[Tyga11]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

My DW is a municipal water plant operator, and I get to hear the challenges of juggling water between six different water towers in a hilly locale to keep the pressures up and supplies full every single day. The combined system can only process/move/store so much water, and having every fire truck in the LA region drawing from hydrants and thousands of homeowners running their garden hoses trying to save their houses is obviously more than the system was ever designed to handle. But, what the heck do I know.



I saw a TV interview on the UK news of a younger guy who lost his house. Because of blackouts, he had to change hotels four times so far since evacuating. His projected timeline is a minimum of three years to just sort through the insurance mess to start the rebuild process, and his family is actively searching for another house to buy instead of watching the horrors on the TV news. I can only imagine what house prices will look like in the aftermath of this disaster, and am wondering if the cities involved will even let the people rebuild at the current property densities?????

I'm not questioning your expertise however I am always skeptical when I hear government officials covering for themselves. The first people to come out and use the theory you are suggesting was the LAFD chief. California has dealt with wild fires for decades now. If what you are saying is true, it's surprising. They were basically sitting ducks.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

A friend since 4th grade lived in Palisades. He had 2 houses, right next door to each other. This is all that’s left. Total loss.

The houses behind are untouched?

[BMWGUYinCO]

Originally Posted by NSXR

The houses behind are untouched?

See, the winds whip burning embers that fly through the air, and where they land can be indiscriminate. On one street just two blocks from us, the ENTIRE ROW of homes were gone. On the next street over, only one home along the entire block burned down (and it was in the middle of the row).

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

If what you are saying is true, it's surprising. They were basically sitting ducks.

It's not surprising at all. William Mulholland's century-old water system was not designed for today's urban sprawl and over-development in the LA basin, just like the power grid is not capable of supplying worst-case electric demands without rolling blackouts.

I served on our town's comprehensive plan committee to re-write the 10-year growth plan, and building density per acre is a huge deal that we and urban planners needed to factor in for water, sewer, schools, traffic, etc. Obviously, stacking houses one on top of the other and then adding accessory dwelling units (pool houses with separate residents) is a recipe for urban planning disasters, and I for one am not surprised at the results.....

[Tyga11]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

It's not surprising at all. William Mulholland's century-old water system was not designed for today's urban sprawl and over-development in the LA basin, just like the power grid is not capable of supplying worst-case electric demands without rolling blackouts.

I served on our town's comprehensive plan committee to re-write the 10-year growth plan, and building density per acre is a huge deal that we and urban planners needed to factor in for water, sewer, schools, traffic, etc. Obviously, stacking houses one on top of the other and then adding accessory dwelling units (pool houses with separate residents) is a recipe for urban planning disasters, and I for one am not surprised at the results.....

I was being sarcastic. People in California pay a ton in taxes. This is what they get for it. You get who you vote for though

[UncleWede]

Speaking of urban sprawl, and containing it. I am on the board of a small mutual water company. We supply water to 2 blocks on 2 streets. The local fire code changed a few years ago and we now are in a building moratorium. The code says we basically need 100,000 gallon tank before we can build again. We used to be able to claim the water in the aquafer as fire flow storage. The change was because even if we have a generator to run the pumps, those can fail too during a fire, so it all has to be gravity-fed to supply 50 gal/minute for 2 hours. If anyone wants to contribute to our GoFundMe for $1.2m, I'll send you a link Our current 2 tanks hold a total of 5000.

In Palisades, they not only couldn't refill those 3 MILLION gallons, but to push it up hill to the hydrants requires pumps, that require electricity, which was cut/failed due to fires.

We are upgrading a small section of our main pipes to go from 4" to 6". For about 300 linear' it's running us upwards of $800k, and our street is basically flat. Palisades is some very hilly areas, so replacing the original main lines to those 3 tanks would be horrendously expensive, and with the new Prop 218 requirements, the public has to approve any proposed rate increases.

3 MILLION gallons of water, and it didn't put a dent in those fires. Once the winds died down, the aerial assault could be used. Those can get water from reservoirs that hold 100s m gallons of water, or even the local pools, as fast as they can suck them up into the belly of the aircraft.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by hubbahubba

A friend since 4th grade lived in Palisades. He had 2 houses, right next door to each other. This is all that’s left. Total loss.

