[ThinkRevolutionx]

Congrats, once the demand settles down a bit and msrp or below deals become more the norm, i'll be in one as well. Got put off at the start, absolute disaster of a launch for a number of reasons - but later build dates should have the issues sorted, and order banks for 2018 I believe open next month (with july build dates for septemberish deliveries) so just to play it safe, figured at this point might as well wait for that since i've waited this long...

Incredible truck, really nothing in the same league out there.

[shockin330i]

I worked at a ford dealership. It was rare a Raptor went under Sticker even towards the end of their production. On the few occasions where we dealer traded them, we would dealer trade them at sticker.

[Germanauto]

I have never had a remote interest in any pickup trucks besides this new Raptor.

With that being said, that's a lot of coin for a vehicle with a plastic fantastic interior. I'll stick to low-slung sporty and stiff luxury coupes/convertibles/sedans, and maybe pick up a base model Wrangler as an offroading toy one day.

[shockin330i]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I have never had a remote interest in any pickup trucks besides this new Raptor.

With that being said, that's a lot of coin for a vehicle with a plastic fantastic interior. I'll stick to low-slung sporty and stiff luxury coupes/convertibles/sedans, and maybe pick up a base model Wrangler as an offroading toy one day.

I get what you're saying. But I went that route and to be honest, my wrangler just sits in the drive way.

[John Tanglewood]

I had a Raptor and I loved it. Didn't fit in my garage (or my work garage), so I had to sell it. But if I EVER live/work in an area more conducive to owning this truck, I'll have it again.

$10k over MSRP isn't unheard of, but do you diligence and check every dealer in the damn country. Also check out the fordraptorforum.com

Good luck!

[Fahrvergnügen]

Hopefully the dealership model will end soon and manufacturers can sell direct to customers. With so much information on the internet about cars one may want to buy and manufacturers losing crucial customer relations to a middle man, why does anyone want dealers (especially those that charge ADMs) to stay in the value chain (other than legal implications at the moment)?

[shockin330i]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

Hopefully the dealership model will end soon and manufacturers can sell direct to customers. With so much information on the internet about cars one may want to buy and manufacturers losing crucial customer relations to a middle man, why does anyone want dealers (especially those that charge ADMs) to stay in the value chain (other than legal implications at the moment)?

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Fahrvergnügen

Hopefully the dealership model will end soon and manufacturers can sell direct to customers. With so much information on the internet about cars one may want to buy and manufacturers losing crucial customer relations to a middle man, why does anyone want dealers (especially those that charge ADMs) to stay in the value chain (other than legal implications at the moment)?

That's not happening. Ever. You know how many people would become unemployed and how badly it would impact the economy if that were to happen?

I hate dealerships as much as the next person, but feelings aside, it's not a good move economically speaking.

[Vigilante375]

What needs to happen is the enforcement of dealers not being allowed to marking up any vehicle. If they are caught doing so, they will be fined a certain amount above the markup price. Same thing should happen if a buyer offer's more (because you know people will since they have to have to car).

So if they mark a car up $30k and it's sold before anyone notices, then they'll be fined $40k.

Then they should be put on a list prohibiting certain vehicles to be sold there for a certain amount of time.

I would even go as far as if they are caught 3 seperate times going $1 over MSRP (or accepting more from a buyer) of a new vehicle then they will lose their business with certain fines on top of that to whomever authorized the markup.

It's completely impractical to make people pay more than MSRP. But some people have more money than sense. Or that dealers will take away allocations from 1 person and give it to another because they paid 5 times what they other person paid.

Or just go about the way Tesla does. But that will never happen.

[shockin330i]

By that same notion no dealer should be allowed to sell a vehicle under Msrp.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by shockin330i

By that same notion no dealer should be allowed to sell a vehicle under Msrp.

They should. Because they don't buy it at MSRP, they buy it at Invoice.

[shockin330i]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

They should. Because they don't buy it at MSRP, they buy it at Invoice.

So you're saying that no company makes profit on the products they sell? Lol. I cost me 35¢ to make a taco. You're saying I should sell it for 35¢?

