[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

That’s great. It doesn’t change the fact that an M2 starts at $62,200, vs a Cayman S at $80,000 and a Cayman GTS at $95,000. You’re straight up making up numbers when the difference is nearly $30,000 unless you plan to be stuck with a 4 banger.

So you are making ad hominem claims based on the incorrect premises..?

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

That’s great. It doesn’t change the fact that an M2 starts at $62,200, vs a Cayman S at $80,000 and a Cayman GTS at $95,000. You’re straight up making up numbers when the difference is nearly $30,000 unless you plan to be stuck with a 4 banger.

I gotta agree with Ravenseal here. You can't just add arbitrary numbers onto the base M2. ESPECIALLY when the base Cayman is missing a lot of features, and options are incredibly expensive. The M2 has a ton of standard features*, and relatively few options. And what it has are not Porsche-level expensive.

*in USA anyway

When you start talking options, the price gap between the M2 and Caymans only gets wider.

I just don't think there's any world where an apples-to-apples comparison has these car within $20K of each other. Doesn't strike me as a legit cross shop.

I mean, if I had a $90K+ budget, I wouldn't have bought an M2, is all I'm sayin.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Question from a #2 guy:
If your focus is 90% on fun, why is the M2 a more compelling offer than the Cayman?

Honest quwstion.

I think I’d be in a Cayman if I was cross shopping these cars.

Great question and how this discussion should have gone in the first place.
1. For those who are able to handle the extra weight (in whichever way: weight reduction, suspension tuning, etc..) S58 engine is a very potent platform.
2. Tuning parts are generally easier to find with BMWs, so more parts availability for trackdays
3. Understatement, for me gives additional joy. Sometimes you get tired of people saying "Oh he drives a Porsche." with a mispronounced -Sche.
4. Higher ground clearance. NYC can be brutal on lowered cars.

On the other hand, Cayman offers pure sports car experience that no other manufacturer quite captures the way it does. This is more intangibles than pure numbers.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Based on this post, there are primarily two demographics:

1. Buying M2 for 90% fun and 10% practicality(more value on fun)
2. Buying M2 for 60% fun and 40% practicality(more value on practicality)

1. is generally for people who have multiple cars and 2. is for those who want one-car-do-it-all. I don't think it's silly comparison at all, because what people look for in these cars is different.

Except why would #1 buy an M2 at all, if you didn't need the practicality? That's the POINT of modern M cars, they are do-it-all cars including the practicality/comfort part, and you are paying for all that.

Edit: just saw your post,
If you don't want those parts, aren't you overpaying for something you won't use?

You can get a more fun car for less (hello, Supra) if practicality/luxury isn't your concern, is my point.

Edit: Just saw your post kyrix1st, thanks for your explanation of what you want, that helps.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I gotta agree with Ravenseal here. You can't just add arbitrary numbers onto the base M2. ESPECIALLY when the base Cayman is missing a lot of features, and options are incredibly expensive. The M2 has a ton of standard features*, and relatively few options. And what it has are not Porsche-level expensive.

*in USA anyway

When you start talking options, the price gap between the M2 and Caymans only gets wider.

I just don't think there's any world where an apples-to-apples comparison has these car within $20K of each other. Doesn't strike me as a legit cross shop.

I mean, if I had a $90K+ budget, I wouldn't have bought an M2, is all I'm sayin.

Under what standards do you define what is legitimate and illegitimate cross-shop? If we are strictly talking money, I spec out car A and car B, to my satisfaction, and compare numbers. I made a cross-shop claim completely based on certain premises, upon which he added his assumptions.
So you agree with his claims based on those unstated and unnecessary assumptions?

Originally Posted by Squidget

Except why would #1 buy an M2 at all, if you didn't need the practicality? That's the POINT of modern M cars, they are do-it-all cars including the practicality/comfort part, and you are paying for all that.

If you don't want those parts, aren't you overpaying for something you won't use?

You can get a more fun car for less (hello, Supra) if practicality/luxury isn't your concern, is my point.

My other post addresses that.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

On the other hand, Cayman offers pure sports car experience that no other manufacturer quite captures the way it does. This is more intangibles than pure numbers.

The pure numbers are quite good too. I don't think anyone is arguing that they are bad sports cars.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Under what standards do you define what is legitimate and illegitimate cross-shop? If we are strictly talking money, I spec out car A and car B, to my satisfaction, and compare numbers.

Generally I'd say it's a cross-shop if you have two cars fulfilling the same function (for the buyer) for roughly the same money.

The part I did not get (past tense) in your comparison was that even if you optioned up the M2, and stripped down the Cayman so the prices are close, they are still providing very different capabilities and experiences.

For example, optioning up a Ducati till it costs as much as an M2 can be done, but in my eyes it's not a real cross-shop. I consider cross-shops to be more apples-to-apples, not apples-to-equivalently-priced oranges. IMO of course.

Your list of "wants" helped clarify. It's an interesting list. I never heard of ground clearance as being a pro of an M2, and I drive on Boston roads.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Squidget

.........
Your list of "wants" helped clarify. It's an interesting list. I never heard of ground clearance as being a pro of an M2, and I drive on Boston roads.

Let's just say it's the difference between being cautious of those terrible potholes all the time vs. only some of the time. They are both low, but one is better than the other.

[aassad1]

I cross shopped a GTS 4.0 and the g87 and from a cost to peformance perspective the argument goes out the window pretty quickly. The GTS 4.0 is 100% an objectively better car but you can't get one, and even if you can if you are specing them out comparitvely you are taking 110k+ vs 75k. That is a significant difference. I just picked up my G87 and adore it, b7t yeah if I could have a GTS 4.0 for the same price I'd take it.

[aerobod]

I’m quite happy my lightly optioned M2 (carbon roof is the only major option) was CAD$85,500 (USD $64K) on the road, taxes etc included.

I’ve ridden in both a 718 GT4 and GT4 RS on the track with owners driving them hard. They are both a definite upgrade for track use compared with the M2/3/4, but the RS is significantly more capable than any other Cayman, leaving the other variants as a bit of a disappointment. The thing is there is little extra usable performance for sporting road use compared with the M2 and a lot less practicality for everyday needs. My M2 likely won’t see track use, as I have a more suitable car for that duty.

I rode in a club members GT4 RS on a track day yesterday, the no option price for the car was CAD$188K, but the standard 20” centrelock wheels are too big for proper track rubber and the front brakes are too big for 19” wheels, so AP brakes are required for the front with a set of wider centrelock wheels with 265 front / 305 rear tyres, an additional CAD $25K plus options taking the on the road price to over CAD $250K (USD $188K). A very nice car, but lots of other good alternatives are available at a price triple that of a base M2.