[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by Ilyam5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCUjKAENGXk&t=4s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56e2NPQvzV4

A front wheel drive, 4 cylinder car for $55,000? Yikes.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by OGM2SG Throwaway

I just test drove the Integra Type S. Some initial impressions after testing driving the G87 and owning my F87 OG. I'm not a pro so don't roast me and this was a relatively brief test drive.

This is taken from the perspective of a year round DD.

Steering feel: Best in the Integra. Weight definitely does a make big difference. There was less on center play vs my M2 which is already fairly taught. Steering weights up really well and the steering rack has a good steering speed.

Shifter/Trans feel: Definitely better than both M2s. That said, I don't think it's as much of a difference as outlets play on. I'd say it's roughly 20% better if I had to assign a number to it. Was very easy to get into and drive. Auto Rev match did not feel as "exciting" and quick as either M2 though. Clutch feel was good but not infinitely better than either M2 either IMO. Definitely much shorter travel. I will say there was more rev hang than I expected.

Power: I didn't redline this or push it very hard, but has tons of torque in the mid-range. This is more than enough for public roads. I didn't experience any torque steer but was also not punching this off the line.

General driving: Integra feels extremely planted. The M2's definitely float a bit, this feels like it stuck to the ground better. I didn't take any extremely quick corners but the quicker corners I did take I did not notice any understeer, it was very neutral. I think you would really need to hamfist the car to induce significant understeer on public roads. Turn in actually feels sharper than my M2. Not as good as the new M2 but in general it's very good. Suspension is good, not on par with new M2 with the adaptive dampers but better than F87 I would say. I would need more time with the car to really get into specifics though.

Sound: This is where the f87 really shines. The Integra sounds decent, some pops/bangs when you warm it up, but it has absolutely nothing on the N55. S58 sounds significantly better than the Type S but the N55 is far better than both IMO. I expected this coming into a 4cyl platform but it was a bigger difference than expected when I got back in my car.

Interior: Very useable but a massive step down from the G87. You really feel a large difference here and the tech is on a different level on the new M2. It's generally on the same level as the F87 I would say. No gimics though and the sound system is far better than both of the Harmon Kardon units. The hatch is extremely usable and it has usable back seats. This isn't a huge concern for me but it's a big plus for most vs the M2s. Seats are pretty good and the alcantara add on felt great.

Looks: I'm a huge fan of the styling. Looks far, far better than the new M2 (don't kill me) and I would say it's on par with my F87. Looks aggressive enough but isn't boy racer like the Fk8.

In general I think this car is a lot of fun as a DD and I don't think I would miss my F87 and it certainly has more "feel" than the G87. I get why Mark from SG would comment that the new M2 is too isolated/dull after driving the Type S. That said, the G87 is far better as a luxury car. Many will dismiss this for being a 4cyl fwd car but I implore you to take a spin.

I'm likely pivoting from the new M2 and going to pick one of these if I can find for for MSRP (probably need to wait/shop around) and spend the savings on an E46 or E36. I will definitely miss the sound of the F87 so I am also considering just sticking with my F87 for the time being as well. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't miss my M badge.

Apologies for the ramblings.

Congrats and good luck! I hope you find one.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by OGM2SG Throwaway

Apologies for the ramblings.

See ya.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by OGM2SG Throwaway

I just test drove the Integra Type S.

(stuff)

I'm glad you liked the Integra, if it's enough car for you then, great, you saved a lot of money! It's a great slow fast car.

I would note that if you only got to test drive the G87, you didn't see its primary advantage over the ITS and F87: the G87 is an incredibly planted and precise chassis. Especially, it can put a ton of power to the ground without losing any control.

It's both a pro and con that the G87 (like the other G8xs) is so controllable, predictable, stable and precise. It is effective, but also boring at anything less than 9/10s. It is the opposite of the slow fast ethos.

[OGM2SG Throwaway]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I'm glad you liked the Integra, if it's enough car for you then, great, you saved a lot of money! It's a great slow fast car.

I would note that if you only got to test drive the G87, you didn't see its primary advantage over the ITS and F87: the G87 is an incredibly planted and precise chassis. Especially, it can put a ton of power to the ground without losing any control.

It's both a pro and con that the G87 (like the other G8xs) is so controllable, predictable, stable and precise. It is effective, but also boring at anything less than 9/10s. It is the opposite of the slow fast ethos.

