[jp1984]

I don't think it is really a pompous M owner thing.

Today I would say I have an M3 because I do.
Before I would say I had a 4 series M Sport, because that is what it was.

And I don't think I have ever met anyone that was really trying to flex on their car being an M and even if they did who cares?

Did they pick up your chick or something? Seems like a petty thing to whine over.

For what it is worth though I never considered my car an M car.

[CannibalOx]

Here is what I don't understand about badging the upper trim cars with an M; why not just use Tii? I know its an old school reference but I would think that most enthusiasts would understand it. I imagine that the M branding is designed to appeal to enthusiasts as most average people don't know the significance of M. Before my M2C, I had a M235 and I hated how much M branding that car had. Its was a great car and it was cool to get some of the bits of of the M2 but I always hated that it was adorned with M logo's like I would somehow believe that it was a 'true M car'.

As far as the M car purists acting pompous about it, yea there is some of that. For a lot of us its been a dream for a long time. The M badge being placed on everything kind of cheapens it a bit.

[540iSUP]

Originally Posted by MKParris

Im going with NO. Unless it has a distinct M-engine. It is not a real M (sorry OG M2).

This is how I feel. I think "True M" cars have the S series engines.

[mattinfll]

If you are true BMW enthusiast, you know what a true M car is. And you are not fooled by just the badging - so why does it matter. Today, M means more expensive, which is generally all the show offs care about. But the people who know, will still admire your "pure" M.

And why is BMW doing this? Because Mercedes is slapping AMG on everything above base, as Audi is doing with "S". It's all about how it looks on Instagram.

But stop buying Bimmers because of badging? Where are you going to go? Spend another $100K to $200K or more for an exotic? Who has a car in the price range that does what an M does, that doesn't have the same branding issues across thier product line?

By the way, I just ordered an X4 M40i. My first word as a child was "Mustang" (we debuted the same year), and I've been a car nut my whole life. I know exactly what I bought, and what I didn't. I didn't want to spend the extra cash, didn't want the harsher ride, and don't need to pretend I can race. But I still like a powerful engine and superior driving dynamics (compared to most cars out there). I'm not pretending to be anything. It's what BMW calls the car I want to drive right now. This is my 4th BMW, and hopefully not the last.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by mattinfll

If you are true BMW enthusiast, you know what a true M car is. And you are not fooled by just the badging - so why does it matter. Today, M means more expensive, which is generally all the show offs care about. But the people who know, will still admire your "pure" M.

And why is BMW doing this? Because Mercedes is slapping AMG on everything above base, as Audi is doing with "S". It's all about how it looks on Instagram.

But stop buying Bimmers because of badging? Where are you going to go? Spend another $100K to $200K or more for an exotic? Who has a car in the price range that does what an M does, that doesn't have the same branding issues across thier product line?

By the way, I just ordered an X4 M40i. My first word as a child was "Mustang" (we debuted the same year), and I've been a car nut my whole life. I know exactly what I bought, and what I didn't. I didn't want to spend the extra cash, didn't want the harsher ride, and don't need to pretend I can race. But I still like a powerful engine and superior driving dynamics (compared to most cars out there). I'm not pretending to be anything. It's what BMW calls the car I want to drive right now. This is my 4th BMW, and hopefully not the last.

Well said. As a long time BMW owner I have no problem with the M Sport models. It in no way cheapens my experience driving my M.

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by mattinfll

If you are true BMW enthusiast, you know what a true M car is. And you are not fooled by just the badging - so why does it matter. Today, M means more expensive, which is generally all the show offs care about. But the people who know, will still admire your "pure" M.

And why is BMW doing this? Because Mercedes is slapping AMG on everything above base, as Audi is doing with "S". It's all about how it looks on Instagram.

But stop buying Bimmers because of badging? Where are you going to go? Spend another $100K to $200K or more for an exotic? Who has a car in the price range that does what an M does, that doesn't have the same branding issues across thier product line?

By the way, I just ordered an X4 M40i. My first word as a child was "Mustang" (we debuted the same year), and I've been a car nut my whole life. I know exactly what I bought, and what I didn't. I didn't want to spend the extra cash, didn't want the harsher ride, and don't need to pretend I can race. But I still like a powerful engine and superior driving dynamics (compared to most cars out there). I'm not pretending to be anything. It's what BMW calls the car I want to drive right now. This is my 4th BMW, and hopefully not the last.

Concur. I like the suspension and body upgrades as well. All works within a manageable budget.

