[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Yes, I agree - from forever alone to forever unhappy is a very gloomy prospect.




YES, I agree. I can make things light and fun if it happens once.

But as I said...

... it has happened a few times. How long do you keep it lighthearted and playful before you say "We need to have a word?" All in all, humor was (and is) my first response...

You make it fun and lighthearted every single time. If she actually says something hurtful, then you call her out on it on the spot, not wait for it to swell up and then have some conversation about your feelings later on. By having these ridiculous constructive feedback conversations you show that you lack confidence... which is one of the biggest turn offs.

[DETRoadster]

Ahhh, they had their first fight. He critiqued her and she flew off the handle over nothing, turned it around, and made it all his fault.

Welcome to the world of women, buddy. Next time it happens maybe you could ask her if she's being over emotional because she's on her period. Help her understand that logically speaking, women do tend to get a bit over emotional at that time. It's scientifically proven. But she may not be aware so you could help her see that and improve.

[antgenn]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Ahhh, they had their first fight. He critiqued her and she flew off the handle over nothing, turned it around, and made it all his fault.

Welcome to the world of women, buddy. Next time it happens maybe you could ask her if she's being over emotional because she's on her period. Help her understand that logically speaking, women do tend to get a bit over emotional at that time. It's scientifically proven. But she may not be aware so you could help her see that and improve.

Bravo!

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Hiya,

I meant to give you all an update a while back, but things were rather uneventful - i.e. I was, to some extent, waiting for an opportunity to bring up and discuss the topics in this this thread, but they didn't seem to re-occur...

Meanwhile, our interactions did "settle down" a little bit, and I think intensified from her side - she started calling me, she started inviting me for dinner and places... both on a planned schedule, and in an operational way... we shared, at least from my perspective, a lot of fun moments.

We also exchanged some opinions, where to me, she seems a little "touchy" when confronted with things she knows little/nothing about and I ask her for her opinion. She suggests that "You know so much more about so and so, so why am I asking her?". I explain to her that even though I may know more about something, that doesn't mean that her input is not valuable...

And, last week, she threw another, from my perspective harsh, remark (I am saying "another" since I am rather sensitive to this, it's not like she does it every day) - we were walking down the street (with nowhere to hurry to) and I was walking at my normal pace. She said: "Do we have to walk so fast?". I replied "Sure we don't, we have no where to rush to"... and we continued on our walk.

Later that evening, I decided to give her feedback, something along the lines of "Hey, I have a little open feedback to give you. When we were walking down the street earlier today, I think you said something along the lines of "Do we have to walk so fast?" and that sounded rather harsh to me."

We exchanged a few words (in a calm atmosphere) and I told her that I would find it nicer if she formulated her request in a way that would suggest what ought to be done, i.e.: "Can we please walk slower?"

I told her that such a request is "constructive" and elicits a "constructive" response, rather than her harsh tone and a response that must be defensive due to the way the question is formulated. I.e. her way of presenting her statement requires me to say "Yes or no" and defend why.

And, I cannot quite pinpoint the exact point or words, but our conversation soon went haywire. She started mentioning that "but we were in no rush" and then, later on, that we were in a rush, that's why she said nothing etc... basically, diverting from the case in hand (I did not want to discuss walking pace, etc., but rather HOW we communicated), to general statements on how she doesn't have the need to please everyone... to "Well, the people around me should get me, they shouldn't need me to explain myself"... to "So I'm ending this conversation right now". And so, I let her end the conversation.

???

Well, what can I say. Ultimately, I didn't feel heard - and, moreover, I didn't feel an effort to be heard. And, in addition, it doesn't seem like she was concerned about her behaviour - I mean, rather than saying thinks like "Yes, I see your viewpoint" or "How could I have acted better?" etc. we went down the rabbit hole of "Hey, I don't need to please everyone" and "Hey, people around me should get me" ====> in effect, "I'm not the one who needs to change" and "You're the weird one".

