[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Unfortunately, your logic is flawed. BMW only puts in badges on I am variants.

The logic is sound.... but it seems like you're focusing on semantics.

To make you happy, how about I rephrase:

I'm curious to see the impact and relationship of sales between m340i vs. m3 (and other segments like m550i vs. m5, x3m40i vs. x3m, etc) in comparison to days when the m badge was reserved for the m3/m5/m6 etc only, and the 340i/550i/650i were without the "m" before the model name.

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

The logic is sound.... but it seems like you're focusing on semantics.

To make you happy, how about I rephrase:

I'm curious to see the impact and relationship of sales between m340i vs. m3 (and other segments like m550i vs. m5, x3m40i vs. x3m, etc) in comparison to days when the m badge was reserved for the m3/m5/m6 etc only, and the 340i/550i/650i were without the "m" before the model name.

In other words, a comparison between M performance cars vs M cars.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by TAZ007

In other words, a comparison between M performance cars vs M cars.

Yes... but shhhh.... that seems to upset people.

The point here is, there's obviously a difference between an m340i and an m3. The m340i was formerly the 340i. The M3 was formerly.... the M3. My question is, what sort of impact to sales has adding the "m" in front of 340i done to both the m340i and the m3, compared to previous iterations where it was just 340i and m3.

It's more a rhetorical question... Things I wonder about. I don't expect an actual answer.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

My question is, what sort of impact to sales has adding the "m" in front of 340i done to both the m340i and the m3, compared to previous iterations where it was just 340i and m3.

It's more a rhetorical question... Things I wonder about. I don't expect an actual answer.

I simply see it as "choice". Not everyone wants the M3, the middle ground is a definite market place. Evident by quite a few users who chose to have the performance packages added to the F30 340i.

Better to have an M-Lite from the factory? I suggest it is, for many users. BMW also appear to think so.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I simply see it as "choice". Not everyone wants the M3, the middle ground is a definite market place. Evident by quite a few users who chose to have the performance packages added to the F30 340i.

Better to have an M-Lite from the factory? I suggest it is, for many users. BMW also appear to think so.

Yeah so that begs the question.... is the m30i stealing sales away from the G80 M3 compared to the 340i vs. the F80 M3?

Doesn't help that the design of the G80 is wildly different from the G20.. which is why this'll probably remain a rhetorical question

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Yes... but shhhh.... that seems to upset people.

The point here is, there's obviously a difference between an m340i and an m3. The m340i was formerly the 340i. The M3 was formerly.... the M3. My question is, what sort of impact to sales has adding the "m" in front of 340i done to both the m340i and the m3, compared to previous iterations where it was just 340i and m3.

It's more a rhetorical question... Things I wonder about. I don't expect an actual answer.

Ok, but it is the trickle down effect.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Yeah so that begs the question.... is the m30i stealing sales away from the G80 M3 compared to the 340i vs. the F80 M3?

Doesn't help that the design of the G80 is wildly different from the G20.. which is why this'll probably remain a rhetorical question

I'm sure BMW know what they are doing, they'll have their profit margins worked out, which ever model they sell.

Could mean the M-cars are more exclusive... a good thing?

[bobowar135]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm sure BMW know what they are doing, they'll have their profit margins worked out, which ever model they sell.

Could mean the M-cars are more exclusive... a good thing?

It could also mean that the M cars are less desireable because people can buy an M-badged car for less than a true M car.
What BMW are doing may be good for their bottom line but I believe that they are diluting the M brand by slapping M badges on cars willy-nilly.

[Chihuahua]

Wow, 14 pages of this? This thread has serious legs.

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

Wow, 14 pages of this? This thread has serious legs.

And they must be stretched from time to time.

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by bobowar135

It could also mean that the M cars are less desireable because people can buy an M-badged car for less than a true M car.
What BMW are doing may be good for their bottom line but I believe that they are diluting the M brand by slapping M badges on cars willy-nilly.

