[marcva]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

M1 sedan please w/S58 and option for xDrive. Thanks!

Will settle for the B58, or just a M140i sedan.

1 series is FWD, you're looking for a 2 series sedan/GC (depending on what shape they make the trunk). Not until 2 series refresh in 2019 at best, so still not likely at the forefront of the press briefings. Expect more trucks in the short term which BMW is using to fund electrification (from another article read elsewhere on the web).

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

Wanted to see a token performance car in the pipeline, but sadly he's more proud of those tepid "Town and Country" SUVs.

Vinyl-wood siding an option for the new target demographic?

I was in a loaner X3 last week. Even my wife remarked that it drove like an old Buick while my neighbor shared his opinion about the startlingly ugly aesthetics. I also drove a mint E46 M3. The visceral "Motorsport" sport-sedan experience that defined the marque seems like a distant memory now. Sadly I doubt "M" still resides in the corporate DNA. Those responsible are long gone.

Maybe BMW ought to re-brand as Germany's lesser version of America's Jeep?

The typical "drove like an old Buick" remark from another individual that is totally ignorant to what they were actually driving. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the X3 28i loaner without any performance options.

Once again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Dethsupp0rt]

Originally Posted by marcva

1 series is FWD, you're looking for a 2 series sedan/GC (depending on what shape they make the trunk). Not until 2 series refresh in 2019 at best, so still not likely at the forefront of the press briefings. Expect more trucks in the short term which BMW is using to fund electrification (from another article read elsewhere on the web).

They have an M140i in Europe, which is RWD, but it's a silly hatch.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I think such a car (along with the confirmed X3M) will be awesome. Hope they build it.

2 year wait for the F97. I can't wait for that to come to market. Let's hope BMW sticks to what they said. The X2 should be a big seller and the X2M/X3M will be the real deal. X3 is BMW's 3rd highest selling model. X2 should sell like crazy as well like the X1.

I guess all the chat in the previous thread is the fake news. Model reduction my a$$

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

They have an M140i in Europe, which is RWD, but it's a silly hatch.

And it's also the last RWD 1 Series. Its replacement, the new F40 five-door 1 Series coming in 2019 will be UKL based, so it will be FWD and AWD just like the new F52 1 Series sedan. The F41 three-door will follow soon after. The equivalent of today's I6 powered M140i will be an I4 powered M135i with similar power output (>300hp). Unlike today's M140i it will be AWD only. Lower models (12*) will be offered with a choice of FWD or AWD, while the lowest models (11*) will be FWD only.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by kozzi

2 year wait for the F97. I can't wait for that to come to market. Let's hope BMW sticks to what they said. The X2 should be a big seller and the X2M/X3M will be the real deal. X3 is BMW's 3rd highest selling model. X2 should sell like crazy as well like the X1.

I guess all the chat in the previous thread is the fake news. Model reduction my a$$

I absolutely agree - the X2M would be a nice alternative for those who want a smaller M car with AWD - I know folks have talked about that coming to the M5 and eventually M3/4, but I can't imagine you'd see an AWD M2 ever.

I also like the overall proportions of the X1 - you smooth out the roofline, give it some nice wide tires, an aggressive stance and front fascia, man that thing could be killer.

It wouldn't look as "good" as an M2GC would look, but it would fill that gap for a lot of people wanting a smallish M car with a bit of utility. I would definitely be interested.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by kozzi

I guess all the chat in the previous thread is the fake news. Model reduction my a$$

That thread turned into a flood of ill-conceived speculation because the message the article in the OP was subsequently ignored by many. If a model is stagnant or in decline (which means any SUV is safe) or not catching on in China (which means anything one can be chauffeured in or anything weird is safe), it's at the very least going to be put under serious scrutiny before being renewed for another generation.

By the way, the forty models coming this year and next include all trim levels. So for example the 520d, 530i, 540i, 530d, 530e, and M550i, constitute six models already. Add in the X2, X3, 6 Series GT, Mini models, etc, and it'll no doubt get up to forty pretty quickly. The only thing truly new is the X2, which goes right along with the push for more SUVs (which will come at the expense of models which offer less utility and which today's consumer is moving away from).

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I absolutely agree - the X2M would be a nice alternative for those who want a smaller M car with AWD - I know folks have talked about that coming to the M5 and eventually M3/4, but I can't imagine you'd see an AWD M2 ever.

