[Red Bread]

Also worth pointing out that if you have the money and don't drive a ton of miles, it might be worth stepping up to an RS3 or M2 just for the wildly better resale retention.

I drove the R a few times before buying both of my GTIs, and while I don't prefer it, they do have much stronger value retention that's nearly swung me that route each time. I just can't overcome the softer feel and added weight.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Also worth pointing out that if you have the money and don't drive a ton of miles, it might be worth stepping up to an RS3 or M2 just for the wildly better resale retention.

I drove the R a few times before buying both of my GTIs, and while I don't prefer it, they do have much stronger value retention that's nearly swung me that route each time. I just can't overcome the softer feel and added weight.

I drive 20,000+ miles per year. So I'm really not worried about value retention. More about a good freeway ride, and good performance. Especially acceleration.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

I drive 20,000+ miles per year. So I'm really not worried about value retention. More about a good freeway ride, and good performance. Especially acceleration.

See if you can find a local with an APR tuned VAG car. And yeah, I drive about that much a year too so it wasn't a big factor for me.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by XMetal

This is a no brainer if you got the funds and you're driving it all balls out all the time. RS3 is tamed and drives similar to the S3 until your throttle goes past 50%...so unless you're always on 50% plus throttle during your daily commute, you won't noticed the RS3 performance over the S3.

Also, what you said would be true across all the model lines - same argument can be made for a lot of cars...for example, for M2 vs M240i. If you have driven an M2, why would you want to own the M240i?

Well, who buys these cars to drive like old men? Not me! I went for the Hellcat over the slow 392 b/c life is short! Smiles per gallon, my friend!!

[Germanauto]

The S3 makes the most sense on paper due to modernity and practicality (4 doors, trunk, more luxurious than a Golf).

With that being said, if you value steering even a little bit you'll find it boring to drive. I much prefer the 135.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

The S3 makes the most sense on paper due to modernity and practicality (4 doors, trunk, more luxurious than a Golf).

With that being said, if you value steering even a little bit you'll find it boring to drive. I much prefer the 135.

The 1er HPS isn't all that great. I honestly don't think it's any better than my GTI EPS. But don't you have a 1M? That's night and day to a 135i, and some of the best BMW has done.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The 1er HPS isn't all that great. I honestly don't think it's any better than my GTI EPS. But don't you have a 1M? That's night and day to a 135i, and some of the best BMW has done.

Is the front wheel drive steering and handling of the GTI that great? S3 would have more AWD strait line grins as well...

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Is the front wheel drive steering and handling of the GTI that great? S3 would have more AWD strait line grins as well...

It's Haldex 6, so 11% to the rear until slip. Not really the same thing as most folk's awd. And it's 400 plus pounds heavier than my car. Both versions of the EA888 are plenty tubeable, so I don't see much advantage.

It's not so much that the GTI is better, it's more that all of these cars share the MQB chassis and many of the same components without the "M" treatment of lighter/stronger components for the higher performance models. The RS3 does get some cool bits, but the GTI/ Golf R / S3 share a lot of components with weight going up for each model.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The 1er HPS isn't all that great. I honestly don't think it's any better than my GTI EPS. But don't you have a 1M? That's night and day to a 135i, and some of the best BMW has done.

I wish i had a 1M

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I wish i had a 1M

Same. Have I mentioned the time I nearly traded the wife's 135i on and one and didn't? Stupid hindsight.

[10"]

"Dated" doesn't matter. Out of those 3 the 135i is definitely the drivers car; and actually one of the last true drivers' cars that BMW ever made. The F-series cars were a big downgrade in terms of driving characteristics.

[10"]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The 1er HPS isn't all that great. I honestly don't think it's any better than my GTI EPS. But don't you have a 1M? That's night and day to a 135i, and some of the best BMW has done.

Totally disagree. The E82 HPS is way better than the GTI. In fact the E82 steering is some of the tightest and nicest steering of any E-series BMW. Sure the 1M is different and possibly better but having owned both the 135 and the 1M the 135 held its own.