All in all, this is among the first times I have had such a conversation with her – to give her feedback on something I didn’t like, that has repeated itself. Being a constructive person, I expected a different conversation, but so be it.
I’m not giving up on her, but rather, I will try to have these conversations more openly and see if we can make some progress.

jesus christ

i didnt think this trainwreck could get worse, but it has.

i mean this as helpfully as possible, you are the problem, not her. "Do we have to walk so fast" isnt a harsh question and is something that people say all the time. Talking to her with your "constructive" criticism is way more harsh than that.

Do this poor girl a favor and either leave her alone or stop criticizing everything she does. she is correct, she doesnt need to change and you are the weird one

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Yes, I agree - from forever alone to forever unhappy is a very gloomy prospect.




YES, I agree. I can make things light and fun if it happens once.

But as I said...

... it has happened a few times. How long do you keep it lighthearted and playful before you say "We need to have a word?" All in all, humor was (and is) my first response...

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

this thread is so fucking toxic. id rather sit in a well alone for the rest of my life then put up with this.

[wren57]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

i didnt think this trainwreck could get worse, but it has.

i mean this as helpfully as possible, you are the problem, not her. "Do we have to walk so fast" isnt a harsh question and is something that people say all the time. Talking to her with your "constructive" criticism is way more harsh than that.

Do this poor girl a favor and either leave her alone or stop criticizing everything she does. she is correct, she doesnt need to change and you are the weird one

This.

OP, you're ridiculously sensitive and needy. Why would this woman, or any other woman, want to put themselves in your miserable company?

[No one]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

We also exchanged some opinions, where to me, she seems a little "touchy" when confronted with things she knows little/nothing about and I ask her for her opinion. She suggests that "You know so much more about so and so, so why am I asking her?". I explain to her that even though I may know more about something, that doesn't mean that her input is not valuable...

She's not exactly dumb and she doesn't want you to make a fool out of her: she lacks some extra confidence and she doesn't trust you.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

And, last week, she threw another, from my perspective harsh, remark (I am saying "another" since I am rather sensitive to this, it's not like she does it every day) - we were walking down the street (with nowhere to hurry to) and I was walking at my normal pace. She said: "Do we have to walk so fast?". I replied "Sure we don't, we have no where to rush to"... and we continued on our walk.

She may have found your behaviour harsh in many ways: making her run after you (in those high heels? ), overlooking she didn't find that comfortable, ignoring her wish to spend more time with you or even trying to escape. Contemplating instead of paying attention to her, in general. And if you didn't like her tone, that could be because of the physical effort she was making to keep up.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

I didn't feel an effort to be heard.

This is a repeated line, but this time she might have felt the same. A communication breakdown: she didn't want (felt uncomfortable?) to explain herself but you found that "unconstructive", expecting her to be more open than she is.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

"You're the weird one".

Well, you are.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

We were not walking fast, it was a frame of reference - we were walking at my normal pace, I guess hers is slower. On the other hand, she proceeded to walk "just as fast" on her own initiative later that afternoon without complaining...

She might have changed her mood and/or chosen the less damaging solution.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

I mean, does it sound friendly if your friends are constantly saying "Do you have to..." in a way suggesting that you doing are wrong? I don't think anyone could take that continually...

It's not necessarily suggesting it's wrong, it may be conveying it's uncomfortable for them while they don't expect you to care too much about their wishes.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

It would have been nicer to even ask "Why are we walking so fast..."

That would miss the point of conveying the wish: "Is it difficult to split an atom?" against "Just do it (if you can).".

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

major advice op:

I used to read into things like yourself very deeply...congruence tests all these "algorithms" to get women and be successful and tbh its mostly hogwash.

be yourself and the best version of yourself.

I honestly look like the biggest douce in the world. 6 foot tall, shredded and drive an M3 with an exhaust on it, but my personality is far from that. I fail "congruence tests" all the time because women expect me to be a gaping dick head and tbh I'm just not that guy and Idgaf. the dating scene is toxic, so either you will be yourself and be happy with that...or change yourself to fit in. There is no right answer, but at least on my end, I will attract what I am, versus what society and all these "congruence tests" and BS alpha sigma red pill trash thats flooding the mind of young men like ourselves.

you really need to find yourself man, it seems you are very confused and another person can't and will never save you

[Chihuahua]

OP, I'm going to recommend a great book to you. It's called "How To Be a 3% Man" by Corey Wayne. If you want to skip the book for now, watch a few of his videos on YouTube. Basically, you lack confidence, aren't centered, and are allowing your masculinity to be walked on. These are all MASSIVE turnoffs to women.

