[eljay]

Originally Posted by R N M

Selling out for short term attention but in the long run it completely dilutes one of the most storied name plates from US automaker and especially Ford.

When you think of a Mustang whether you’re 4yrs old or 80yrs old - its a performance coupe not a damn SUV and EV at that. Just poor decision making.

There are rumors 4door sedan Mustang is also on the way. I can’t wait for all the Shelby versions. Maybe next EV Suv will be called GT40.....

Just pure laziness by Ford - they have a million names that they can resurrect - Thunderbird, Taurus, Lightning, Maverick, Fusion etc

Oh, I totally agree.
And yes, one can't compare Eclipse with Mustang, I just note this trend of attempted chase of the next quarter sales with a name.

They are obviously not targeting an owner of a classic Mach 1.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Actually the plan for me right now it to buy a Camaro SS 1LE later this year. V8, Manual, RWD, not stunningly beautiful, but also not ugly.

That'll be a fun car no doubt. Enjoy it!

(Now hopefully GM doesn't go and announce an electric Camaro SUV which, it appears, would force you to make the difficult but necessary choice to sell it immediately. )

[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

I’d spend 75k on a butt ugly M4 at that point.

But you won't get a new M4 for anything close to $75K.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

The fact that driving a car from California to Georgia is newsworthy says volumes about the impracticality of EVs in 2021.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

The fact that driving a car from California to Georgia is newsworthy says volumes about the impracticality of EVs in 2021.

No...it says nothing. Practicality of driving across the country is only relevant to those who's family tree looks more like a pretzel.

[David70]

Talk to a EV owner about charging times and number of stations on long distance travel and they never talk to you about the difference in time of stopping at every exit in the U.S. and finding a gas station close and the time and inconvenience of the location of the charger dictating when and where you will stop. Assuming driving across the country you know what city and time you will stop as you start the day and you will eat lunch within walking distance. Nobody actually wants to find lunch this way they just deal with it as an EV owner.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

That'll be a fun car no doubt. Enjoy it!

(Now hopefully GM doesn't go and announce an electric Camaro SUV which, it appears, would force you to make the difficult but necessary choice to sell it immediately. )

Thanks! Good thing GM know better. No EVs under their “performance car” category. Only Camaros, Corvettes, C8Rs and actual race engine/transmission parts.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by SteveinArizona

But you won't get a new M4 for anything close to $75K.

Even with how ugly it is?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by FC4

If your time was worth anything, you wouldn't be driving across the country like a yokel.

So this is where I'd like to chime in. I've done 6 cross-country trips in my lifetime. One was a non-stop (except for sleeping at night) 3-day rip from LA to Washington DC with my parents in my dad's ultimate highway machine, a 1978 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Diesel (900 miles per tank - LOL). The other 5 were two motorcycle vacation road trips and 3 vacation road trips in a Z3, from DC to the Rockies. I've also gone vertical up to Novia Scotia (on the scooter) and down to Key West (auto train to Orlando) over to New Orleans and back to DC. Oh, and a 7-day tour of the National Forests from Virginia down to South Carolina. I'm well versed in road trip travel.

My last trip was in September 2017 in the Z3. We took non-interstate all the way out and all the way back. During the entire trip on the route we took, I saw one (1) Tesla supercharger facility and zero (0) DC Fast Charging stations. While you can drive coast to coast in an EV for $160, what is the point? Take a plane and save yourself 4 days of travel. Take a real "road trip" in a EV and kind of meander here and there, there's just too much planning involved, which takes the fun out of it. And fun is the reason you road trip. You can literally get gasoline anywhere in the US and the farthest apart refueling stations are for ICE is just more than 100 miles. Worrying about refueling in an EV on a road trip would be a complete PIA.

My 2 cents.

[Humdizzle]

I think we are hitting on the main issue with EVs.

while they are fantastic daily drivers... they are terrible cars for road trips and long distance travel. And most of us with a weekend sports car would want a daily driver that can also take long distance trips if needed.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So this is where I'd like to chime in. I've done 6 cross-country trips in my lifetime. On was a non-stop (except for sleeping at night) 3-day rip from LA to Washington DC with my parents in my dad's ultimate highway machine, a 1978 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Diesel (900 miles per tank - LOL). The other 5 were two motorcycle vacation road trips and 3 vacation road trips in a Z3, from DC to the Rockies. I've also gone vertical up to Novia Scotia (on the scooter) and down to Key West (auto train to Orlando) over to New Orleans and back to DC. Oh, and a 7-day tour of the National Forests from Virginia down to South Carolina. I'm well versed in road trip travel.