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

What needs to happen is the enforcement of dealers not being allowed to marking up any vehicle. If they are caught doing so, they will be fined a certain amount above the markup price. Same thing should happen if a buyer offer's more (because you know people will since they have to have to car).

So if they mark a car up $30k and it's sold before anyone notices, then they'll be fined $40k.

Then they should be put on a list prohibiting certain vehicles to be sold there for a certain amount of time.

I would even go as far as if they are caught 3 seperate times going $1 over MSRP (or accepting more from a buyer) of a new vehicle then they will lose their business with certain fines on top of that to whomever authorized the markup.

It's completely impractical to make people pay more than MSRP. But some people have more money than sense. Or that dealers will take away allocations from 1 person and give it to another because they paid 5 times what they other person paid.

Or just go about the way Tesla does. But that will never happen.

Does this also apply when a dealer discounts cars and sells them below MSRP?

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by shockin330i

So you're saying that no company makes profit on the products they sell? Lol. I cost me 35¢ to make a taco. You're saying I should sell it for 35¢?

It's also a common fact that dealers make their real money from used cars. But yet again. MSRP is still a profit for the dealership. And it's usually what? A couple thousand.

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Does this also apply when a dealer discounts cars and sells them below MSRP?

Usually when they discount vehicles it's because the manufacturer offers the discount or said car has been on their lot for 1 year+, right?. So they are moving out the old and bringing in the new or just giving the discount that is being applied by the people who made the vehicle.

I find it funny people are complaining about my idea to make it so us consumer's don't get screwed for paying over MSRP. I guess you're the kind of people that like paying over the suggested retail price for a product.

[shockin330i]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

It's also a common fact that dealer make their real money back from used cars.

Usually when they discount vehicles it's because the manufacturer offers the discount or said car has been on their lot for 1 year+, right?. So they are moving out the old and bringing in the new or just giving the discount that is being applied by the people who made the vehicle.

I find it funny people are complaining about my idea to make it so us consumer's don't get screwed for paying over MSRP. I guess you're the kind of people that like paying over the suggested retail price for a product.

Supply and demand. Simple economics. All you would be doing is driving the cost higher as the original buyers would sell the vehicles on the secondary market for way more than msrp. At that point the vehicle would be labeled used which would in turn make it even more difficult for the average Joe to purchase.
With that said you pay way more over "invoice" for computers, clothes, furniture, houses, etc.
I'm the type of people that if I want it I buy it. If you're willing to pay msrp and I want it so bad that I'll pay more, well then I'm gonna pay more. Why, because it's worth it to me.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by shockin330i

Supply and demand. Simple economics. All you would be doing is driving the cost higher as the original buyers would sell the vehicles on the secondary market for way more than msrp. At that point the vehicle would be labeled used which would in turn make it even more difficult for the average Joe to purchase.
With that said you pay way more over "invoice" for computers, clothes, furniture, houses, etc.
I'm the type of people that if I want it I buy it. If you're willing to pay msrp and I want it so bad that I'll pay more, well then I'm gonna pay more. Why, because it's worth it to me.

I understand supply and demand (talking about vehicles here nothing else) but when a vehicle is going to be made year after year, then there is no reason to pay this stupid "market adjustment" price. Even at all for any vehicle.

Dealers mark up the price when a new "special" vehicle comes in. Even though it's going to be made for years to come or that the dealer down the road is selling it at MSRP or lower.

Paying more for something that is generally going to lower in price is stupid. I can wait to have something at the price it's suggested to sale for or buy it used for half the price it was worth a couple of years ago.

If you've got money to throw at a car and want to, more than likely, lose that money once you do sell it. Then go ahead.

But just because a car is selling at MSRP isn't going to make the used market prices sky rocket.

To think of it, look at Australia. I think they regulate the prices of new cars.

[saleen556]

As long as there are people willing to pay a premium to be first nothing will change. If you're patient you can find a Raptor at MSRP. Just gotta do some extra work. For many it's not worth the time.