[D_o_S]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Ahhh, they had their first fight. He critiqued her and she flew off the handle over nothing, turned it around, and made it all his fault.

Welcome to the world of women, buddy. Next time it happens maybe you could ask her if she's being over emotional because she's on her period. Help her understand that logically speaking, women do tend to get a bit over emotional at that time. It's scientifically proven. But she may not be aware so you could help her see that and improve.

Yeah, sounds like exactly something I'd try... NOT. I have been in an argument with her on her period, and it was a rollercoaster, but I just stood my ground...

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

major advice op:

I used to read into things like yourself very deeply...congruence tests all these "algorithms" to get women and be successful and tbh its mostly hogwash.

be yourself and the best version of yourself.

I honestly look like the biggest douce in the world. 6 foot tall, shredded and drive an M3 with an exhaust on it, but my personality is far from that. I fail "congruence tests" all the time because women expect me to be a gaping dick head and tbh I'm just not that guy and Idgaf. the dating scene is toxic, so either you will be yourself and be happy with that...or change yourself to fit in. There is no right answer, but at least on my end, I will attract what I am, versus what society and all these "congruence tests" and BS alpha sigma red pill trash thats flooding the mind of young men like ourselves.

you really need to find yourself man, it seems you are very confused and another person can't and will never save you

Thank you! At least, yes, I do find myself to be "different" to everyone else, and now it's a question of "how much do I want to change to fit in" vs "how much do I want to remain myself to be myself"

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

OP, I'm going to recommend a great book to you. It's called "How To Be a 3% Man" by Corey Wayne. If you want to skip the book for now, watch a few of his videos on YouTube. Basically, you lack confidence, aren't centered, and are allowing your masculinity to be walked on. These are all MASSIVE turnoffs to women.

Thanks, read that already, it was recommended in this thread a while back.

---

On a general note, great replies that have made me think twice. Yes, I know I am over sensitive, over attentive and "want things done a certain way". So yes, as you guys say "Do we have to walk so fast" can be a normal thing to say... i.e. "Joe, do we have to walk so fast?" said in a playful tone... is something different to "Argh, do we have to walk so fast??"

In replying using humor - again, what I wrote here is all out of context, everyone seems to focus on what I have written in terms of my "constructive criticism" - we had a great time that day, and the days before (from my perspective) and we shared a lot of laughs both ways. I could have taken it one step further with this, sure, along the lines of "Well, I've got to go to church before I have lunch with the devil..." or something, I believe we both would have laughed.

Instead, I said something along the lines of "This is my normal walking speed, but sure, we can slow down".

[D_o_S]

Originally Posted by No one

She's not exactly dumb and she doesn't want you to make a fool out of her: she lacks some extra confidence and she doesn't trust you.

Yes, but I have never made a fool out of her... so I don't know why this should be the first time...

She may have found your behaviour harsh in many ways: making her run after you (in those high heels? ), overlooking she didn't find that comfortable, ignoring her wish to spend more time with you or even trying to escape. Contemplating instead of paying attention to her, in general. And if you didn't like her tone, that could be because of the physical effort she was making to keep up.

Yes, it was more a question of tone than of the actual words.


This is a repeated line, but this time she might have felt the same. A communication breakdown: she didn't want (felt uncomfortable?) to explain herself but you found that "unconstructive", expecting her to be more open than she is.

Good point, and so how do I proceed?



Well, you are.



She might have changed her mood and/or chosen the less damaging solution.



It's not necessarily suggesting it's wrong, it may be conveying it's uncomfortable for them while they don't expect you to care too much about their wishes.



That would miss the point of conveying the wish: "Is it difficult to split an atom?" against "Just do it (if you can).".

