[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by SINasTER

A front wheel drive car shouldn't be awarded the BMW badge!

Stamp a Mini badge on it and everything is going to be fine

Mercedes is doing it with the CLA, A, B class. Audi has been doing it for years with the A4 and A6. BMW is just joining the bandwagon in the name of higher profit margins. I can't blame them, they're a business after all. I just hate the 35 designation though. Thats just wrong.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

As the M2 will go 4cyl, I'm kind of scared that this 4cyl engine will also end up in the M235i as well.

I don't think we'd see that until at least a refresh, if at all in the current F22. It costs too much to re-certify a drive line. Just because they drop it in the Active Tourer doesn't mean it would be automatically certified for the M235i.

In general though, I'd expect the entire 2-series line to go I4 turbo eventually. The unrelenting march of environmental restrictions is pushing everyone that direction.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by NYAWE60

Mercedes is doing it with the CLA, A, B class. Audi has been doing it for years with the TT, A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7 & (up until recentley) A8.

Fixed that for you

[ska///235i]

toyota like german cars that cost twice as much but doesnt have the reliability of a toyota

Good job

[Qunadry]

Unhappy with the new BMW? Speak with your checkbook! My 135i will be my last new BMW.

[Tomahawk]

not sure why this is being called a "2" series. Maybe thats all the confusion. If this is simply a "new" 1 series variant to match up with new naming nomenclature, then it makes sense. But to have two completely different lines called "2" series?!

[TheBingoBalls]

The sign of changing times. All three marques, BMW, Mercedes and Audi's pretty much make the same car today, they just add a touch of their own thing to make it their own so when I read "this is going to be my last BMW, my next car is going to be Mercedes/Audi", I just laugh.

Just reading threads over the months here, people are a lot more concerned about the badge than the actual car. People here are complaining that the M2 might possibly have a 4-Cylinder engine and therefore, it's going to be shit. Last I checked, the CLA45 has got some pretty good reviews.

[infamousq]

So this is how BMW dies....with a FWD car.......

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by boofi

Goodness you guys are a bunch of goddamn babies. If you don't want the FWD, don't buy the FWD. They aren't going to make FWD 3 series.

Besides, look at the Fiesta ST and GTI. Both are FWD, and both are getting RAVE reviews as far as driving dynamics. A little diveristy never hurt anyone. Low end FWD models can fund your RWD fun to drive models. Just look at what Porsche did with the Cayenne and Macan.

And the Panamera...


Totally agree.. Anyone who doesnt want a product isnt forced to buy it. Just because the company is broadening it's scope of models, doesnt mean that they the company is going to quit making traditional models or go to hell in a handbasket.. Holy crap.

Originally Posted by infamousq

So this is how BMW dies....with a FWD car.......

Quite the OPPOSITE. This is how the company gets STRONGER. More successful models = more sales
More sales = more income. More income means the COMPANY DOESNT GO UNDER. More income = ability to create more niche/unique/specific models. More unique/specific/niche models = things like a halo car like an M1.... or vehicles like a CSL ... or unique vehicles for racing like the M235... the 1M... or perhaps bringing back something like the 8 series... or a new Z8... ? while CORE models like the M3... M5... M6 still exist.

[DieGrüneHölle]

If you want a front wheel drive slow car. Why waste your money on a BMW badge? There are so many other cars that fit that category, that will be a lot less money.

[TheBingoBalls]

I remember reading an article about Porsche tinkering with the idea to bring back the 4 cylinder engine and read the comments from users. I don't think I remember seeing one comment how Porsche is dying or why are they going to ruin the brand and replace that flat six. Instead it was comments about the past 4-cylinder engines Porsche had used and how they could make advances and the potential they could have in a Boxster/Cayman setup. So much different here where everyone acts like BMW is this sacred brand that should never change despite the changes in the automobile sector.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by imserious

Are these still going to be called "Ultimate Driving Machines"?

Is a 116d (for example) NOT an ultimate driving machine?

last I checked.. BMW is the one that declares what vehicles are " the ultimate driving machine".... and what vehicles are M cars... not any one individual.

So... Since they ARE going to be BMWs...then that kinda gives you your answer.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by boofi

Goodness you guys are a bunch of goddamn babies. If you don't want the FWD, don't buy the FWD. They aren't going to make FWD 3 series.

Besides, look at the Fiesta ST and GTI. Both are FWD, and both are getting RAVE reviews as far as driving dynamics.

Fiesta ST and Focus ST are fantastic cars. One would question why get a slow 3-cylinder fwd BMW for more money? Unless of course the buyer is an epic badge whore.