Yeah I would revise my statement to that end as the G87 was in fact extremely planted. Once again, it's a fantastic luxury coupe, and I don't have a lot of knocks on the car itself, it just depends on what you're looking for.

In essence I wouldn't knock the Type S for being FWD and I think the reviews speak for themselves.

[StickyPickle]

Lamborghini Revuelto, I didn’t feel like waiting until the end of 2023 to get one so went with the M2 instead.

[LCDRJohn]

I cross shopped the Supra 6 -speed and the Caddy Blackwing 4 thingy. (I never get that; "CTV/CT4/Etc" thing correct.

The supra was a disaster to try to get on a list for one or even see one. The toyota dealers are used to playing those kiddy games with street racers types. They try to manipulate the market and buyer just a wee too much. It is almost like they don't even understand how to sell a $60K car. After months of getting jerked around, I figured it was a sign from God to stay away from toyota unless I am buying a cheap SUV.

The Caddy was almost as bad. The local dealers in NJ all had pumped the prices to the sky. One would not even mention a price until I came physically to the dealer, and I was a reg customer of that dealership. All were pumping the prices to silly levels and could not guarantee even getting one.

Either way, both were #2 on the list behind the M2, so I figured "why bother"? My local BMW dealer stepped up and made a square deal. No BS and I got on a list. And they know how to treat someone who buys a nice car.

As a side note, Iput some $ down on an Emira, but I am getting that back. I read just 1/4 of their forums and those cars are utter garbage. Reminds me that I should just bought one of the Brand new Evoras that were sitting unsold for 2 years at a 40% discount. But that was before we had to beg for cars! LOL!

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by OGM2SG Throwaway

I just test drove the Integra Type S. Some initial impressions after testing driving the G87 and owning my F87 OG. I'm not a pro so don't roast me and this was a relatively brief test drive.

the ITS is a great car. i've driven the base civic and its amazing how good of a dd it is. like the smoking tire video that just came out had alot of praise for it. especially the shifter and steering. they did a direct comparo to the M2 in video saying the integra feels lighter on its feet and more eager to turn in (something like a whiffle ball bat compared to a sledgehammer).

But the huge downside is you are paying $50k for a 1.5 liter fwd car running on a civic chassis. though that might be offset a bit by the fact it will probably hold value better than a non-CS M product.

[VT Skier]

I just drove the ITS (2.0L Turbo Four w/320 HP at 3,200 lbs) and it's a great driver's car. Powertrain, suspension, brakes, just killer. Terrific feel on the clutch and gear shift. Shifting in the CT4-V BW is good, but Honda/Acura is better. And you really have to be going crazy to feel any torque steer, which is remarkable.

Cheap and noisy inside, more Honda than Acura, but that's about what I expected.

Great daily driver, and $16K cheaper than my M2 build.

The M2 is superior in almost every way, and should be for the money.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by EXE46

It's priced right in line with BMW's own M235i GC, that's the benchmark and that POS bimmer is more of a let down at anything above 40K. Acura also benchmarked the S3 and A45 none of which offers a manual so the car is priced right and appears to be a stellar car.

At 40k, sure. Not at $50,000+. Once you add taxes and interest, you’re looking at $60,000 for what is basically a luxury Civic. You might as well look for a used Cadillac CT4BW at that point if you want a 4 door manual.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

At 40k, sure. Not at $50,000+. Once you add taxes and interest, you’re looking at $60,000 for what is basically a luxury Civic. You might as well look for a used Cadillac CT4BW at that point if you want a 4 door manual.

As I mentioned BMW own's M235i sells for the same money, the ITS is not an M2 competitor. As enthusiasts we should give credit where it's due. BMW for one has veered too far towards luxury versus driver engagement. The only reason I wouldn't buy the ITS is because the styling doesn't resonate with me. Regardless, it's looking like a stellar driver's car regardless of badge or lack of luxury appointments.

PS. ITS starts at 51,995 USD (including destination charges and that's has all options except heated steering and a bunch of optional accessories).

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by EXE46

As I mentioned BMW own's M235i sells for the same money, the ITS is not an M2 competitor. As enthusiasts we should give credit where it's due. BMW for one has veered too far towards luxury versus driver engagement. The only reason I wouldn't buy the ITS is because the styling doesn't resonate with me. Regardless, it's looking like a stellar driver's car regardless of badge or lack of luxury appointments.

PS. ITS starts at 51,995 USD (including destination charges and that's has all options except heated steering and a bunch of optional accessories).

Ah. My bad. I didn’t know it was $5 cheaper. Now it makes a lot of sense.

