[KRS_SN]

If you want a real world (not wltp) trip of 60 miles you need 4.5kg of fuel.
Want 600 miles. That'll be 45kg fuel sir. Ok and add in a 300kg for the engine and gearbox etc ie 345 kg for 600 miles and 5 minutes to fill.

Want an ev capable of either 60 miles or 600 miles that'll be 1 tonne of weight for the battery plus 150kg for the motors sir

And you'll need to charge for hours to get those 600 miles.

Who is interested...

[RM7]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Lithium and cobalt mining is very damaging to the environment and extremely water and land intensive.

Like this?

Oh wait, those are tar-sands.

They are using non-lithium-intensive batteries where possible, there's an entire new generation of EVs being used with that technology and several available right now. This isn't the "problem" that many are making it out to be. Sure, there are environmental and other issues for any extraction, but several sources are available and technology is working to provide decent alternatives.

[AmuroRay]

I heard the megachargers for the Tesla semi require more power than what's required for a house for 1 month.

Any truth to this ?

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

I sell these batteries and have be racing them in RC for more years than Tesla has been in existence. I have forgotten more about LiPo batteries than most EV'ers think they know.

If you can ignore the environmental impact of these batteries then you are a world class idiot and your name isn't Greta.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

If you want a real world (not wltp) trip of 60 miles you need 4.5kg of fuel.
Want 600 miles. That'll be 45kg fuel sir. Ok and add in a 300kg for the engine and gearbox etc ie 345 kg for 600 miles and 5 minutes to fill.

Want an ev capable of either 60 miles or 600 miles that'll be 1 tonne of weight for the battery plus 150kg for the motors sir

And you'll need to charge for hours to get those 600 miles.

Who is interested...

might want to read up on the latest news about EV's and the battery tech...

like I said, EV's are still in their infancy and tech moves fast.


https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-evs...-recharge-time

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I sell these batteries and have be racing them in RC for more years than Tesla has been in existence. I have forgotten more about LiPo batteries than most EV'ers think they know.

If you can ignore the environmental impact of these batteries then you are a world class idiot and your name isn't Greta.

if you are trying to equate the latest car battery technology to your toys, you might be the idiot


keep lapping up all that big oil nonsense...they need more sheep like you


Read the article and quit worrying about your girlfriend Gretta

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by RM7

Like this?
Oh wait, those are tar-sands.

Tar Sands are natural occurring Geologic formations. Heard of the La Brea Tar Pits?

Exactly what do you plan on drive your environment killing EV on? Fairy Farts?

It's called bitumen.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

if you are trying to equate the latest car battery technology to your toys, you might be the idiot

We have been getting way more out put from these batteries than any EV company could afford to. We equalize individual cells which is way beyond what any EV company can do and we have temperature controlled discharges and charge cycles to maximize voltage. We log internal resistance to determine performance, no EV company does that.

Yes they are small cars but “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.”

[gblansten]

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/09/10/...ough-chargers/


Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm looks at electric vehicles during a visit to the Washington Auto Show in Washington. Andrew Harnik/AP

The U.S. secretary of energy went on a road trip to promote electric vehicles.
Jennifer Granholm and her team ran into a predictable snag: a lack of EV chargers.
The obstacle even caused the police to get involved at one point in the trip, NPR reported.

When the U.S. secretary of energy and her team embarked on a road trip to promote electric vehicles, they ran into a predictable yet frustrating obstacle: a lack of electric vehicle chargers.

Indeed, there are only about three electric vehicle charging ports for every 10,000 people in the United States, Insider reported in April.

The scarcity of chargers was such an issue for Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm and her team that the police got involved at one point, NPR reported.

The caravan of electric vehicles heading from Charlotte to Memphis over the course of four days hit a snag in Grovestown, Georgia. The group was planning a quick charge when they realized there wouldn't be enough electric vehicle chargers to go around since one was broken and the others were in use, NPR reported.

So an employee from the Department of Energy tried to save one of the spots using a gas-powered car.

It was a sweltering day and the move didn't go over well with a family that was also waiting for a charging spot. The situation escalated to the point that the family, driving with a baby in their car, called the police, who didn't have the authority to act because blocking an EV charging spot with a gas-power car isn't illegal in Georgia, NPR reported.

While Granholm and her team worked to smooth things over, ultimately ceding a spot to the family and relegating some of their own vehicles to slower charging ports, the incident drew attention to the desperate need for improved EV infrastructure.

"It's just par for the course," a bystander driving an electric BMW told NPR. "They'll get it together at some point."