I also like the overall proportions of the X1 - you smooth out the roofline, give it some nice wide tires, an aggressive stance and front fascia, man that thing could be killer.

It wouldn't look as "good" as an M2GC would look, but it would fill that gap for a lot of people wanting a smallish M car with a bit of utility. I would definitely be interested.

I agree that we will never see an M2/M2GC XDrive. That being said, I'll go out on a limb and say that the M4 will also remain as RWD only and that the M3 will be offered with/or only XDrive, along with the M5 on up all being XDrive only. This would be the direction I see things going as the 3er and 4er evolve more along their separate ways. I hope they will eventually bring the 4GC over as a 3GC and keep the 4ers 2 doors only.

A X1M/X2M would be killer indeed. I could see down the road, an X2M 2 door coupe with rear-wheel bias XDrive. That thing would be a big city dwelling beast. In the meantime, I'll have to make due with an X3M.

[mkoesel]

My crystal ball says everything is going AWD eventually except possibly small city cars. However, this probably happens in the post-ICE, multi-emotor era so we have some time yet. I would not count out a move to UKL (or a FWD platform to succeed it, yet to arrive) for the 2 Series passenger car lineup before that time though. If that happens, the M model will go AWD then by necessity.

Two door SUVs are also not happening anymore (except the Wrangler at least for a little longer, and the rare convertible luxury SUV here or there). Even two-door passenger car sales (I mean those with four seats - two seaters are on a slightly different trajectory) are in slow but sure decline. Four door coupes and five-door coupe-like hatchbacks are to the next generation of buyer what coupes are to today's generation.

Originally Posted by kozzi

I agree that we will never see an M2/M2GC XDrive. That being said, I'll go out on a limb and say that the M4 will also remain as RWD only and that the M3 will be offered with/or only XDrive, along with the M5 on up all being XDrive only. This would be the direction I see things going as the 3er and 4er evolve more along their separate ways. I hope they will eventually bring the 4GC over as a 3GC and keep the 4ers 2 doors only.

A X1M/X2M would be killer indeed. I could see down the road, an X2M 2 door coupe with rear-wheel bias XDrive. That thing would be a big city dwelling beast. In the meantime, I'll have to make due with an X3M.

[kozzi]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

That thread turned into a flood of ill-conceived speculation because the message the article in the OP was subsequently ignored by many. If a model is stagnant or in decline (which means any SUV is safe) or not catching on in China (which means anything one can be chauffeured in or anything weird is safe), it's at the very least going to be put under serious scrutiny before being renewed for another generation.

By the way, the forty models coming this year and next include all trim levels. So for example the 520d, 530i, 540i, 530d, 530e, and M550i, constitute six models already. Add in the X2, X3, 6 Series GT, Mini models, etc, and it'll no doubt get up to forty pretty quickly. The only thing truly new is the X2, which goes right along with the push for more SUVs (which will come at the expense of models which offer less utility and which today's consumer is moving away from).

I couldn't agree more. The chat in that thread was the fake news. The internet comes out and says silly things, like kill the the 3 series and the M3. The whole point I got from it was for BMW to reduce variants and simplify lines. As for your example above, there are SDrive and XDrive variants as well. Does the market really demand all these variations? Do people buy a 4cyl 5er?

X2 looks very promising but isn't the X7 debuting this year as well?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by kozzi

I couldn't agree more. The chat in that thread was the fake news. The internet comes out and says silly things, like kill the the 3 series and the M3. The whole point I got from it was for BMW to reduce variants and simplify lines. As for your example above, there are SDrive and XDrive variants as well. Does the market really demand all these variations? Do people buy a 4cyl 5er?

I am certain there are many more four cylinder 5 Series sold than six cylinder and eight cylinder. In the US, the 530i (formerly, 528i) is by far the most popular model. In Europe it is likely the 520d. And soon, the 530e will begin to syphon sales from both.

X2 looks very promising but isn't the X7 debuting this year as well?

Next year, I think. But yes, it's launch models will probably be part of that 40 as well.

[JK479]

Originally Posted by kozzi

The typical "drove like an old Buick" remark from another individual that is totally ignorant to what they were actually driving. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the X3 28i loaner without any performance options.

Once again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Your x3 is beautiful.