[Qunadry]

[QUOTE=TheBingoBalls;15438349]The sign of changing times. All three marques, BMW, Mercedes and Audi's pretty much make the same car today, they just add a touch of their own thing to make it their own so when I read "this is going to be my last BMW, my next car is going to be Mercedes/Audi", I just laugh.

I did not say I would not buy another BMW, just not another new BMW. The E30, 36 and 46 3 series cars are looking awfully good to me now.

[Meeni]

It is starting. Before you know it the entire lineup will be FWD boring ultimate commute machines. Scott will say otherwise, just like he said otherwise last year about FWD. I will not buy an expensive commute machine, I'll get a Hyundai, it gets the same job done for 1/2 the price. BMW has to have something special to justify the premium, not just the badge alright.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

The sign of changing times. All three marques, BMW, Mercedes and Audi's pretty much make the same car today, they just add a touch of their own thing to make it their own so when I read "this is going to be my last BMW, my next car is going to be Mercedes/Audi", I just laugh.

Just reading threads over the months here, people are a lot more concerned about the badge than the actual car. People here are complaining that the M2 might possibly have a 4-Cylinder engine and therefore, it's going to be shit. Last I checked, the CLA45 has got some pretty good reviews.

+1,000,000



People who leave the brand because of this are the type of people who get BMW enthusiasts labelled as badge-whores.

edit:

Not to mention, that Audi is even worse for platform/badge engineering with Skoda, Volkswagen and Seat.

[TheBingoBalls]

[QUOTE=Qunadry;15438540]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

The sign of changing times. All three marques, BMW, Mercedes and Audi's pretty much make the same car today, they just add a touch of their own thing to make it their own so when I read "this is going to be my last BMW, my next car is going to be Mercedes/Audi", I just laugh.

I did not say I would not buy another BMW, just not another new BMW. The E30, 36 and 46 3 series cars are looking awfully good to me now.

My comment wasn't directed at you Qunadry, it was more of a general observation over the months here on the forums. Many don't like the direction BMW is going and state that they're moving on to Mercedes or Audi.

[SoCali E36]

This is the reason why after my 135i I did not buy another new BMW. My E36 will be with me for a very long time. The only new car in the family will be the one the wife drives. She's love BMW but doesn't have the same driver connection like I do.

[MarkEu]

Noooooooooo! BMW with FWD

[Jai 302]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

And the Panamera...


Totally agree.. Anyone who doesnt want a product isnt forced to buy it. Just because the company is broadening it's scope of models, doesnt mean that they the company is going to quit making traditional models or go to hell in a handbasket.. Holy crap.




Quite the OPPOSITE. This is how the company gets STRONGER. More successful models = more sales
More sales = more income. More income means the COMPANY DOESNT GO UNDER. More income = ability to create more niche/unique/specific models. More unique/specific/niche models = things like a halo car like an M1.... or vehicles like a CSL ... or unique vehicles for racing like the M235... the 1M... or perhaps bringing back something like the 8 series... or a new Z8... ? while CORE models like the M3... M5... M6 still exist.

Except Mercrdes offers its customers cars like the SLS AMG and V12/black series models of most of their top cars. Audi on the other hand has a V10 supercar and the S8. What does BMW have?

If Mercedes and Audi are going downmarket they are also going upmarket at the same time. If BMW "needs" money from FWD vehicles to build higher end cars, then where is the new 8 series, Z8 or M1? Instead we BMW fans get a 3cyl "me too" sports car that will get walked by Mustangs and Camaros.

[Want the thrill]

Might as well call it the BMW minivan

[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

And the Panamera...


Totally agree.. Anyone who doesnt want a product isnt forced to buy it. Just because the company is broadening it's scope of models, doesnt mean that they the company is going to quit making traditional models or go to hell in a handbasket.. Holy crap.

Quite the OPPOSITE. This is how the company gets STRONGER. More successful models = more sales
More sales = more income. More income means the COMPANY DOESNT GO UNDER. More income = ability to create more niche/unique/specific models. More unique/specific/niche models = things like a halo car like an M1.... or vehicles like a CSL ... or unique vehicles for racing like the M235... the 1M... or perhaps bringing back something like the 8 series... or a new Z8... ? while CORE models like the M3... M5... M6 still exist.

We have to think about this a bit deeper. If bmw is focusing FWD and family minivans, then the ulimate driving machine is ignored...productivity & R&D will be scattered.

If a restuarant serves steak and seafood now all of a sudden they're doing all you can eat buffet...they'll still make a profit but the food is going downhill