[xander_g]

Originally Posted by BMthusiast

Touchscreens don't cause fingerprints, fingers cause fingerprints.

Agree. Hence my reluctance to touch touchscreens.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I got to where I really liked the electronic turn signal stalk. I think one of the biggest problems for consumers was that the majority of BMW employees (mainly dealer employees, CAs) didn’t understand (ever bother to learn) how it worked. If you turned on the turn signal and you wanted to cancel it all you had to do was push it down again in the direction it was currently flashing and it would turn off. So, if you inadvertently pushed it down too far while making a lane change and turned on the left turn signal, all you needed to do was push it down again and it would cancel. Hardly anyone understood that.

Understanding it and teaching your muscle memory how to indicate a turn after 40-years of otherwise is the issue. After a while it becomes second nature. I now have two BMWs that work that way . . . but that still leaves several older ones that don't—and two with the turn-signal stalk on the right side. Try that!

[wrickem]

I like gesture controls and voice commands, but I really appreciate the idrive knob when I get a certain Apple CarPlay glitch where I can’t use the steering wheel controls, the dash button or gesture controls to skip to the next track unless I disable/enable my iPhone. It’s handy to have that extra choice.

Also don’t like finding what I need then fingerprinting my screen.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Understanding it and teaching your muscle memory how to indicate a turn after 40-years of otherwise is the issue. After a while it becomes second nature. I now have two BMWs that work that way . . . but that still leaves several older ones that don't—and two with the turn-signal stalk on the right side. Try that!

You realize, of course, just by virtue of how long you have been in the business (or were in the business, you’re still in it, right?) you are exceedingly unique. 99.98% of CA are nothing but sales people who know the bare minimum necessary to sell the cars and couldn’t care less whether they sell BMWs or Yugos.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Gestur controls are stupid. iDrive is not. It's a selling feature, that I can intuitively control so many things using a rotary knob. Mine even has a touch screen so I can draw letters for searches.

Funny how trends run thier course.
I remember participating in debates about how dumb iDrive knob was, and how stupid it was for BMW to push it on the drivers.
That was ~25 years ago, right around the time of Bangle butt.

Now, somehow, people got trained to love and miss it!?!?

Originally Posted by bmwstephen

shame- BMW basically the innovative leader of interface and UI design for all their vehicles including that idrive knob; so many OEMs followed suit because it worked.

Except that hardly anyone did follow BMW's knob obsession. Audi tried with its MMI, MB with MBUX, both backed out.

What really killed 'da Knob were advancements in touch screens and touch screen UIs.
Both Apple CarPlay and AndroidAuto deliver far better UI experience without an expensive rotary knob.
BMW has followed into touch-screen land about 10 years ago, and since then the knob has became superfluous.

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

This is what people want these days? Another sitting in front of a computer screen?

It's been trending that way for about two decades now. Welcome aboard!

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Don't worry. It will return.
Public opinion of screens, buttons, and interfaces is shifting and BMW, once ahead of the curve, is way behind it now.

Yep.
It is hilarious for automakers to imagine they can do better an UX then Apple, Google, or Samsung. But they keep trying to rip off and recycle cell phone features, with delays and clumsiness.

So now its BMW's turn to obsess with (stupid) gesture controls, something that cell phones tried and ditched about 5-10 years ago. Give BMW another 10 years to learn the same lesson. After that, they will "reinvent" something else.
Cell phones have moved onto active and very effective voice interfaces with predictive AI features, but BMW is way too cheap to secure universal data connetivity for all cars to support any of that. Hack, they sold me an ///M3 in 2015 with a 3G modem that bricked itself within 5 years when AT&T shut-down its 3G network!

In the meantime, I'm only renting or buying cars that support CarPlay and AndroidAuto.
And upgraded my F80 with an aftermakret headunit that supports both CP and AA to bring F80 into the modern times.
Pretty much the only upgrade it ever needed. Now its more technologically advanced then my Tesla, though no thanks to BMW.