My last trip was in September 2017 in the Z3. We took non-interstate all the way out and all the way back. During the entire trip on the route we took, I saw one (1) Tesla supercharger facility and zero (0) DC Fast Charging stations. While you can drive coast to coast in an EV for $160, what is the point? Take a plane and save yourself 4 days of travel. Take a real "road trip" in a EV and kind of meander here and there, there's just too much planning involved, which takes the fun out of it. And fun is the reason you road trip. You can literally get gasoline anywhere in the US and the farthest apart refueling stations are for ICE is just more than 100 miles. Worrying about refueling in an EV on a road trip would be a complete PIA.

My 2 cents.

Three round trip cross country trips for me, Central FL to Seattle (zig zagged all over the country for 10k miles in 30 days), Central FL to Portland, OR, and East TN to Los Angeles. All had a valid reason, not just getting from point A to point B, 2 were for moves and car needed to come.

Portland to Central FL in 3.5 days, only slept in my car until hotel near New Orleans. Make good time when you only pull off, go to sleep, wake up and keep driving. The EV would have created another night in a hotel, pushing up the overall cost and hassle. His Jacksonville - San Diego is 34 hours driving time, 2354 miles, my Portland through CA to FL (December and avoiding bad weather) is estimated at 51 hours driving time and 3379 miles

We could easily have an EV for 1 of our cars now, possibly for 2 but any cross country trip and I would just rent an ICE if I didn't have one. I occasionally need a pickup truck/moving truck but don't own one because 99% of the time I don't want it. I don't understand the people that buy some of the largest vehicles made for the once or twice a year family vacation.

[TXSTYLE]

I believe the more realistic purpose of EVs are for "Daily Commutes" from home to work and local commuting. Which I definitely see the advantage.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

Thanks! Good thing GM know better. No EVs under their “performance car” category. Only Camaros, Corvettes, C8Rs and actual race engine/transmission parts.

Yeah, so right now, it looks pretty certain that they're going to retire the Camaro name before the EV reaper comes knocking. It's not too surprising since that brand isn't as valuable as the Mustang brand. They're focusing a lot of energy on Hummer right now, and I suspect we'll see some other classic names on the docket soon too.

But if someone at GM runs the numbers and finds that "Camaro" is valuable enough in the years to come, they'll definitely bring it back at some future date, no doubt well into the EV era. When they do, maybe it'll be a coupe with a 500 mile solid state battery, four motor 1000hp+ setup. That'd be cool. But, since no one really knows where the bottom is for the steadily declining coupe market, it might very well take on some other form.

At any rate, high performance EVs will come, even for the high octane Big 3 performance houses. Maybe they'll retire Corvette before that too. But seeing as how they've already promised electric Corvettes to some people in high places, I don't think it's going to escape that fate.

[Drv4fun]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Guy spends $160 driving across country, makes headlines. Headline forgets to state that he spent 10 hours charging the car.

Let's assume we're driving 3000 miles. Let's also assume we are driving a gas engine car that gets 30mpg highway. So we need 100 gallons at say $3/gallon average. $300. $300 - 160 = $140. So he spent 10 hours at charging stations to save $140. I don't know about you, but my time and patience is worth more than $14/hour.

Also assumes there is no line up at charging station. More practical for many day low mile/day road trip.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

Which common sense tells me, those charge ups included some recreational or down time.

And who cares that they call it a Mustang. in fact, considering it is one of the most iconic and recognized car Marques on earth, makes perfect sense. (not directed at you Steve)

If you look at Ford's direction, I think they trending to make "Brands" from their iconic nameplates. The New Bronco has been released within a "Family" of "Built Wild" vehicles, being those of the Bronco Sport (Baby Bronco) and the Bronco (the big Bronco). With the Mach E, I think the intent is to make a "Brand Family" out of the Mustang name. I see this no different than BMW's "3-Series", or "5-Series, etc. BMW markets the X2, X3, the X5, etc. for vehicles that save some sharing of architecture and driveline components, are apples and oranges. Lets not mention the 4-door "GT" versions of the 3er and 5er.

I'm not sure what there is to get so upset about using the Mustang name for an electric semi-SUV bodied vehicle. Once the Mustang adopts an electric drivetrain, it lets Ford wrap back around and ride the coattails of the Mustang Mach E. And for God's sake, Ford dropped the Mustang nameplate altogether in 1974 through 1978 with the introduction of the Pinto-based Mustang II. And worst, the "new" Mustang was supposed to be what became the FWD Ford Probe.

[dreamingat30fps]

I just find it amusing as soon as the topic of EVs comes up everyone seems to become a long haul trucker.

I've NEVER driven cross country in a car. I've flown many places, I've gone in our RV... never driven a car more than like 8-10 hours and that's maybe 2-3 times in my life.