[RoccoVA]

I cross shopped the Cadillac CT4 Blackwing with the manual transmission. Both the M2 and the Caddy were within about $1k of each other MSRP, but the BMW blew the BW out of the water with the interior. I also felt like the M2 drove better and had tons of tech for the same price.

[RoccoVA]

Ive owned about 11 Acuras in my lifetime, all of them were 2008 or older, and 3 Honda s2000's and I can vouch that the old Honda/Acura products had some of the nicest shifting (manual) transmissions out there. Very satisfying. I believe it was Car and Driver who described the shifter in the RSX-S as "clairvoyant". Although those cars were when you could buy a Type S for like $26k new. I honestly miss the old Acura. Wonderful cars, solid build, value for money, and fun to drive. They really checked all the boxes.

Originally Posted by OGM2SG Throwaway

I just test drove the Integra Type S. Some initial impressions after testing driving the G87 and owning my F87 OG. I'm not a pro so don't roast me and this was a relatively brief test drive.

This is taken from the perspective of a year round DD.

Steering feel: Best in the Integra. Weight definitely does a make big difference. There was less on center play vs my M2 which is already fairly taught. Steering weights up really well and the steering rack has a good steering speed.

Shifter/Trans feel: Definitely better than both M2s. That said, I don't think it's as much of a difference as outlets play on. I'd say it's roughly 20% better if I had to assign a number to it. Was very easy to get into and drive. Auto Rev match did not feel as "exciting" and quick as either M2 though. Clutch feel was good but not infinitely better than either M2 either IMO. Definitely much shorter travel. I will say there was more rev hang than I expected.

Power: I didn't redline this or push it very hard, but has tons of torque in the mid-range. This is more than enough for public roads. I didn't experience any torque steer but was also not punching this off the line.

General driving: Integra feels extremely planted. The M2's definitely float a bit, this feels like it stuck to the ground better. I didn't take any extremely quick corners but the quicker corners I did take I did not notice any understeer, it was very neutral. I think you would really need to hamfist the car to induce significant understeer on public roads. Turn in actually feels sharper than my M2. Not as good as the new M2 but in general it's very good. Suspension is good, not on par with new M2 with the adaptive dampers but better than F87 I would say. I would need more time with the car to really get into specifics though.

Sound: This is where the f87 really shines. The Integra sounds decent, some pops/bangs when you warm it up, but it has absolutely nothing on the N55. S58 sounds significantly better than the Type S but the N55 is far better than both IMO. I expected this coming into a 4cyl platform but it was a bigger difference than expected when I got back in my car.

Interior: Very useable but a massive step down from the G87. You really feel a large difference here and the tech is on a different level on the new M2. It's generally on the same level as the F87 I would say. No gimics though and the sound system is far better than both of the Harmon Kardon units. The hatch is extremely usable and it has usable back seats. This isn't a huge concern for me but it's a big plus for most vs the M2s. Seats are pretty good and the alcantara add on felt great.

Looks: I'm a huge fan of the styling. Looks far, far better than the new M2 (don't kill me) and I would say it's on par with my F87. Looks aggressive enough but isn't boy racer like the Fk8.

In general I think this car is a lot of fun as a DD and I don't think I would miss my F87 and it certainly has more "feel" than the G87. I get why Mark from SG would comment that the new M2 is too isolated/dull after driving the Type S. That said, the G87 is far better as a luxury car. Many will dismiss this for being a 4cyl fwd car but I implore you to take a spin.

I'm likely pivoting from the new M2 and going to pick one of these if I can find for for MSRP (probably need to wait/shop around) and spend the savings on an E46 or E36. I will definitely miss the sound of the F87 so I am also considering just sticking with my F87 for the time being as well. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't miss my M badge.

Apologies for the ramblings.

[Chet for short]

Originally Posted by OGM2SG Throwaway

I just test drove the Integra Type S. Some initial impressions after testing driving the G87 and owning my F87 OG. I'm not a pro so don't roast me and this was a relatively brief test drive.

This is taken from the perspective of a year round DD.

Steering feel: Best in the Integra. Weight definitely does a make big difference. There was less on center play vs my M2 which is already fairly taught. Steering weights up really well and the steering rack has a good steering speed.

Shifter/Trans feel: Definitely better than both M2s. That said, I don't think it's as much of a difference as outlets play on. I'd say it's roughly 20% better if I had to assign a number to it. Was very easy to get into and drive. Auto Rev match did not feel as "exciting" and quick as either M2 though. Clutch feel was good but not infinitely better than either M2 either IMO. Definitely much shorter travel. I will say there was more rev hang than I expected.