[fun ticket]

Update: I did buy a Raptor. 2017 Magnetic Grey. I got lucky and found one inbound to the dealer and it was pretty close to what I wanted if I ordered one. I'll miss my X5 but so far I am wondering why I did not do this sooner. I really like it.

I did pay a "market adjustment" as they call it. I looked out of state, etc and everybody wanted a premium over MSRP. One local dealer had a 2K mile demo and they even wanted a premium (slightly reduced) for that one. No way I was doing that. I got tired of looking and ultimately came to the conclusion I had to pay to play so I came to terms with the whole market adjustment scenario.

Anyway, its a great truck.

[shockin330i]

Originally Posted by fun ticket

Update: I did buy a Raptor. 2017 Magnetic Grey. I got lucky and found one inbound to the dealer and it was pretty close to what I wanted if I ordered one. I'll miss my X5 but so far I am wondering why I did not do this sooner. I really like it.

I did pay a "market adjustment" as they call it. I looked out of state, etc and everybody wanted a premium over MSRP. One local dealer had a 2K mile demo and they even wanted a premium (slightly reduced) for that one. No way I was doing that. I got tired of looking and ultimately came to the conclusion I had to pay to play so I came to terms with the whole market adjustment scenario.

Anyway, its a great truck.

At the end of the day all that matters is that you are happy with your purchase. Glad you enjoy it brother!! I will probably be picking one up next year!

[shockin330i]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

I understand supply and demand (talking about vehicles here nothing else) but when a vehicle is going to be made year after year, then there is no reason to pay this stupid "market adjustment" price. Even at all for any vehicle.

Dealers mark up the price when a new "special" vehicle comes in. Even though it's going to be made for years to come or that the dealer down the road is selling it at MSRP or lower.

Paying more for something that is generally going to lower in price is stupid. I can wait to have something at the price it's suggested to sale for or buy it used for half the price it was worth a couple of years ago.

If you've got money to throw at a car and want to, more than likely, lose that money once you do sell it. Then go ahead.

But just because a car is selling at MSRP isn't going to make the used market prices sky rocket.

To think of it, look at Australia. I think they regulate the prices of new cars.

Just because it's stupid to you doesn't mean its stupid to others. Again, if you want to be one of the first, then you have to pay for it. You don't see the value, you're further down the demand Curve.
And if cars sell for msrp there is a higher chance that its cost will be higher in the used car market. 2013 Raptors are still pulling over 40k on used car lots. You can't say the same for Platinums or king ranches.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by shockin330i

Just because it's stupid to you doesn't mean its stupid to others. Again, if you want to be one of the first, then you have to pay for it. You don't see the value, you're further down the demand Curve.
And if cars sell for msrp there is a higher chance that its cost will be higher in the used car market. 2013 Raptors are still pulling over 40k on used car lots. You can't say the same for Platinums or king ranches.

There are a few vehicles with good resale value in the used market. Tacoma, Silverado, 1M and G8 GXP to name a few but other with crap value. CTS-V, S Class, Jaguar XK, C250, etc.

There are a lot of cars that sell for MSRP and over and they have the resale value of a Ford Pinto while others (not a lot) have the resale value of an 05/06 Ford GT.

In this day and age, you can search the entire word for a vehicle. Forums are dedicated to vehicles and people/dealers posting that you can get said vehicle for MSRP or below while everyone else tries to selling for over MSRP.

[shockin330i]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

There are a few vehicles with good resale value in the used market. Tacoma, Silverado, 1M and G8 GXP to name a few but other with crap value. CTS-V, S Class, Jaguar XK, C250, etc.

There are a lot of cars that sell for MSRP and over and they have the resale value of a Ford Pinto while others (not a lot) have the resale value of an 05/06 Ford GT.

In this day and age, you can search the entire word for a vehicle. Forums are dedicated to vehicles and people/dealers posting that you can get said vehicle for MSRP or below while everyone else tries to selling for over MSRP.

And OP couldn't find one. Hence he had to pay over sticker.