[sharpmoney]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_S6-53_transmission

so its a direct carryover from the F87 as well? and same one for 3.0csl?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Wheelwright

I am getting contradictory opinions about the manual gearbox, from "feels exactly like in my 135i" to "feels better than in the new M4".

I suspect each one is different. You could drive five different g87 mt cars and find variance.

[shgpt]

Nice to see you're still road raging

[G30M]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

It feels better than my F87. so there's that.

new manual transmission always feels better than loosed up used manuals, but then i have neither so who am i to comment lol

[BMthusiast]

Launch control @ 13:12.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by g21

new manual transmission always feels better than loosed up used manuals, but then i have neither so who am i to comment lol

I found my F82 6-speed shifted much better after loosening up for a few thousand miles.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by akkando

I suspect each one is different. You could drive five different g87 mt cars and find variance.

True. And just because a 135i and a G82 use the same transmission, doesn't mean they're using the same shift linkage. The M/T supra is constantly praised for it's positive shift feel and it's just the same transmission again.

[NotSharocks]

Originally Posted by Moflow

True. And just because a 135i and a G82 use the same transmission, doesn't mean they're using the same shift linkage. The M/T supra is constantly praised for it's positive shift feel and it's just the same transmission again.

It's the same transmission with a different lever and shift knob.

It's not the greatest thing in the world lol.

What we need to focus on is how much of a lil porker the M2 has become.

Been on a weight increase since 2015.

You fat bro, ain't no other way to say it lol

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

You fat bro, ain't no other way to say it lol

Yo bro, you body shamin' the M2?

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

What we need to focus on is how much of a lil porker the M2 has become.

Do we tho? It's fast, fun, refined, and comfortable. Other than burning up consumables on track day, why should we care?

If weight matters more than everything else, I'm sure Lotus would like to sell you an Elise. That's the way to go. But you'll give up a lot.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Do we tho? It's fast, fun, refined, and comfortable. Other than burning up consumables on track day, why should we care?

If weight matters more than everything else, I'm sure Lotus would like to sell you an Elise. That's they way to go. But you'll give up a lot.

And if you love bad NVH, the GR86 is a great car.

[NotSharocks]

Originally Posted by m2ss

Yo bro, you body shamin' the M2?

I'm not PC bro lol

[NotSharocks]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Do we tho? It's fast, fun, refined, and comfortable. Other than burning up consumables on track day, why should we care?

If weight matters more than everything else, I'm sure Lotus would like to sell you an Elise. That's they way to go. But you'll give up a lot.

I mean why is a 2 door "small" coupe close to 4k pounds?

You can add all the power in the world but the physics of being heavy still matter lol

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

I mean why is a 2 door "small" coupe close to 4k pounds?

If you ACTUALLY want the reasons, they are all over the forums already. I can also list them for you, if you want. But I suspect you wouldn't accept the answers.

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

You can add all the power in the world but the physics of being heavy still matter lol

But what does "matter" mean to you? The car is very fast, practical, brakes well, turns in well, corners well, is comfortable, has great tech. It apparently compares well against a Porsche GTS (somehow). Why should I give up those any of those things just to be lighter?

A marathon runner can saw off a leg to lose weight, but it doesn't make them better at their job.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by zero21

And if you love bad NVH, the GR86 is a great car.

TBF, it IS a great car, even with the obvious cost-costing. If I ever pick up a weekend hooning toy car, it's on my short list.

[Humdizzle]

people need to separate weight and lap times. I had a modded GTR and toyota 86 in my garage years back. the GTR would murder it in every performance metric, but the 86 felt like a way more pure driving experience. at least on the road. the GTR was also faster on a backroad than what i replaced it with, a 458, but they felt worlds apart when driving and pitching into a corner

a 3000 pound mid engine naturally aspirated car is going to feel alot different compared to a 3800 pound FR turbo car. thats where the subjective stuff comes in.

[npirnia]

Originally Posted by NotSharocks

I mean why is a 2 door "small" coupe close to 4k pounds?

You can add all the power in the world but the physics of being heavy still matter lol

Same reasons as usual - as is the norm of the past 10+ years.

It’s the same for some older cars too, like the 550 Maranello, Aston Martin V12 Vantage, SLS, etc. And those cars are dimensionally smaller than the M2 and similar power outputs. Most of them are also slower…

BMW is prioritizing electric and doesn’t seem interested in innovating on the ICE side of things. As such, they have a healthy parts bin of robust components that they use to build their M cars. And now that all their M cars are 500-700 bhp (in reality, not “as rated”), parts need to be very tough to withstand those outputs and not break all the time. So the cars are heavy…

Plus, BMW wants all their cars (so it seems) to be very quiet and have excellent NVH. That doesn’t help matters.

I would have wanted BMWs last ICE car to be better optimized and made of more bespoke parts, but that’s not what the company chose. Probably logical when they regard ICE cars as a dead end (hence this is the last pure ICE car).

Also, I have a nagging suspicion that BMW left several good opportunities to save weight that will be applied to the CS. My guess is that it will be 150-200 lbs lighter than the base G87 to push lots of us to buy the new car. Between carbon ceramic brakes, standard carbon bits, lighter hood, forged wheels, there are quite a few ways to get the weight down to 3600ish.

BMW is in business to sell cars after all.

-Nick

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by npirnia

Also, I have a nagging suspicion that BMW left several good opportunities to save weight that will be applied to the CS. My guess is that it will be 150-200 lbs lighter than the base G87 to push lots of us to buy the new car.

I totally agree with everything you said, except the quoted part. I'm not sure I'd bet on this.

It's totally possible they could cut some weight in the CS, but that's not what they did with the F87. They cut weight, then added it back in as performance improvements.

Same thing with the base G87, really. They started with a G82, cut some weight, but then added performance improvements back in.

It would be cool if they cut weight, then added the DCT back in. That would be a kick ass G87CS. Unlikely to happen, but we can dream.

[babym_gen]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Same thing with the base G87, really. They started with a G82, cut some weight, but then added performance improvements back in.

How come? My understanding is that the G87 is essentially a G82 with a different wheel base and suspension setup (spring rate and such).

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by babym_gen

How come? My understanding is that the G87 is essentially a G82 with a different wheel base and suspension setup (spring rate and such).

The why is simple, but people don't want to hear it.

You can, in fact, often get more performance by adding weight, rather than removing it.

I've forgotten the exact video, but before the G87 released, Horatiu from BMWBLOG interviewed BMW execs about the G87. They talked about weight. It's on ytube somewhere. The TLDR was that they added extra structural bracing on the lower subframes, engine bay, and C pillars. That rigidity made the G87 stiffer and more planted, more tossable.

I think in the F87 CS, it was to add rigidity and the DCT, which I guess was quite heavy. https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/11/23/b...2-competition/

[swagon]

TL;DR: "probs the best driving bmw with a manual, G87 has lost the fizz"

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Squidget

The why is simple, but people don't want to hear it.

The why is even simpler.

The G20 chassis, on which all of these cars are based on, is overweight to begin with. Unfortunately, they feel substantial in corners; not that you feel the heft in the cheaped out interior, for instance.

And BMW M GmbH did not put as much emphasis on adding lightness as they did with the F80. Bracing, yes, that's what they do with every M2-M5.

But, truthfully, BMW M cars have never really been lightweight. That comes with age.