Power: I didn't redline this or push it very hard, but has tons of torque in the mid-range. This is more than enough for public roads. I didn't experience any torque steer but was also not punching this off the line.

General driving: Integra feels extremely planted. The M2's definitely float a bit, this feels like it stuck to the ground better. I didn't take any extremely quick corners but the quicker corners I did take I did not notice any understeer, it was very neutral. I think you would really need to hamfist the car to induce significant understeer on public roads. Turn in actually feels sharper than my M2. Not as good as the new M2 but in general it's very good. Suspension is good, not on par with new M2 with the adaptive dampers but better than F87 I would say. I would need more time with the car to really get into specifics though.

Sound: This is where the f87 really shines. The Integra sounds decent, some pops/bangs when you warm it up, but it has absolutely nothing on the N55. S58 sounds significantly better than the Type S but the N55 is far better than both IMO. I expected this coming into a 4cyl platform but it was a bigger difference than expected when I got back in my car.

Interior: Very useable but a massive step down from the G87. You really feel a large difference here and the tech is on a different level on the new M2. It's generally on the same level as the F87 I would say. No gimics though and the sound system is far better than both of the Harmon Kardon units. The hatch is extremely usable and it has usable back seats. This isn't a huge concern for me but it's a big plus for most vs the M2s. Seats are pretty good and the alcantara add on felt great.

Looks: I'm a huge fan of the styling. Looks far, far better than the new M2 (don't kill me) and I would say it's on par with my F87. Looks aggressive enough but isn't boy racer like the Fk8.

In general I think this car is a lot of fun as a DD and I don't think I would miss my F87 and it certainly has more "feel" than the G87. I get why Mark from SG would comment that the new M2 is too isolated/dull after driving the Type S. That said, the G87 is far better as a luxury car. Many will dismiss this for being a 4cyl fwd car but I implore you to take a spin.

I'm likely pivoting from the new M2 and going to pick one of these if I can find for for MSRP (probably need to wait/shop around) and spend the savings on an E46 or E36. I will definitely miss the sound of the F87 so I am also considering just sticking with my F87 for the time being as well. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't miss my M badge.

Apologies for the ramblings.

but the only way to have power oversteer is in reverse...

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Chet for short

but the only way to have power oversteer is in reverse...

You can get lots of oversteer in a FWD car with the right tyre combo. We took a stock Toyota Echo on the track last week with R-Comp 205 wide front tyres at 35 PSI and all-season 185 wide rear tyres at 45 PSI. Lots of tail out and corner entry drifting capability with that config.

[DocOfTheDead]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i cross shopped the g80, supra, lc500, gt350, and f87c

ended up going with a f87c dct. lc500 close second.

Totally different driving experience than a BMW but damn do I love my LC. Imma keep it forever. I was considering the M2 when I ordered the M4. It was a tough choice. But now I’m considering keeping the M4 until I can trade it in for a Lotus Emira.

[Chet for short]

Originally Posted by aerobod

You can get lots of oversteer in a FWD car with the right tyre combo. We took a stock Toyota Echo on the track last week with R-Comp 205 wide front tyres at 35 PSI and all-season 185 wide rear tyres at 45 PSI. Lots of tail out and corner entry drifting capability with that config.

Yep - lift throttle and simple oversteer, just not power oversteer. I used to autox a Mk2 GTI. I had toe out in the rear to get it to oversteer.

[m20e3087]

Test drove the type S. It took me back to my 2002 RSX-S and S2000 days. it’s been over 20 years. Haven’t driven the G87 M2 but I don’t think BMW can touch the shifter feel of this manual. It’s old school Acura box. . If you ever owned old school Acura S or S2000, go test drive one, it will for sure take you back.
Not an alternative for me but Acura did an amazing job with this Type-S.

[JCZ5]

True story, GT3.

Loved my F87 M2 and looking forward to the new one. Put my name on both BMW and Porsche lists. Luck would have it, got the call for the GT3.

Still want to get a M2 down the line. Have my name on the M2CS, but maybe when my X5 craps out, the M2 may be it’s replacement.

Main point is cross shopping does not have to be defined as a car’s direct competitor…when I purchased my F87 M2, I cross shopped with a ND Miata. Even got as far as waiting for the Miata to arrive from Port to the dealership.