"Slapping M badges on cars"? Most of these cars with "slapped on M badges" are hitting 0-60 in 4 secs, have sport tuned suspension and are producing close 400hp, not to mention they are handily out performing previous "pure M" models. If that's not worthy of an M badge not sure what is.

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

M cars are not all about horsepower and performance, there's more to a car than 0-60...

Have you driven the M340i? That car isn't just about HP, it offers so much more. That's just one example amongst many (m440i, m550i, etc).

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

...a new Accord is faster than an E30 M3, doesn't make either car a proper sports sedan.

Very true. Does this now mean that a Honda Accord also counts as an M car?

Discuss.

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

M cars are not all about horsepower and performance, there's more to a car than 0-60...

Most modern cars are outperforming older performance vehicles. Engine technology and tires have become more advanced every year. Hell a Nissan Altima outperformed a G20 330i on Car and Driver's skidpad and a new Accord is faster than an E30 M3, doesn't make either car a proper sports sedan.

Do you consider your CLS 53 a proper sports sedan, even though it's not a 63? I'm playing Devils advocate of course. Proper sports sedan to you is dependent on your definition. Anyone who claims the M badged (m340, m440, m550) cars are not proper sports sedans are disconnected.

[D22M2]

Only d**kholes care about sh*t like this

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by D22M2

Only d**kholes care about sh*t like this

I would have to agree with you. I'm not sure what's with the hate towards "non real M cars"

Silliness.

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Yes, I even made a whole review on here when the car first came out. I have also extensively driven the M550i (which was incredibly disappointing). It had the same boring chassis as my 540i just with a better engine. Like I said for the M340i in other threads, its a great car, but I don't consider it an M vehicle.

I consider it a luxury vehicle with some sporty handling and characteristics, which is why I got it. I don't consider it an AMG though and have even de-badged the AMG badging on the rear of the car.

Well d-badge away. It's a shame you feel the need to do so. After all the ultimate authority on the vehicle (the manufacturer) put the badge there themselves.

[bobowar135]

Originally Posted by Soporcogitavi

"Slapping M badges on cars"? Most of these cars with "slapped on M badges" are hitting 0-60 in 4 secs, have sport tuned suspension and are producing close 400hp, not to mention they are handily out performing previous "pure M" models. If that's not worthy of an M badge not sure what is.

I'm bagging BMW's marketing strategy, not the cars, relax.

[Soporcogitavi]

Originally Posted by bobowar135

I'm bagging BMW's marketing strategy, not the cars, relax.

I wasn't aware that I was not relaxed. But to your point BMW's marketing strategy seems to be working pretty well.

[ZL9M2]

The M badge used to be reserved for the truly special cars produced by BMW. Now its just thrown about as a marketing tool. No doubt it has helped them sell cars; "Look at my M car", but it has diluted the M brand.

[Germanauto]

At BMW's Ultimate Driving Event, the driving instructors straight up say that the M performance cars were are driving are not actual M division products, and that the M division are "a completely different animal" to quote on of them directly.

On a side note, I saw an X1 the other day with factor M badges and the owner even put an M plate. Stuff like this is what drove me away from BMW. This company is more interested in marketing a perceived image to badge enthusiasts instead of producing driver's cars for car enthusiasts.

All the BMW "enthusiasts" I know in real life are actually clueless about cars. They'll buy anything BMW makes as long as they can flaunt the perceived imaged that comes along with it. Complete turn-off.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by ZL9M2

The M badge used to be reserved for the truly special cars produced by BMW. Now its just thrown about as a marketing tool. No doubt it has helped them sell cars; "Look at my M car", but it has diluted the M brand.

I would be more worried about how BMW is ruining the M cars by making each generation into a bigger boat. The M3s are now bigger than the old M5s. Even my M2 is about the same size as my old E46 M3. The larger M cars have lost the connected and responsive feel of their older siblings.