supra/Z4 venture, it was discovered that Toyota had much more stringent quality control and other testing & development than BMW and so it was a learning curve on both sides. Toyota's development curve is much longer partly because their defect tolerances are much finer and QA more stringent, and the result is longer development lifecycle. This is partly the reason that older technologies continue to be deployed for longer periods.

[c1pher]

Back in the day, you bought a MB, paid extra in fact, knowing it could be the last car you ever needed to buy. Obviously that isn’t the case anymore but I do think MB quality has increased since the early 2000s.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by c1pher

Back in the day, you bought a MB, paid extra in fact, knowing it could be the last car you ever needed to buy. Obviously that isn’t the case anymore but I do think MB quality has increased since the early 2000s.

Quite the opposite, MB new car delivered quality and medium term reliability are some of the bigger dumpster fires in the automotive world.

All recently launched MB platforms have common problems unacceptable in cars with the price tags that MB carry.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by c1pher

Back in the day, you bought a MB, paid extra in fact, knowing it could be the last car you ever needed to buy. Obviously that isn’t the case anymore but I do think MB quality has increased since the early 2000s.

So has everyone else's quality. New cars are much better than they were in the 2000s across the board.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Caveno

If you want reliability get a Toyota. It’s more reliable because they use proven tech which will be always be older. BMW is definitely more progressive in its design and tech than MB and as such likely to have more issues. But that doesn’t mean one is better than the other.

I bought a Toyota that apparently had a first gen 3.5L V6

The engine blew up last year (120,000 miles) after going for 5 years with a loud metallic rattle that the dealer was unable to diagnose.

Turns out the timing chain bolt had undone itself!

Got an engine transplant that had 80,000 miles and the shop spent the next 3 months fixing an oil leak. It's now got more silicon than Pamela Anderson.

Still going.