VW and Audi are terrible at steering feel; even when they had hydraulic. Their electronic racks are significantly worse, IMO. BMW are pretty bad now; but all the more reason to celebrate the last good BMWs that were out in the early 2010s

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by 10"

Totally disagree. The E82 HPS is way better than the GTI. In fact the E82 steering is some of the tightest and nicest steering of any E-series BMW. Sure the 1M is different and possibly better but having owned both the 135 and the 1M the 135 held its own.

VW and Audi are terrible at steering feel; even when they had hydraulic. Their electronic racks are significantly worse, IMO. BMW are pretty bad now; but all the more reason to celebrate the last good BMWs that were out in the early 2010s

I'd probably agree more if the car I had when we had our 135i wasn't my Z3 M Coupe, which had comically better steering than the poor 1er, with the same Michelin PSS on both. The 1er was just heavy for the sake of heavy and didn't really provide small bump feel or a sense of loss of traction. It just felt like it had a whole bag of marshmallows isolating the feel. My GTI at least communicates when you've hit road imperfections and gives a clue about loss of adhesion.

The 1M pirates the bulk of the M3 front end making it much more communicative and had a better rack with more assistance and a quicker ratio.

[jc05e46m3]

S3 by far unless you need to save some funds, then you opt for Golf R with the exact same drivetrain. I think the comforts of the S3 are much better. My wife had an APR Stage 2 S3 and it was a blast to drive. You really cant go wrong - especially if you can find a CPO with some prepaid maintenance.

[MR_X]

I trade a 2018 S3 (fully loaded) for the M4. My brother has a Golf R. Yes they are the same car but they feel completely different. Loved the interior in my S3. Had a Nardo Grey with red leather interior and it was awesome. IMO Audi has the best digital cluster. The interior of the Golf R feels (sounds) very cheap. The dash/console is not as nice as the S3.

[Captain Blood]

I've decided on an S3. There is a nice one for sale down 75. Silver, and it seems to have the same performance parameters as my 135, but is a bit more modern. I hate to see the 135 go, I absolutely love it. But a BMW with over 100K miles is a hand grenade just waiting to go off.

[Humdizzle]

Not sure what years you were looking at for the S3, but did you get the active lane assist that steers for you over 40mph?

I know its in the new S3 and Golf R (but not the GTI )... but i'm not sure if the 2016-17 S3 had it.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

Not sure what years you were looking at for the S3, but did you get the active lane assist that steers for you over 40mph?

I know its in the new S3 and Golf R (but not the GTI )... but i'm not sure if the 2016-17 S3 had it.

Another nanny that is a waste of $

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Captain Blood

I drive 20,000+ miles per year. So I'm really not worried about value retention. More about a good freeway ride, and good performance. Especially acceleration.

If you could swing an RS3, that would be my recommendation. The inline 5 sounds terrific, 0-60 in under 4 seconds, and they look amazing without being in your face. If the RS isn't doable, then you can't go wrong with the S3. I was cross shopping the RS3 and the M2C, but ultimately the RWD 6MT car won.

Golf R is meh. I'd rather have a CTR than a Mk6 or 7 Golf R, even if it is wrong wheel drive. Hell, if you're looking at the Golf R, might as well consider the Focus RS. The American AWD hatch isn't nearly as nice as the VAG car, but potentially something else to consider.

[Mach550]

Originally Posted by Conissah

If you could swing an RS3, that would be my recommendation. The inline 5 sounds terrific, 0-60 in under 4 seconds, and they look amazing without being in your face. If the RS isn't doable, then you can't go wrong with the S3. I was cross shopping the RS3 and the M2C, but ultimately the RWD 6MT car won.

Golf R is meh. I'd rather have a CTR than a Mk6 or 7 Golf R, even if it is wrong wheel drive. Hell, if you're looking at the Golf R, might as well consider the Focus RS. The American AWD hatch isn't nearly as nice as the VAG car, but potentially something else to consider.

Looking at autotrader I see only an $8k'ish gap between the two, used is a bigger gap since the RS holds its value, the 5 cylinder sound is easily worth the difference.