[vz2250]

Windows XP

[blue2fire]

lol. Lame as it is, right in principle.

[radix]

Originally Posted by blue2fire

lol. Lame as it is, right in principle.

Except Windows should be the tricycle and the Mac should be the Motorcycle.

[Sanchi]

Originally Posted by blue2fire

lol. Lame as it is, right in principle.

Wow!! I don't think anyone can put it anyway better then this image just did! Noob mac Safety wheels FTL!!

[radix]

Originally Posted by Sanchi

Wow!! I don't think anyone can put it anyway better then this image just did! Noob mac Safety wheels FTL!!

Wow. Lots of misinformation in this thread.

http://www.ditii.com/2010/06/01/goog...curity-issues/

Bunch of n00bs at Google I bet.

$ uname -a | perl -nale 's/$F[1]// and print'
Darwin  10.4.0 Darwin Kernel Version 10.4.0: Fri Apr 23 18:28:53 PDT 2010; root:xnu-1504.7.4~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
$ type ruby
ruby is /opt/local/bin/ruby
$ type gcc
gcc is /usr/bin/gcc
$ type apachectl
apachectl is /usr/sbin/apachectl
$ type ssh
ssh is /usr/bin/ssh
$ type xterm
xterm is /usr/X11/bin/xterm
$ vmmap $$
Virtual Memory Map of process 32106 (bash)
Output report format:  2.2  -- 64-bit process

==== Non-writable regions for process 32106
__TEXT                 0000000100000000-0000000100099000 [  612K] r-x/rwx SM=COW  /bin/bash
__LINKEDIT             00000001000a7000-00000001000b5000 [   56K] r--/rwx SM=COW  /bin/bash
STACK GUARD            00000001000b5000-00000001000b6000 [    4K] ---/rwx SM=NUL  
STACK GUARD            00000001000b7000-00000001000b9000 [    8K] ---/rwx SM=NUL  
STACK GUARD            00000001000c4000-00000001000c6000 [    8K] ---/rwx SM=NUL  
STACK GUARD            00000001000d1000-00000001000d2000 [    4K] ---/rwx SM=NUL  
MALLOC (admin)         00000001000d2000-00000001000d3000 [    4K] r--/rwx SM=COW  
VM_ALLOCATE            00000001000d3000-00000001000d4000 [    4K] r--/rw- SM=ALI  
STACK GUARD            00007fff5bc00000-00007fff5f400000 [ 56.0M] ---/rwx SM=NUL  
__TEXT                 00007fff5fc00000-00007fff5fc3c000 [  240K] r-x/rwx SM=COW  /usr/lib/dyld
__LINKEDIT             00007fff5fc7b000-00007fff5fc8f000 [   80K] r--/rwx SM=COW  /usr/lib/dyld
__TEXT                 00007fff86fbd000-00007fff8717e000 [ 1796K] r-x/r-x SM=COW  ...stem.B.dylib
__TEXT                 00007fff8847c000-00007fff88481000 [   20K] r-x/r-x SM=COW  ...mmon.A.dylib
__TEXT                 00007fff884e8000-00007fff88528000 [  256K] r-x/r-x SM=COW  ...es.5.4.dylib
__TEXT                 00007fff88e7d000-00007fff88f76000 [  996K] r-x/r-x SM=COW  ...conv.2.dylib
__LINKEDIT             00007fff89240000-00007fff8b176000 [ 31.2M] r--/r-- SM=COW  ...mmon.A.dylib

==== Writable regions for process 32106
__DATA                 0000000100099000-00000001000a4000 [   44K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  /bin/bash
__DATA                 00000001000a4000-00000001000a7000 [   12K] rw-/rwx SM=PRV  /bin/bash
MALLOC (admin)         00000001000b6000-00000001000b7000 [    4K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  
MALLOC (admin)         00000001000b9000-00000001000c4000 [   44K] rw-/rwx SM=PRV  
MALLOC (admin)         00000001000c6000-00000001000d1000 [   44K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  
MALLOC_TINY            0000000100100000-0000000100200000 [ 1024K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  ..._0x1000b6000
MALLOC_SMALL           0000000100800000-0000000101000000 [ 8192K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  ..._0x1000b6000
Stack                  00007fff5f400000-00007fff5fc00000 [ 8192K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  thread 0
__DATA                 00007fff5fc3c000-00007fff5fc7b000 [  252K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  /usr/lib/dyld
__DATA                 00007fff70dc8000-00007fff70deb000 [  140K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  ...stem.B.dylib
__DATA                 00007fff7108a000-00007fff7108e000 [   16K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  ...es.5.4.dylib
__DATA                 00007fff71166000-00007fff71168000 [    8K] rw-/rwx SM=COW  ...conv.2.dylib

==== Legend
SM=sharing mode:  
	COW=copy_on_write PRV=private NUL=empty ALI=aliased 
	SHM=shared ZER=zero_filled S/A=shared_alias

==== Summary for process 32106
ReadOnly portion of Libraries: Total=35.2M resident=4308K(12%) swapped_out_or_unallocated=31.0M(88%)
Writable regions: Total=17.1M written=48K(0%) resident=324K(2%) swapped_out=0K(0%) unallocated=16.8M(98%)