What a constructive post given my constructive criticism.

All in all, the question I guess that remains - and that haunts me - is, do I give into words AT ALL? I mean, it seems to me like the less serious I am, and the less I look into her comments, maybe the better? In a sense, IDGAF.

I mean, I look at speach as a way of self expression - if she says she's hot/cold/angry/disappointed, yeah, I think that that's a signal "To do something". But, maybe I should just do it (if possible) and then disregard?

So, first response is funny, second is serious and third is standing my ground?

I.e.:
H: Why are we walking so fast?
M: I've got to make it to church before lunch with the devil...
H: Yeah, well one of your strides takes two of mine...
M: Sure, I'll meet you with my half-strides then...
H: Yeah, well, that's no good, I mean what is all the rush for anyways?
H: There is no rush...

[Watching The World Burn]

I just know DETRoadster is thrilled to bits that this thread is alive again.

To be honest, I think we all secretly enjoy watching a train wreck. Especially in the slow motion that this thread provides.

I have nothing further to contribute at the moment. But I've subscribed.

[CTinline-six]

Both have issues. You either figure out how to accept/deal with them or move on. Pretty simple.

Personally I couldn't be with someone who critiques every little thing. Life is too short to always be followed by a dark rain cloud in every situation. People who turn little problems into big ones usually have bigger things going on mentally.

[No one]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

What a constructive post given my constructive criticism.

Trying to speak your own language.

Originally Posted by D_o_S

All in all, the question I guess that remains - and that haunts me - is, do I give into words AT ALL? I mean, it seems to me like the less serious I am, and the less I look into her comments, maybe the better? In a sense, IDGAF.

I mean, I look at speach as a way of self expression - if she says she's hot/cold/angry/disappointed, yeah, I think that that's a signal "To do something". But, maybe I should just do it (if possible) and then disregard?

So, first response is funny, second is serious and third is standing my ground?

I.e.:
H: Why are we walking so fast?
M: I've got to make it to church before lunch with the devil...
H: Yeah, well one of your strides takes two of mine...
M: Sure, I'll meet you with my half-strides then...
H: Yeah, well, that's no good, I mean what is all the rush for anyways?
H: There is no rush...

Women must be way too simpler than you can imagine. Why are they crazy about obvious morons? Because those are just simple enough, I guess. Some cross-threading:

.

[ezaircon4jc]

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by No one

Trying to speak your own language.



Women must be way too simpler than you can imagine. Why are they crazy about obvious morons? Because those are just simple enough, I guess. Some cross-threading:...

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

[

All in all, the question I guess that remains - and that haunts me - is, do I give into words AT ALL? I mean, it seems to me like the less serious I am, and the less I look into her comments, maybe the better? In a sense, IDGAF.



So, first response is funny, second is serious and third is standing my ground?

I.e.:
H: Why are we walking so fast?
M: I've got to make it to church before lunch with the devil...
H: Yeah, well one of your strides takes two of mine...
M: Sure, I'll meet you with my half-strides then...
H: Yeah, well, that's no good, I mean what is all the rush for anyways?
H: There is no rush...

The first part, I swear we answered this 10 pages ago.

The bolded part. You've got to find a hobby or something better to focus your time on. You just made up a whole scenario and are hyper focusing on something so small. I mean I give you an award for perseverance.

Is this the same chick who wanted nothing to do with you physically? If so, I hope you at least crossed that barrier for all of this mess.

Relationships can be complicated but if this is your complication, fucking run. If you can't get past something so small then I don't see a positive outlook on the longevity of this.

[rebekahb]

For the love of God, why did I even respond

[Darth One]

The fact that the two of you still spend time with each other tells me that you’re actually kind of addicted to this particular brand of toxicity

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Darth One

The fact that the two of you still spend time with each other tells me that you’re actually kind of addicted to this particular brand of toxicity

I'm more surprised they haven't killed each other at this point.

Although he'd probably post in here as hes being stabbed asking us if him trying to tell her she is stabbing him in a confrontational way upset her and wondering why she was upset when he was just trying to help.

[KevinC]

Be careful out there boys..