IMHO,
a

[BlkGS]

I think people hated the original iDrive not because of I drove, but because the cars were SO MUCH more complex. You look at the E39 vs the E60, or the E46 vs the E92, they MASSIVELY more complicated vehicles. BMW went from having a single butperfect chassis tuning to having selectable everything. Change suspension stiffness, change transmission shifting, change engine power... The cars went from get in, turn key, and drive to having to set the car up when you get in. You also added much more integration with phones, nav, sat radio, etc.

I always found the old versions of iDeive easy enough to use, but I could very much understand the gripe going from an e39 to an e60.

[Hi]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I'm not doubting or disregarding you, but what are you doing while driving that's this complicated?

I much prefer the knob to touch screen but I rarely use it outside of choosing a new album to listen to off of my plug-in USB drive. I do get into various settings but in the garage before I leave and rarely at that. I tend to be a "set it and forget it" kind of person so outside of things like stereo volume or climate temperature I don't really have much to adjust. So I'm genuinely curious what folks to 10 turns deep while driving?

When I hop in the car, I'll always say "Navigate to...." to start navigation. On my way to pick up the kid, there are two routes, (1) the route everyone drag races to the next traffic light after light after light; and (2) the scenic route which is a slower speed without lights. Google Maps always picks route #1, but if route two is similar ETA or a minute or so slower (not much more), then I'll switch to route #2 to relax and decompress.

Using the knob, I have to scroll pass the two navigation options, then the gear, speaker, perspective, hazards, +, -, x, to get to routes. I'm partially to blame because usually I lose count. So my back up is to press the icon. If there's a better way, I'm all ears.

[Westside Guy]

The article also mentioned they will continue with voice commands. Voice commands are useless if you’re driving a convertible with the top down!

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by Hi

If there's a better way, I'm all ears.

Nope, thanks, was just curious. I use Nav maybe once a month if that, and even then it's to make sure I don't miss a freeway exit in a part of town I haven't been to in a while. There's no right or wrong just different daily activities it seems.

[BMWbiker]

Originally Posted by xander_g

Agree. Hence my reluctance to touch touchscreens.

In my previous car, I kept a microfiber cloth in the storage area to the left of the steering wheel.

It’s gone from the current car, alas. I can still find a place for it, but that one was just right.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I always found the old versions of iDeive easy enough to use, but I could very much understand the gripe going from an e39 to an e60.

I'm guessing you never spent a lot of time with the "Original" iDrive, the one with the knob but not even a "menu" button. The one that didn't divide the screen into quadrants but into eight axis you had to negotiate with the knob while driving down a bumpy road. It evolved. It had to. We had to train people to even tune a radio station and in most cases the easiest thing for them was to simply say "FM 97.5" even on the earliest iDrive systems.

But the best iDrive was when BMW had the good sense to add the direct buttons around the knob for the most-used functions (c. 2010) and the row of programable buttons underneath the "MIDI" in the dashboard. I could always tell a car purchased from another store when they came to us for help and the programmable buttons were set to nothing or by accident. This was all prior to touch-screen.

Anyone remember when, during the height of the Pandemic, BMW was sending dealers those black "vampire" edition X5s without touch-screens? It seemed like even BMW didn't realize at first what they'd done and later offered something like a $500 credit. By that time everyone was so used to touch-screens that ordered $100k SAVs were refused without it.

[xander_g]

Originally Posted by BMWbiker

In my previous car, I kept a microfiber cloth in the storage area to the left of the steering wheel.

It’s gone from the current car, alas. I can still find a place for it, but that one was just right.

I do the same thing.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I think people hated the original iDrive not because of I drove, but because the cars were SO MUCH more complex. You look at the E39 vs the E60, or the E46 vs the E92, they MASSIVELY more complicated vehicles.