The US needs to get its s**t together and build out an EV charging infrastructure. It can't all be left to Tesla as there will need to be competition in that space.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

keep lapping up all that big oil nonsense...they need more sheep like you

I have a unique background here. I grew up a outdoors person and and environmentalist. I went to school in Earth Sciences, specifically stratigraphy so in other words locating oil and gas. Most of my earning years were in the bicycle, ski and outdoor industry, again environmentalist. I started racing RC cars in the 80's and have been through the progressing of battery technology from cadmium, NiMH, LiFe, and LiPo so I consider myself well informed. I started a internet company back in the 80's that handles these batteries and the chargers. These parts of my background are why I have a passionate dislike about LiPo powered cars of all sizes. The bigger the car the bigger the environmental damage.
Have you ever personally been to a open pit mine? Have you experienced the ground water run off from such a mine in a country that does give a "f" about the environment? Don't get me started on the child labor, modern slavery used to mine these ores.

Any time you EV'er are trying to spread your pixie dust around about how wonderful your "TOY" is, plan on me and others bringing the facts.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

will planes become electric. will the army rely on electric tanks?

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I have a unique background here. I grew up a outdoors person and and environmentalist. I went to school in Earth Sciences, specifically stratigraphy so in other words locating oil and gas. Most of my earning years were in the bicycle, ski and outdoor industry, again environmentalist. I started racing RC cars in the 80's and have been through the progressing of battery technology from cadmium, NiMH, LiFe, and LiPo so I consider myself well informed. I started a internet company back in the 80's that handles these batteries and the chargers. These parts of my background are why I have a passionate dislike about LiPo powered cars of all sizes. The bigger the car the bigger the environmental damage.
Have you ever personally been to a open pit mine? Have you experienced the ground water run off from such a mine in a country that does give a "f" about the environment? Don't get me started on the child labor, modern slavery used to mine these ores.

Any time you EV'er are trying to spread your pixie dust around about how wonderful your "TOY" is, plan on me and others bringing the facts.

the article in MT i posted pretty much explains it in balck and white, but you still deny it becuse you race RC cars back in the 80's

there are a bunch of "facts" in this, but I'm sure you consider it false becuse you have an agenda...

How do you dispute any of this?

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...being-lied-to/

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

will planes become electric. will the army rely on electric tanks?

Nope and nope. Shipping vessels? Nope. Locomotives? Nope. Semi trucks. Nope. Will many of these vehicles eventually use hybrid type system? Absolutely.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Nope and nope. Shipping vessels? Nope. Locomotives? Nope. Semi trucks. Nope. Will many of these vehicles eventually use hybrid type system? Absolutely.

pretty much already have all of those

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

might want to read up on the latest news about EV's and the battery tech...

like I said, EV's are still in their infancy and tech moves fast.


https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-evs...-recharge-time

Not really ..
There's hardly any improvement in battery tech yet. Model 3 was out in 2017. Now in 2024 yet to be out highland model 3 its supposed to be 11% more efficient. Its very poor.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

there are a bunch of "facts" in this, but I'm sure you consider it false becuse you have an agenda.

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

The article acknowledged some of the issue but fails to qualify them especially in the mining and processing of the ore. Not to mention the issue of peek Lithium. Read up on the processing of lithium. Also the cost of recycling batteries is not addressed. Black Mass has not yet become financially viable to separate out minerals.

FACTS:
To manufacture each EV battery, you must process
25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium
30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt
5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel
25,000 pounds of ore for copper
Digging up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust. Do you understand the term overburden, ground water contamination? I'll bet the people trying to live around these mines and processing plants do.

More FACTS:
The lithium extraction process uses a lot of water—approximately 500,000 gallons per metric ton of lithium. To extract lithium, miners drill a hole in salt flats and pump salty, mineral-rich brine to the surface. After several months the water evaporates, leaving a mixture of manganese, potassium, borax and lithium salts which is then filtered and placed into another evaporation pool. After between 12 and 18 months of this process, the mixture is filtered sufficiently that lithium carbonate can be extracted.

South America’s Lithium Triangle, which covers parts of Argentina, Bolivia and Chile, holds more than half the world’s supply of the metal beneath its salt flats. But it is also one of the driest places on earth. In Chile’s Salar de Atacama, mining activities consumed 65 percent of the region’s water, which is having a large impact on local farmers to the point that some communities have to get water elsewhere.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

The article acknowledged some of the issue but fails to qualify them especially in the mining and processing of the ore. Not to mention the issue of peek Lithium. Read up on the processing of lithium. Also the cost of recycling batteries is not addressed. Black Mass has not yet become financially viable to separate out minerals.