Would hit the appreciate button but that doesn’t seem appropriate. Awful to see but at least they are safe.

[Esteban]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Would hit the appreciate button but that doesn’t seem appropriate. Awful to see but at least they are safe.

Sometimes hitting the appreciate button means you're showing support, like you might do for a sick member who posts about his illness. At least that's how I see it.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by Esteban

Sometimes hitting the appreciate button means you're showing support, like you might do for a sick member who posts about his illness. At least that's how I see it.

I know, my comment was not meant as a criticism of those who did appreciate.

[hubbahubba]

My buddy’s son’s Instagram. Absolutely heartbreaking.

[Esteban]

Wow, that's really something, Hubba. So sorry for them, and all that lost their homes.

[Esteban]

Los Angeles County Sheriff Robert Luna confirmed five deaths between the Pacific Palisades and Eaton Fire. He said the death toll will change. Luna had previously said that all five deaths were from the Eaton Fire. Malibu Mayor Doug Smith has also confirmed one additional death.

https://www.cnn.com/weather/live-new...tional%20death.

[jmg]

We are hosting friends and family at our house, which is not in an evac zone. In an attempt to lighten the mood we left the christmas lights on and called it the 2025 LA is On Fire party. We watched from their ring camera as the embers got increasingly brutal and then all of a sudden bright lights just off camera. It was the house next door burning down. Scary af.

[vreihen16]

I imagine that Sedan_Clan is safe, and banking enough OT pay on traffic and looter detail to buy his next Porsche cash.

Two pieces of news from the LA TV news talking heads:

1) The LA Sheriff's Department has requested National Guard assistance for looter patrols.

2) One of Quebec's Super Scoopers was damaged this afternoon by a drone collision to its wing, and is grounded for the time being. The FAA told reporters to ask Cal-Fire for details, who has not made a statement yet. My gut feeling is that the drone was being operated by a fire department, based on the press runaround.....

[bayarea328xit]

From the Instagram post above: Are there really people without fire insurance living in that area? It is a nice neighborhood - how can this be real? Madness...

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

The local fire code changed a few years ago and we now are in a building moratorium. The code says we basically need 100,000 gallon tank before we can build again.

Is there space for a community swimming pool at a high spot? An olympic-sized pool holds over 600K gallons, so a smaller community-sized pool with a stand pipe or an emergency drain into the water mains should be easy enough...cheaper than a steel tower...and serve the community if everyone doesn't already have their own pools.

If there is no high spot for a pool, I can see an elevated water tank being crazy expensive but (as everyone can see if they turn on a TV this week) necessary.....

[Reborn_]

Originally Posted by bayarea328xit

From the Instagram post above: Are there really people without fire insurance living in that area? It is a nice neighborhood - how can this be real? Madness...

Palisades is a wealthy area. Many who have a paid off home don't keep insurance. Remember, in nice areas of SoCal, the value is in the land, not the dwelling.

My family is impacted, unfortunately. All are safe, though.

[UncleWede]

Many who don't have insurance were recently CANCELED by the companies that want to bail out of Cali.

Before his death 2 year ago, my dad quit carrying insurance on the retreat cabin. For a while after his death I checked and nobody would even write a policy. Now its about $7500/6 months for fire only. ROI is about 10 years to rebuild . . .

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

Is there space for a community swimming pool at a high spot?

High spot is about 3' above the low spot in the community
I do like the outside thinking though!