Realistically, it was a combination of both.

i-Drive first rolled out in 7-series, the car that has always had ridiculously too many buttons. So it made sense to try to centralize "fluff" features in one central location. Unfortunately, i-Drive way of doing that was anything but intuitive. It was about 2001 when it started with E65.

Note that the original iPhone hadn't come out until 2007, so everyone was still living in the world of BlackBerry and button phones, with smallish screen and upto full assortment of QWERTY keyboard buttons.

Yet post 2007, most automakers still dismissed touch screens as "not cool enough".
I remember Toyota providing low-end trims with small-ish touch screens while reserving button-controlled non-touch displays for high-end Lexus interior trims. BMW was doing something similar.

Then Tesla launched Model S in 2012, and monkey-see-monkey-do automotive industry soon followed suit.
All automakers suddenly started rolling out high-res touch screens. And positioning them within reach.

Then i-Drive button usage dropped, and so will the i-Drive button itself.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

BMW went from having a single but perfect chassis tuning to having selectable everything. Change suspension stiffness, change transmission shifting, change engine power...

Lets face it - the chassis was never "perfect".
It was always "too harsh" for some, and "too soft" for others.
Track guys upgraded the suspension to make it firmer (and unplugged things to disable DSC), soccer moms waited for shocks to die to make it softer.

Ability to adjust shock stiffness, DCT shift speed, traction control aggressiveness (or absence) - all have their customers.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The cars went from get in, turn key, and drive to having to set the car up when you get in. You also added much more integration with phones, nav, sat radio, etc.

Phone integration is definitely a Thing. Integration with audio streaming apps on your phone (Apple Music, Pandora, etc), real-time maps (Google, Apple) is way better than anything BMW could ever imagine or conjur up. Plus AA/CP stream your favorite artists inside the car and out, which is even better. So it's a net positive.

So are high-res navigation screens, which a significant improvement on fumbling with paper maps!

The only thing that is better than simple Nav screen is Nav that is integrated with Heads Up Display (HUD). That combo repeatedly saved my bacon when driving at night, in the rain, through too-narrow and too-curvy German back roads during ED.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I always found the old versions of iDrive easy enough to use, but I could very much understand the gripe going from an e39 to an e60.

Here is an article documenting the history of i-Drive.
The original no-button roller was a dud.
The one I have in F80 (roller + buttons + touch/write on top) is semi usable, though writing address one letter at a time is worthless. BMW never properly debugged voice recognition before connectivity went dead with 3G sunset (no LTE retrofits).

These days, my F80 roller hardly ever gets used after I have installed a proper touch screen in place of BMW display.

https://www.theautopian.com/bmw-does...-knob-anymore/

Originally Posted by BMWbiker

In my previous car, I kept a microfiber cloth in the storage area to the left of the steering wheel.
It’s gone from the current car, alas. I can still find a place for it, but that one was just right.

I keep my sunglasses in a microfiber pouch. Sad to hear that cubby hole has disappeared in more recent models. I'm not sure I will ever get to find out, as modern day BMW designs and value proposition have missed me by a mile.

Once every blue moon I clean the smudges off the screens in my cars, but no more often then I thoroughly clean the interiors of the vehicles.

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Anyone remember when, during the height of the Pandemic, BMW was sending dealers those black "vampire" edition X5s without touch-screens? It seemed like even BMW didn't realize at first what they'd done and later offered something like a $500 credit. By that time everyone was so used to touch-screens that ordered $100k SAVs were refused without it.

Missed that development, but makes sense.
The size and resolution of the screen is what dated my car the most. Even my wife had noticed.
It was an easy and relatively inexpensive fix. The underlying car is still great, and for <$500 has all the modern UI features courtesy of AA/CP.

Google/Apple are way better at infotainment value propositions and UIs than BMW or any other automaker will ever be. Not that this will stop them from trying.

a

[heavyD^2]

I will miss the scroll wheel and programmable numbered buttons. That was the best setup ever.