REGION TYPE             [ VIRTUAL]
===========             [ =======]
MALLOC                  [   9312K]
STACK GUARD             [   56.0M]
Stack                   [   8192K]
VM_ALLOCATE             [      4K]
__DATA                  [    472K]
__LINKEDIT              [   31.3M]
__TEXT                  [   3920K]
$ vm_stat
Mach Virtual Memory Statistics: (page size of 4096 bytes)
Pages free:                           3851.
Pages active:                       175037.
Pages inactive:                      84356.
Pages speculative:                    2607.
Pages wired down:                   192621.
"Translation faults":           1243736841.
Pages copy-on-write:               4491407.
Pages zero filled:               322092159.
Pages reactivated:                 1438198.
Pageins:                           7086024.
Pageouts:                           183736.
Object cache: 28 hits of 2262046 lookups (0% hit rate)

I guess being able to look into your own processes virtual memory segment is for stupid people. Having a C compiler, Ruby, and Perl preinstalled must be training wheels. Having a webserver preinstalled and ssh capability built in is for n00bs.

Kernel tuning is for idiots I suppose:

$ sysctl -a | egrep 'net.inet.tcp.(send|recv)'
net.inet.tcp.sendspace: 65536
net.inet.tcp.recvspace: 65536
$ sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.sendspace=131072
Password:
net.inet.tcp.sendspace: 65536 -> 131072
$ sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.recvspace=131072
net.inet.tcp.recvspace: 65536 -> 131072
$ sysctl -a | egrep 'net.inet.tcp.(send|recv)'
net.inet.tcp.sendspace: 131072
net.inet.tcp.recvspace: 131072

Go on, tell me about how Mac users need training wheels, I'm listening. Sorry, Macs are for people that really know how to use computers, and want flexibility. Windows is for those who just like to point and click. OK, maybe I'm trolling a bit intentionally, but you get the idea.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by radix

Wow. Lots of misinformation in this thread.

http://www.ditii.com/2010/06/01/goog...curity-issues/

Bunch of n00bs at Google I bet.

...

Go on, tell me about how Mac users need training wheels, I'm listening. Sorry, Macs are for people that really know how to use computers, and want flexibility. Windows is for those who just like to point and click. OK, maybe I'm trolling a bit intentionally, but you get the idea.

The people who think Macs are for noobs still think they look like this and run Mac OS9:

[fatjoez]

Vista was always a superb improvement over XP
Thankfully it's the same story with 7

Currently facing some minor issues with the Tiny version i'm using, namely.. Don't have .NET, don't have "Search" in folders/startmenu/F3 but yeah aside from that generally okay.

Hopefully more versions in future

[Koroush]

Originally Posted by radix

Except Windows should be the tricycle and the Mac should be the Motorcycle.

You don't get it do you?

[radix]

Originally Posted by Koroush

You don't get it do you?

I get it. The point that picture tries to make is nonsense. If you're talking about hardware then I suppose the PC platform is somewhat more flexible, but not much. I can get all the performance I want out of a Mac Pro. I can swap out or upgrade most of the parts as well, but even if I couldn't an 8 way 12GB system is more than enough for most peoples home needs.

I have no problem with PCs themselves. The fact is, hardware has always been the commodity at the home system level. Nowadays, Mac vs PC in hardware terms doesn't even mean that much anymore. FreeBSD on a PC is fine, so is Linux. I run Arch at the moment.

The problem is Windows. Windows is still not very flexible. It really offers nothing for the more advanced user out of the box. For example, OS X now offers Exchange support out of the box, while Windows still doesn't AFAIK. Correct me if I'm wrong.

FWIW, I presently work with Solaris on SPARC and Intel, AIX, SLES on vSphere, RHEL on POWER and Intel, so I suppose I'm biased. I manage about 700 systems.

At home, I've played with BeOS, Plan 9, Minix, probably over 20 different Linux distributions including creating my own, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, BSD 4.4, Solaris 9/10, OpenSolaris, and probably more I'm forgetting.

OS X is one of my favorites though, because Apple did what many people have unsuccessfully tried to do for many years. They made UNIX look and feel nice. Really nice. In the datacenter:

Unix > Windows

Face it, most fortune 500 companies use Unix, and not without good reason. It's been that way for years, and it'll probably stay that way for many years more. For home use, Mac hardware is more or less equivalent to PCs manufactured by other companies, or even those assembled by PC enthusiasts, price point aside. Operating systems, on the other hand, are another matter. OS X is still better than Windows out of the box, and if you don't believe me I'll be happy to go through a step by step comparison of things I can do with a stock Mac, that you can't come close to even with a Windows 7 machine.

[radix]

I guess I forgot to mention OS/2 Warp, and TTBOMK every version of Windows released to the general U.S. public.

I'll just add that a Macbook Pro with an Intel X25-M SSD should consistently get a WEI of 7.6. That's what I meant about the hardware being the commodity for most users. Macbook Pros without SSD get 5.9 or so.