[Sxs1687]

Didn't BMW start naming some of their cars M340i M550i, X5 M50i, etc because the newer versions of these cars have engine components from the M division vs their previous models which were just 330i M sports or 550i M sports, etc? I thought that was the reasoning for throwing the M on the newer bigger engined models...

[r3dbimmer89]

Originally Posted by OSee

This is not true. Mercedes invented the formula that BMW is now using. And their enthusiast community was equally split.

Originally Posted by e92hunter

Audi at least labels it properly with A/S/RS, no one claims their S5 is built by the RS team which you are insinuating with AMG and their 53 AMG/43 AMG series.

Not true...Audi started the "Performance" trim back in the late 00's when they moved the B8 S4 down market to compete with the E90 335i. Before then, the RS models were like the CS versions of M cars. No one would've thought BMW's foray back in turbocharging would yield so much performance from the N54 engine.

Afterwards Audi proliferated their line-up with an "S-Line", "S", and "RS" trims. BMW and Merc saw the dollar value and follow suit like they usually do with everything... 3 Series Coupe turned into a 4 series a la A4/A5. X6 "SAC" yields a GLE "Coupe" then a Q8 "Coupe", etc., etc.

[carseatsm5]

Audi doing right by the RS owners by not splashing RS on everything. BMW and MB should have preserved the brand value of M and AMG in the same way. That of course is just one man’s opinion.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

The M folks at BMW took a car, did their things to it, and put an M on it. That makes it an M car. Just like anything else they work on and stick an M onto. 1M (because M1 had already been used), M3, M4, and so on.......This isn't rocket science. Why is this even an ongoing discussion?

Ego my friend. Half of those claiming a BMW designated M cars (M340i, M430i....) aren't "true" M cars, have old BMW's that any current (M, M-sport or standard) car destroys in every technical and performance arena. It's their ego that makes them rag on newer/better cars - regardless of the designation. A 335 from 2015, for example, will out perform any early M car. So, those with old M cars that were barely an upgrade from Audi or VW model, have to hold on to their BMW dream.

It has nothing to do with money. For example when I went in a few months ago to buy a new BMW there were almost zero cars available. It wouldn't matter what I wanted to buy, there was one X3 at three dealerships combined. I purchased it. I would be happy if BMW didn't put stripes and M logos all over my X3, but they did. They did because it is full of M technology and its a M spec'd BMW. Is it a M-Comp, no it is not. Will it destroy a 1990 or 2000 M3 - yes it, will in every way. Does that diminish a 2000 M3? No it does not. It merely speaks to how advanced all new BMW's are. They are all great cars and each one is different.

The constant need for some owners to separate themselves is both laughable and deplorable at the same time. Four of my last 6 cars were Porsche models. NEVER in my many years participating in Porsche rallys, track days, mystery tours or club events, did I find this much dissention and ego-driven separation between various model owners. All herein are here because they appreciate what BMW does better than most manufacturers. That should be enough.

At the end of the day, we all appreciate BMW automobiles. Whether you have an old BMW, a leased BMW, a BMW you own outright, or even if you ache or pine for your first BMW - you should be appreciated and welcome here. Unfortunately, I see more often that anyone disagreeing with the mainstream attacked by the 3-5 ass-hats herein that believe they are the sole arbiters of what it means to be BMW.

[Nlo96]

The M logo, says it all.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Nlo96

The M logo, says it all.

But does it? It's the M logo that is causing the debates.

I'm surprised this thread is still active, I thought we sorted out the history/legacy/use of the M logo pages back. The 'M' being used on models BEFORE the full fat M-cars.

[TAZ007]

At the end of the day does it really matter.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by TAZ007

At the end of the day does it really matter.

Obviously does to some BMW users, or the topic wouldn't be up to post #282

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Obviously does to some BMW users, or the topic wouldn't be up to post #282

Touche

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by skillets

COULDNT AGREE MORE! It frustrates me to see these said cars, let alone their owners who think they actually own a M car. I owned a 2017 x5m and my neighbors brother showed up one day bragging about his X5M. His X5 was actually just an M sport. He argued with me on and on. Little did he know I actually owned a real x5m and it was sitting in the garage next door. He was humbled very quickly!

It frustrates you? Why? Who cares?

So what if some people think they own an M car? Let them be proud, they should be. The new x5 m50I is faster than the X5M's from a few years ago anyways. So it's all perspective.