[2000cs]

So several thousand homes are gone. Some thoughts on rebuilding.
1. Near the beaches, the Coastal Commission will be at best a bottleneck and likely will try to prevent rebuilding.
2. Demand for architects will be high, and it will take a long time to get plans drawn up.
3. Permitting (local jurisdiction) will be badly bottlenecked and take a very long time to complete, especially if changes are required to the plans
4. Water availability/limitations may impact the ability to rebuild.
5. Contractors, especially the good ones, will be in high demand, another bottleneck. Some materials may be short as well.
6. So, 3 years seems a reasonable estimate to have a home to move into. During that time rentals will be in high demand, pushing up prices and pushing out current tenants
7. Once the home is rebuilt, the property will be reassessed. My understanding is under CA law (Prop 13) the property is assessed at market value if remodeled and two walls are not remaining. Otherwise the property tax can only increase a small percentage each year. So it is possible some will see property taxes double, triple or even increase ten-fold; forcing many to sell. Similarly, if someone chooses to buy and not rebuild (sell the fire lot), they will pay property taxes at the purchase price of the new property and not the tax basis of the burned property. SEE CORRECTION IN EDIT BELOW

This disaster will keep on for a while.

EDIT: Apparently a homeowner that loses their home because of a wildfire can take their property tax assessment with them to a new home or into their rebuilt home if they do that within two years. I doubt any homes will be rebuilt within two years for the reasons mentioned above, but wanted to correct #7.

[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Speaking of urban sprawl, and containing it. I am on the board of a small mutual water company. We supply water to 2 blocks on 2 streets. The local fire code changed a few years ago and we now are in a building moratorium. The code says we basically need 100,000 gallon tank before we can build again. We used to be able to claim the water in the aquafer as fire flow storage. The change was because even if we have a generator to run the pumps, those can fail too during a fire, so it all has to be gravity-fed to supply 50 gal/minute for 2 hours. If anyone wants to contribute to our GoFundMe for $1.2m, I'll send you a link Our current 2 tanks hold a total of 5000.

In Palisades, they not only couldn't refill those 3 MILLION gallons, but to push it up hill to the hydrants requires pumps, that require electricity, which was cut/failed due to fires.

We are upgrading a small section of our main pipes to go from 4" to 6". For about 300 linear' it's running us upwards of $800k, and our street is basically flat. Palisades is some very hilly areas, so replacing the original main lines to those 3 tanks would be horrendously expensive, and with the new Prop 218 requirements, the public has to approve any proposed rate increases.

3 MILLION gallons of water, and it didn't put a dent in those fires. Once the winds died down, the aerial assault could be used. Those can get water from reservoirs that hold 100s m gallons of water, or even the local pools, as fast as they can suck them up into the belly of the aircraft.

This is very good context compared to the pure crap being spued by some people on social media. The amount of people without actual context blaming the fire department, the government, not removing brush, being proactive with fire prevention, etc. I even heard a famous billionaire talk about how CA is now routing water away from reservoirs (which would have helped better equip firefighters) to help the smelt fish?? Take a step back and look at what is happening and what has happened. It is absolutely horrendous and every one there is trying as hard as they can to help, and I assume no one in leadership positions would just simply avoid reasonable prevention actions to try to avoid something like this.

I cannot imagine the folks who not only lost their home but who didn't have insurance coverage, and who still have a bank loan. Oofda.

[Tyga11]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

So several thousand homes are gone. Some thoughts on rebuilding.
1. Near the beaches, the Coastal Commission will be at best a bottleneck and likely will try to prevent rebuilding.
2. Demand for architects will be high, and it will take a long time to get plans drawn up.
3. Permitting (local jurisdiction) will be badly bottlenecked and take a very long time to complete, especially if changes are required to the plans
4. Water availability/limitations may impact the ability to rebuild.
5. Contractors, especially the good ones, will be in high demand, another bottleneck. Some materials may be short as well.
6. So, 3 years seems a reasonable estimate to have a home to move into. During that time rentals will be in high demand, pushing up prices and pushing out current tenants
7. Once the home is rebuilt, the property will be reassessed. My understanding is under CA law (Prop 13) the property is assessed at market value if remodeled and two walls are not remaining. Otherwise the property tax can only increase a small percentage each year. So it is possible some will see property taxes double, triple or even increase ten-fold; forcing many to sell. Similarly, if someone chooses to buy and not rebuild (sell the fire lot), they will pay property taxes at the purchase price of the new property and not the tax basis of the burned property.

This disaster will keep on for a while.

Why would they build homes there again if there is a huge fire risk? Seems like a huge liability.