[c0nstant]

radix is literally an android

[radix]

Originally Posted by jh valley

radix is literally an android

That's a new one. I've gotten hacker (both ESR usage and otherwise), Jimmy Neutron, Neo, Spock, and a few others, but never android. I'll take it as a compliment.

[Seminole]

I have a Vaio that is running Vista. I hated it so much that when I bought my new computer I went with a Macbook Pro. There are a little quirks I'm not used to yet, but overall a very good OS.

[abisson]

Originally Posted by radix

That's a new one. I've gotten hacker (both ESR usage and otherwise), Jimmy Neutron, Neo, Spock, and a few others, but never android. I'll take it as a compliment.

I need to finally ask you this. I am in Software Engineering right now, so yes I know a lot about computers, and I have been reading your replies for a while now. You clearly are a competent and intelligent guy who knows what you are talking about. Finally, someone who brings argument and proofs to its affirmations, unlike others saying:

"MAC IS FOR ****, W7 FTWWWWWW".

What is your undergrad and current job?

BTW, you totally sound like a guy who would use Arch (Most competent computer users have seen use Arch, so its a compliment btw )

[radix]

Originally Posted by abisson

I need to finally ask you this. I am in Software Engineering right now, so yes I know a lot about computers, and I have been reading your replies for a while now. You clearly are a competent and intelligent guy who knows what you are talking about. Finally, someone who brings argument and proofs to its affirmations, unlike others saying:

"MAC IS FOR ****, W7 FTWWWWWW".

What is your undergrad and current job?

BTW, you totally sound like a guy who would use Arch (Most competent computer users have seen use Arch, so its a compliment btw )

I never went to college. I went into the Marine Corps after HS as a ELINT Analyst (2631). The systems we used at the time were old SPARCstation 1s and SPARCserver 690MPs running SunOS 4. I took to them like a fish in water. After getting out of the Marines, I got a job as the Sysadmin/Network Engineer for a largish ISP that is now out of business. They also used Sun hardware at the time along with a bunch of routers, switches, and portmasters, largely made by Cisco, Ascent/Lucent, and Bay Area Networks. I maintained sendmail for about 80,000 users and BIND for about 500 domains. It was around this time I started getting heavily into programming as well, mostly Korn shell at first, then Python. I'm no longer any good with Python. In fact, I probably suck at Python now as I use Perl and Ruby exclusively for RAD stuff. Perl because it's ubiquitous, and Ruby because I like it better than Perl.

Somewhere along the line I also got pretty good at security and pen testing.

Anyhow, due to time constraints on tuition grants I never used I had to move back to my home state, so I did. I got a job at a fortune 50 company as a Senior Unix Sysadmin at the time. It was also around this time I picked up Perl, and C. I got pretty heavy into system programming as a hobby. Somewhere along the road I also became pretty proficient at C++ and Ruby as well. I seem to also have been nominated to do a lot of the TimeFinder/SRDF work where I work, but that's subsequently been taken over by our SAN architecture team. My biggest strengths at the moment are troubleshooting, performance tuning, capacity planning, programming, security, and configuration management.

My technical title now is Lead Unix Systems Engineer, and I'm currently working primarily on configuration management, cfengine to be exact.

I'm entirely an autodidact I'm afraid, so I can't tell you what classes I took. As far as books go, I have these on my shelf:

The C Programming Language - K&R
Algorithms in C++ - Sedgewick
TAOCP - Knuth
Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment - Stevens
Unix Network Programming - Stevens
The New Korn Shell Command and Programming Language - Korn
The C++ Programming Language - Stroustrup
Design Patterns - Gang of Four
Compiler Principles and Techniques - The Dragon Book
The Ruby Way - Fulton
Design Patterns in Ruby - Olsen
The Ruby Programming Langage - Matz
TCP/IP Illustrated Vol 1 - Stevens
Solaris Internals - Mauro/McDougall[sp?]

and a few more I can't remember. I've read all of them though, Knuth being the toughest to grok. Sedgewick did a good job of making Knuth a bit more accessible though. MMIX is a PITA.

[hotpants]

Hoorah. 4066 here. I used to but heads with the 2600's over who controls the network hehe

[ValeraK]

Crimson92-Posts: 26,797 omg

[m1tal1k]

Good to know my MAC beats out everything but Windows7

[ideliver]

snow leopard at home (i just updgraded from tiger) and XPpro in my office with SBS2003...i will use these until they die....

I just ditched Outlook for Google apps and could not be happier...everything pushes to iphone4....

[radix]

Originally Posted by Railgun

You're going to tell me that 99% of Mac users have any idea what you just showed or did? (or anyone for that matter).

Come on...

Thank you for highlighting the point I was making, which was, and still is, that Macs aren't just for n00bz.

[ghosthi32]

Originally Posted by Koroush

You don't get it do you?

Don't mess with radix

[ncarter124]

Well, after reading Radix I feel like a complete retard. I'm going to drool on my shirt, fall down the stairs and go to bed now.

Running OSX 10.5.8 (Yes I know, I need to update) and Windows7. 7 is pretty damn good I have to say. I only work with XP at work and am anxiously awaiting our update to 7.