I've owned AMGs, M cars, M sports. Never had the need to humble someone. It's a vehicle.
The new m440i is almost as fast a the M4. The new c43 4matic is faster off the line in real world than the c63 RWD 0-100.

If you have an M sport/performance, go for it and consider it a M if it pleases you, BMW put the badge on there. They cost enough, and the technology is enough to clearly separate them from base models.

[Stronie]

It's not. M-Sport is an add on to the regular models. Additional aero, and other add on items.

'Real M Car's' are designed with that purpose, many many uncommon parts. Engine being the main one.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by Soporcogitavi

It frustrates you? Why? Who cares?

So what if some people think they own an M car? Let them be proud, they should be. The new x5 m50I is faster than the X5M's from a few years ago anyways. So it's all perspective.

I've owned AMGs, M cars, M sports. Never had the need to humble someone. It's a vehicle.
The new m440i is almost as fast a the M4. The new c43 xdrive is faster off the line in real world than the c63 RWD 0-100.

If you have an M sport, go for it and consider it a M if it pleases you, BMW put the badge on there. They cost enough, and the technology is enough to clearly separate them from base models.

Great post. Actually though, I've not seen "M-Sport" on anything. It's either a car marked M - or it's not. An M40i or M50i isn't marked "sport" anywhere I've seen. It's an M40i, M50i.... For some reason nay-sayers seem to think it has something to do with aero add-ons - and it doesn't. It has to do with all the M performance upgrades which is all that makes an M, an M. Some (M50i) have a few less M features and some (M5, M7...) have more. It's only a "thing" because some make it a thing. When they stop with the negativity, the thread will die. Until the next one. ..............

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Great post. Actually though, I've not seen "M-Sport" on anything. It's either a car marked M - or it's not. An M40i or M50i isn't marked "sport" anywhere I've seen. It's an M40i, M50i.... For some reason nay-sayers seem to think it has something to do with aero add-ons - and it doesn't. It has to do with all the M performance upgrades which is all that makes an M, an M. Some (M50i) have a few less M features and some (M5, M7...) have more. It's only a "thing" because some make it a thing. When they stop with the negativity, the thread will die. Until the next one. ..............

Of course it's not marked sport, I was referring to the M versions between base models and Full M. M Performance may be the better and more appropriate term as you pointed out, but you get what I mean. And absolutely agreed, the M is much more than just Aero add ons.

[LakeSurfer]

I'm not a bmw fan I just wanted a V8, manual, hard top convertible and the only one that met my criteria happens to be an e93 M3. By many standards it's not a "true" "m" car. Ok, whatever. Are my feelings hurt, lol, no. Do you feel better? I hope so.

That being said. I was told that M cars came about due to the races and race rules BMW was involved in. In order for them to race the car they had to have it in production and produce a certain amount of cars for the public. So BMW said fine, we don't want to deal with it but the big wig did and they said ok you can have your toy but keep it out of our hair, here's the car you get to use, do what you want and let us know if you wanna have lunch or something. Fast forward and the rules changed or loosened up and the M cars were a little more popular than BMW expected so they became more involved and started to have more lunches and dinners and maybe even a few one night stands with the M brand. Now they're in a full fledged dysfunctional marriage fighting over who does more laundry than the other one. M took off and merged into the main brand of BMW. And now we get watered down cats that are sort of race cars but designated for soccer moms and snotty middle aged men.

If this is true and I don't know if it is but I'm sure someone will correct me and belittle me for not caring or knowing what I'm talking about then none of us have TRUE M cars. unless you have one of the OG race cars, do you? Then you just have a car with a few cool features and a little logo on the trunk with 3 very cool contrasting colors.

M sport, CSL, fender flairs, humps on the hood, whatever, all you have is a car with a logo, no heritage or history just marketing lead by bean counters who are all just wanting to make a profit.

[wtwo3]

I'm curious to see impact on sales from the badge usage. Like has slapping m badging on non-m cars increased sales for the non m cars and/or has it cannibalized sales of m cars. Granted it's hard to capture that since there's multiple factors that have impacts on sales.

Between BMW, Audi and Mercedes, I feel like Audi has the best delineation (S vs. RS). BMW comes in 2nd with m340i vs. m3 etc. Mercedes on the other hand has sort of shot themselves in the foot. C43 amg has the same naming convention as the full blown C63 amg.

[DenverSteve]

Unfortunately, your logic is flawed. BMW only puts in badges on I am variants.