[Silververtu]

So more ugly SUV, less beautiful sporty cars

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Silververtu

So more ugly SUV, less beautiful sporty cars

It's what the people want.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by kozzi

The typical "drove like an old Buick" remark from another individual that is totally ignorant to what they were actually driving. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the X3 28i loaner without any performance options.

Once again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Let's be clear: This is an enthusiast's forum, not "Town and Country" nor "Vanity Fair" magazines. Sure, BMW found a sweet spot for customers seeking a mini-van alternative. Sadly, BMW also seems to have lost interest in developing exciting products for enthusiasts.

I am sincerely glad you enjoy your X-vehicle! But one size doesn't fit all, and enthusiasts have passionate opinions, just like fans.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

It's what the people want.

A petty justification of mediocrity....

Compare with the Jobs / Apple philosophy that it's the supplier's job to innovate because people don't know what's achievable and possible.

Straight out of the Roger Smith playbook. Strong work!

[tyler9595]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

Wanted to see a token performance car in the pipeline, but sadly he's more proud of those tepid "Town and Country" SUVs.

Vinyl-wood siding an option for the new target demographic?

I was in a loaner X3 last week. Even my wife remarked that it drove like an old Buick while my neighbor shared his opinion about the startlingly ugly aesthetics. I also drove a mint E46 M3. The visceral "Motorsport" sport-sedan experience that defined the marque seems like a distant memory now. Sadly I doubt "M" still resides in the corporate DNA. Those responsible are long gone.

Maybe BMW ought to re-brand as Germany's lesser version of America's Jeep?

I love my 2015 X3. In addition, I currently own two Jeep SUVs including a 2017 GC Summit. Same MSRP as my X3 and it's a nice ride. My bimmers are way better.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by tyler9595

I love my 2015 X3. In addition, I currently own two Jeep SUVs including a 2017 GC Summit. Same MSRP as my X3 and it's a nice ride. My bimmers are way better.

Hi, and interesting. I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee after first shopping the X5. The X quickly fell from contention after learning it isn't even engineered for off-road use. The Jeep, on the other hand, was proficient both on and off-road, as well as being very comfortable, well-built, and reliable. I loved it during many mountain adventures, all-seasons.

I'm sincerely glad you enjoy your X3. It would be a boring world if we all drove the same vehicle. How do you use your X3?

[N & M]

Originally Posted by Silververtu

So more ugly SUV, less beautiful sporty cars

I am fine with that if it means it pays for the fun stuff we want.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

A petty justification of mediocrity....

Compare with the Jobs / Apple philosophy that it's the supplier's job to innovate because people don't know what's achievable and possible.

Straight out of the Roger Smith playbook. Strong work!

A interesting take on the comment and I can see some merit to it. The public doesn't always know whats best for them, but I think you have shown your hand with previous comments. If BMW were to build more sporty cars then it would be what you want and therefore fall into the same trap.

Another idea to consider is the obsession with "innovation" it is overused and overvalued. Reminds me of the whole "synergy" craze consultants would always talk about. There was an interesting take on this in a Freakonomics podcast that rebutted the importance of innovation.

To that point Steve Jobs did change the market in smartphones, but after the initial iPhone all I see are mild product enhancements. Better screen, software, battery life, faster hardware. In addition Apple purposely held back obvious improvements to their product so they would have something new to introduce each year. Many of them already in other smartphone products. I would say Steve Jobs was an innovator, but most importantly, a master marketer.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

That thread turned into a flood of ill-conceived speculation because the message the article in the OP was subsequently ignored by many. If a model is stagnant or in decline (which means any SUV is safe) or not catching on in China (which means anything one can be chauffeured in or anything weird is safe), it's at the very least going to be put under serious scrutiny before being renewed for another generation.

By the way, the forty models coming this year and next include all trim levels. So for example the 520d, 530i, 540i, 530d, 530e, and M550i, constitute six models already. Add in the X2, X3, 6 Series GT, Mini models, etc, and it'll no doubt get up to forty pretty quickly. The only thing truly new is the X2, which goes right along with the push for more SUVs (which will come at the expense of models which offer less utility and which today's consumer is moving away from).

Don't forget any refreshes that are on the way. The new X5 coming shortly also counts as one of these new models, I believe.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Silververtu

So more ugly SUV, less beautiful sporty cars

Almost 50% of BMW Sales in the US last year consisted of SUV's. I'm sorry to say this, but as someone who has a degree in business, I would start reconsidering my offering too.