On top of that over half of households in the US have 2 cars or more. The whole argument against EVs because they are a "pain" to travel cross country is almost as stupid as the arguments FOR EVs because they save you sooooo much money on gas.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yeah, so right now, it looks pretty certain that they're going to retire the Camaro name before the EV reaper comes knocking. It's not too surprising since that brand isn't as valuable as the Mustang brand. They're focusing a lot of energy on Hummer right now, and I suspect we'll see some other classic names on the docket soon too.

But if someone at GM runs the numbers and finds that "Camaro" is valuable enough in the years to come, they'll definitely bring it back at some future date, no doubt well into the EV era. When they do, maybe it'll be a coupe with a 500 mile solid state battery, four motor 1000hp+ setup. That'd be cool. But, since no one really knows where the bottom is for the steadily declining coupe market, it might very well take on some other form.

At any rate, high performance EVs will come, even for the high octane Big 3 performance houses. Maybe they'll retire Corvette before that too. But seeing as how they've already promised electric Corvettes to some people in high places, I don't think it's going to escape that fate.

You're probably right. And the EV future does not have to be a boring, commuter only. Nothing wrong with torque vectoring by e-motors. Battery tech is the down side, charging time even more so than range. How long will it take to fill the battery in 3min? And how long will it take for your local racetrack to have thigh voltage infrastructure needed to recharge 3x in one track day?

For now the gas station is always close by. In the future.. who knows? But my bet is not before 2030. Till then, long live ICE.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So this is where I'd like to chime in. I've done 6 cross-country trips in my lifetime. On was a non-stop (except for sleeping at night) 3-day rip from LA to Washington DC with my parents in my dad's ultimate highway machine, a 1978 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Diesel (900 miles per tank - LOL). The other 5 were two motorcycle vacation road trips and 3 vacation road trips in a Z3, from DC to the Rockies. I've also gone vertical up to Novia Scotia (on the scooter) and down to Key West (auto train to Orlando) over to New Orleans and back to DC. Oh, and a 7-day tour of the National Forests from Virginia down to South Carolina. I'm well versed in road trip travel.

My last trip was in September 2017 in the Z3. We took non-interstate all the way out and all the way back. During the entire trip on the route we took, I saw one (1) Tesla supercharger facility and zero (0) DC Fast Charging stations. While you can drive coast to coast in an EV for $160, what is the point? Take a plane and save yourself 4 days of travel. Take a real "road trip" in a EV and kind of meander here and there, there's just too much planning involved, which takes the fun out of it. And fun is the reason you road trip. You can literally get gasoline anywhere in the US and the farthest apart refueling stations are for ICE is just more than 100 miles. Worrying about refueling in an EV on a road trip would be a complete PIA.

My 2 cents.

The 350 miles between SF and LA is about the farthest I'll ever drive and you see countless Teslas making the trek. I don't foresee any situation in my life which will force me to drive across the entire country...and neither will most people.

But, yes...if driving across the country is something you have to do for whatever reason, then maybe an EV is not the right choice.

[M3_WC]

Every Mach E review I have seen praises the car as a legitimate contender. But what holds it back is the crap charging infrastructure. Every time they went to a charging station the chargers didn’t work and had to switch spots or go to another location. Most times the charger never came close to charging at the advertised rate. Charging infrastructure is what Tesla has in spades.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I just find it amusing as soon as the topic of EVs comes up everyone seems to become a long haul trucker.

I've NEVER driven cross country in a car. I've flown many places, I've gone in our RV... never driven a car more than like 8-10 hours and that's maybe 2-3 times in my life.

On top of that over half of households in the US have 2 cars or more. The whole argument against EVs because they are a "pain" to travel cross country is almost as stupid as the arguments FOR EVs because they save you sooooo much money on gas.

Another downside for the millions that live in the city that either don’t have garages or park on the street. You have to rely solely on the charging station infrastructure. The current infrastructure is trash.

[Bongoxxx]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Charging infrastructure is what Tesla has in spades.

This for sure. My niece has a BMW i3 Rex and is trading it for a model Y next month.

The i3 was great when she lived at home and could plug in at home, not so much in 2nd year university with limited chargers around. She usually has to go park around the back of a Comfort Inn in a not so great part of town to charge.

With Tesla she has multiple options right on campus and a supercharger station a few blocks from her condo.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

With Tesla she has multiple options right on campus and a supercharger station a few blocks from her condo.

This struck me as an intriguing statement.

You mention these "multiple options" for charging a Tesla separately from the Tesla Supercharger. I am very curious what these "multiple options" are and - most importantly - why they will charge a Model Y with no problem, but cannot charge an i3.

I ask because, other than Tesla's own Superchargers, I've never heard of nor seen any EV charger that was Tesla-specific.