FACTS:
To manufacture each EV battery, you must process
25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium
30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt
5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel
25,000 pounds of ore for copper
Digging up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust. Do you understand the term overburden, ground water contamination? I'll bet the people trying to live around these mines and processing plants do.

More FACTS:
The lithium extraction process uses a lot of water—approximately 500,000 gallons per metric ton of lithium. To extract lithium, miners drill a hole in salt flats and pump salty, mineral-rich brine to the surface. After several months the water evaporates, leaving a mixture of manganese, potassium, borax and lithium salts which is then filtered and placed into another evaporation pool. After between 12 and 18 months of this process, the mixture is filtered sufficiently that lithium carbonate can be extracted.

South America’s Lithium Triangle, which covers parts of Argentina, Bolivia and Chile, holds more than half the world’s supply of the metal beneath its salt flats. But it is also one of the driest places on earth. In Chile’s Salar de Atacama, mining activities consumed 65 percent of the region’s water, which is having a large impact on local farmers to the point that some communities have to get water elsewhere.

Out of sight, out of mind, haven’t this been abundently clear to the Pro EV crowds?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

love my gas burners, but smart enough to realize the reality....EV's are not the devil, despite big oil's fake studies and fake stories that tell you they are.

here is a great article by Motor Trend that breaks it down for you and who is behind all of the ignorance being spewed on here about EV's....not hard to figure out why they are doing it, but obviously it is working on some...




You're Being Lied to About Electric Cars

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...being-lied-to/

Fine, another environmental argument for EV. Great. If we're all concerned about our kids environmental future, the kids are going to get fucked first by the economic impact way before any change is made to the climate.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

The article acknowledged some of the issue but fails to qualify them especially in the mining and processing of the ore. Not to mention the issue of peek Lithium. Read up on the processing of lithium. Also the cost of recycling batteries is not addressed. Black Mass has not yet become financially viable to separate out minerals.

FACTS:
To manufacture each EV battery, you must process
25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium
30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt
5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel
25,000 pounds of ore for copper
Digging up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust. Do you understand the term overburden, ground water contamination? I'll bet the people trying to live around these mines and processing plants do.

More FACTS:
The lithium extraction process uses a lot of water—approximately 500,000 gallons per metric ton of lithium. To extract lithium, miners drill a hole in salt flats and pump salty, mineral-rich brine to the surface. After several months the water evaporates, leaving a mixture of manganese, potassium, borax and lithium salts which is then filtered and placed into another evaporation pool. After between 12 and 18 months of this process, the mixture is filtered sufficiently that lithium carbonate can be extracted.

South America’s Lithium Triangle, which covers parts of Argentina, Bolivia and Chile, holds more than half the world’s supply of the metal beneath its salt flats. But it is also one of the driest places on earth. In Chile’s Salar de Atacama, mining activities consumed 65 percent of the region’s water, which is having a large impact on local farmers to the point that some communities have to get water elsewhere.

As I said earlier, there are 1Billion ICE vehicles on the planet. Can you imagine the impact trying to convert them all to EV? The environmental impact will be staggering. I'm sure one of the folks on here who are much smarter than me can put it into terms we can all wrap our heads around.

[M5Rick]

I imagined I have an EV and it was charging in the garage overnight, (because there is a spate of charge cable thefts if left outside garage). So one night when it was charging I had a nightmare and then woke up covered in sweat but then remembered my garage is detached from the house and my heart rate stabilised.

[gonzo]

icgreenpeople

[Car-Addicted]

Peak Lithium? IMO a very honest appraisal of types of lithium and its availability.
Lithium Demand Could Triple by 2025. Does the World Have Enough?
There are two main lithium compounds today: lithium carbonate and lithium hydroxide. The former is typically produced from brine deposits (namely those in South America), while the latter is typically produced from rock deposits (primarily those in Western Australia).
In the six-year period spanning 2019 to 2025, Albemarle expects global lithium production to jump 220% and global lithium demand to jump 263%.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/...the-world.aspx

I hope these snippets will engage you enough to read this article. I find the financial guys are less driven by ideology and more by ROI or as you communists like to call it, Greed.
Note that the tendency of mining is the cost increases in directly relation deposit draw down.
One other point. I was in Geology school during the fight over strip mining. I have been to many a strip mine and I have seen the worst. There was a push to land reclamation as part of the permitting process in the 80's and IMO they have been very positive. I'm sure there is no such plan in south America.