[antych]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Yes, I was considering the numbers to be a comparison using the same units from the same country. The original question was why was the torque a higher figure than the jorsepower and not the other way around. Since hp is torque times rpm, they are entirely related. So i was explaining why sometimes one was higher, sometimes the other.

Stop please You can't say one is higher, that's the whole point.

Is 100 Peso more than 50 USD? The number is higher so it must be more right? But 150 cents is even more, by the looks of it.

This discussion is on a level of 3 year olds.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by rainfall

If you're talking about US units (HP and lb-ft), then the numerical values are similar in the value

for example, a MK6 gti has ~200hp and ~200 lb-ft of torque
The Mk7 gti got more torque than it got power because the compression that the turbo is giving to the engine is bigger.

You can typically find more torque on turbocharged engines with high boost or in large engines with low RPM limiter (like the 5.7L Dodge Challenger with 375 hp /410 lb-ft of torque an a 5600 rpm rev limiter)

p.s. I think the others already bashed you enough saying that torque and power are two completely different things ,right

Why do you not read? This is the third time you answered this incorrectly. It doesn't matter what country you are in. Zero. Torque and horsepower are two different things, but you use the torque curve to calculate the horsepower curve, so they are related. And depending on how soon the torque starts and its slope, you can vary the hp number up and down. Now the hp calculation for different countries can vary as they use a different scale, but the relationship of these two curves is still the same. He was asking about the relationship between the curves, and I don't see anywhere anyone asking why hp varies between Australia, England, and pretty much everywhere else, which you've been harping on but without pointing out that regardless of what system you use, hp numbers still use torque to be calculated and the shape of the torque curve ultimately is the determining value that varies the max hp number vs the max torque number.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by trey100

The formula is correct but a car's torque can peak below 5252 and still have a higher HP number. Depends on how that torque falls off as RPMs rise. For instance if you have a car that "peaks" at 406 lb ft at 1850 rpm but still has 375 lb ft or torque at 7,500 rpm, then in that case

HP = 375 x 7500/5252 which is 535 HP.

You can't look at torque and HP at 2 different RPMs and compare them. They are happening at different points. To calculate HP across the rpm range, you look at the torque throughout the rpm range and calculate the corresponding HP at each rpm. Graphing that gives you the HP curve.

This is why HP and torque curves always intersect at 5252 rpm. Regardless of the torque value the equation will always give you a HP equal to the torque value.

An S2000 has a relatively flat torque curve all the way up high in the rpm range. Therefore the horsepower curve is close to a line in shape compared to say an M3 that has a drop off in torque up high and therefore has a rounded off hp curve.

This is the correct calculation for the US. I don't know why you guys are interjecting other international standards for measurement. That wasn't the OP question nor was it asked. The OP asked how a car could have higher torque than horsepower vs the other way around.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by antych

Stop please You can't say one is higher, that's the whole point.

Is 100 Peso more than 50 USD? The number is higher so it must be more right? But 150 cents is even more, by the looks of it.

This discussion is on a level of 3 year olds.

Whst are you babbling about? If you feel showing another international equasion for calculating hp then show it. The relationship i described is the same. The numbers will vary but the shape of the torque curve will still be the same. The OP never asked why country X torque and horsepower numbers were different from country Y.

[mbanks21]

I think the fact this guy says he has an S63 and a Mclaren and he's asking basic questions about HP and tq should tell you something

[Fundguy1]

True

[RACEM4TE]

Originally Posted by mbanks21

I think the fact this guy says he has an S63 and a Mclaren and he's asking basic questions about HP and tq should tell you something

I know about HP/Torque im just asking why does torque have a higher output than HP in somecars.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by Stubbie Blue

It's just the way the equation works out:

hp = torque (lb-ft) x rpm / 5252

If an engine produces peak torque below 5252 rpm, the peak hp will be lower than the torque in lb-ft. e.g. most diesels.

If it produces peak torque at or around 5252 rpm, the peak hp will be close to the torque number. Most engines are like this.

If it produces peak torque above 5252 rpm, the peak hp will be higher than the torque number. Usually high-revving, small displacement NA sports cars are like this.

I'm not following, its just me. But what I gather from the formula is that it's just a conversion formula. Is 5252 rpm or just or a constant for conversion - horsepower to watts then to lb-ft per minute / pi x 2 .

[antych]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Whst are you babbling about? If you feel showing another international equasion for calculating hp then show it. The relationship i described is the same. The numbers will vary but the shape of the torque curve will still be the same. The OP never asked why country X torque and horsepower numbers were different from country Y.

You don't comprehend basic logic and maths, just like the OP, you're just fuelling his ignorance.

[antych]

Originally Posted by RACEM4TE

I know about HP/Torque im just asking why is torque have a higher output than HP in somecars.

It doesn't have higher output. It's a different thing measured in different way, in different units. Just because the number is bigger, doesn't mean something is higher. Look at the fking units.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by antych

You don't comprehend basic logic and maths, just like the OP, you're just fuelling his ignorance.

Wtf are you talking about?
"The engine that makes 300 pound-feet of torque at 4,000 RPM produces [(300 x 4,000) / 5,252] 228 horsepower at 4,000 RPM."

This IS the formula for horseoower U.S. spec. Thus if the peak torque is at a lower rom, hp will be lowwr than a car makimg the same torque at a higher rpm. Additionally, if you calculate using the british method, you multiply the resulting usa hp number by 0.986 to get the UK equivalent, etc.

Here is a link explaining it. Please stop the ignorant comments.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by antych

It doesn't have higher output. It's a different thing measured in different way, in different units. Just because the number is bigger, doesn't mean something is higher. Look at the fking units.

Omg. He wants to know why some cars have a higher torque number than hp number and others the reverse if the same units are used. Example, why does that Porsche have 700 torque and 500 hp vs e9x m3 has 300 torque and 414 hp using the same torque units for the torque comparison and same hp units for the hp comparison. He isn't comparing torque to horsepower. He isn't comparing USA hp to Brit or Aussie hp. He isn't saying hp and torque are the same thing. We all know there is a relationship between torque and horsepower as torque is used to calculate horsepower regardless of which nationalities hp you are calculating. He wants to know why the ratios are different between different car engines.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by RACEM4TE

I know about HP/Torque im just asking why is torque have a higher output than HP in somecars.

its all about the torque curve characteristic of the engine how the engine was designed/tuned ie for what application
some engines torque curves spike at low RPMs and drop off at higher RPMs and the peak HP suffers

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

I'm not following, its just me. But what I gather from the formula is that it's just a conversion formula. Is 5252 rpm or just or a constant for conversion - horsepower to watts then to lb-ft per minute / pi x 2 .

5252 is an approximate constant for conversion to make the calculations with HP, rpm and lbf-ft for the circular movement.

For using Nm or kW it would be different.

Basically the equation is power=force x distance / time (and using 2pi to calculate rotational torque as 2pi x radius is the circumference of the circle it describes )

To simplify the formula for rotational torque (like in engines), you can use P = T x ω
(with P in watts and T in Nm. ω is angular velocity.)

[stooker]

Originally Posted by RACEM4TE

My question in the title, lets say a porsche 911 turbo it has 580 HP/ 780 Torque why cant it have 750HP/ and 580 torque?

Originally Posted by RACEM4TE

I know about HP/Torque im just asking why is torque have a higher output than HP in somecars.

Originally Posted by RACEM4TE

I was talking About Nm not ib-ft

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Omg. He wants to know why some cars have a higher torque number than hp number and others the reverse if the same units are used. Example, why does that Porsche have 700 torque and 500 hp vs e9x m3 has 300 torque and 414 hp using the same torque units for the torque comparison and same hp units for the hp comparison. He isn't comparing torque to horsepower. He isn't comparing USA hp to Brit or Aussie hp. He isn't saying hp and torque are the same thing. We all know there is a relationship between torque and horsepower as torque is used to calculate horsepower regardless of which nationalities hp you are calculating. He wants to know why the ratios are different between different car engines.

You're concluding quite a lot from the OP's three short posts in this thread...

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by RACEM4TE

My question in the title, lets say a porsche 911 turbo it has 580 HP/ 780 Torque why cant it have 750HP/ and 580 torque?

Here is the op original question.
I answered it with an answer that doesn't depend on the power rating system used. SAE, NM, whatever. Its still the torque curve that dictates the hp number regardless of the system used. Depending on the system used, the hp value will be different because its different units, but that does not answer his original question of how some engines have higher hp than tq numbers, others the opposite, ehile using THE SAME units of measuring.

[Fundguy1]

Gosh you Aussie guys get so wrapped up and defensive comparing NM to SAE. The question has nothing to do with that. He didn't say why does the American Porsche have more hp than the Aussie one.

[rainfall]

I love how some people in Bimmerpost keep quoting other people to make them mad lol. Come on guys, get along. We all love cars and let's keep the connections healthy. <3

[Fundguy1]

Still trying to figure out why certain countries cling to obscure methodologies vs the rest of the world but hey that's a separate issue.

[chromatic]

Originally Posted by antych

I think you need to go back to school and learn about units. Your question makes no sense. There's no such thing as 580 torque and you can't compare two different things measured in different units. It's like saying that 780 litres of milk is more than 580 meters of rope.

Man! you really cracked me up....

[trey100]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

This is the correct calculation for the US. I don't know why you guys are interjecting other international standards for measurement. That wasn't the OP question nor was it asked. The OP asked how a car could have higher torque than horsepower vs the other way around.

The OP did not ask that. He asked why it couldn't have a higher HP than torque.

The short answer is - it could.

My response was to the part I quoted. Just correcting it. That quote said cars with a peak torque below 5252 will have a HP number lower than the torque. I was clarifying that as long as there wasn't a steep drop off the HP could still be numerically higher with a peak torque below 5252.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by stooker

You're concluding quite a lot from the OP's three short posts in this thread...

I saw his 3 posts. I don't see that i an concluding or assuming anything. I don't see anywhere the op asking how the NM car's numbers are different from the SAE numbers. The assumptiibs are ciming from the other posters and if they had prefaced by saying "If you mean why does the NM numbers for HP look smaller than the SAE numbers" then there would be no disagreement vs their assumption that looks very improbable that this was what the OP was asking and then basing their attacks against my correct posts using this assumption without acknowledging that my posts were technically correct. Very poor form.