[grimlock]

Originally Posted by csu87

There have been multiple studies showing unarmed white males are more likely to be shot by police than unarmed black males; but let's not let facts get in the way of the agrnda here.

No way. Stop making up facts

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Haywood

The situation is getting worse, not better. The concern is that it's not just happening in large, urban cities like NY, LA, Miami, etc, where it would be easy to say this happens all the time. But, it's obvious that most of these suburban cops are not being trained to deal with these situations. The minorities don't trust the cops because of the perceived profiling and what has gone on in recent history and the cops feel that their lives are being threatened every time they encounter a minority and thinks they have a weapon. There has to be better education for police departments and this has to start on a national level. Politicians, who are completely useless these days, need to come out and work together and find a way to get these police departments to get serious on training. Not them going on the news and saying, "Oh, this is tragic, this has to stop". I don't know all the answers to this situation. It's not that easy. But, doing nothing is the definition of insanity.

This is quoted for fucking truth. Literally, bolded word for word what we talked about at work this morning. They've gotta stop putting the squeamish white dudes in the hood, otherwise it's going to be hell for everyone involved. Point blank (no gunshot lolz). Have individuals that are familiar with the culture, who can understand on a different level regarding the interactions which take place, and kill off some of the fucking notions that both sides have entering a situation. It's obviously not the immediate or permanent solution (as you've stated) but it's better than nothing. WTF.

Also, subdivisions of counties and regional offices seem to operate independently when there should be much more unified movement. I think this will also help with the things that you have outlined.

[insanecoder]

Look lets not pretend theres no racism in this country
does that mean everyone is racist.. no
but racism is there

bottom line tho.. its hard to eradicate racism in the hearts of men cause you cant see down there
What you can do is apply the judicial system FAIRLY and equally in all cases
These cops need to be indicted and tried for murder NOT let off the hook.. let the grand jury settle it

[Alfisti]

It doesn't help that everyone is so damned twitchy 'cos half the population is packing heat. I'd be twitchy too.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Given that he is not an outstanding citizen, does that make his life any less valuable? Serious question. If he pulled out a gun and shot a police officer, the other one would have shot him dead anyway. Then what?

.

Life is valuable, in all forms, including unborn babies. Though I don't see everyone getting outraged at this form of murder. Interesting. Guess we all selectively care about who gets to live and die.

But to answer your question (as I think you asked it seriously), I think the answer is maybe (and I'm referring to the video I saw of a black guy getting tackled and then shot, as I now understand there are two different shootings). Maybe the other officer would have killed him. Or maybe, that officer was busy restraining him and didn't have his gun out (as he was behind the car I couldn't see) and the guy could have shot both officers and walked away. We don't know what the outcome would have been.

But I agree with csu - why does the criminal get to try to shoot first? Because it sounds like you are proposing this as a viable alternative scenario that should be allowed to happen before the cops shoot? If you aren't - why bring it up, I do not understand - help me understand (seriously - I'm not judging here, just going on the printed word and that isn't always going to convey what you mean).

And to answer the "Then what" - it seems to me that the "then what" is that an innocent person either is injured or dies (the cop) and the black guy either gets shot or shoots the other cop too and walks free, but if he gets shot, then we are back in the same place as we are now, only with the addition of an innocent person getting injured or shot.

[Sidewinderpb]

Originally Posted by Haywood

The situation is getting worse, not better. The concern is that it's not just happening in large, urban cities like NY, LA, Miami, etc, where it would be easy to say this happens all the time. But, it's obvious that most of these suburban cops are not being trained to deal with these situations. The minorities don't trust the cops because of the perceived profiling and what has gone on in recent history and the cops feel that their lives are being threatened every time they encounter a minority and thinks they have a weapon. There has to be better education for police departments and this has to start on a national level. Politicians, who are completely useless these days, need to come out and work together and find a way to get these police departments to get serious on training. Not them going on the news and saying, "Oh, this is tragic, this has to stop". I don't know all the answers to this situation. It's not that easy. But, doing nothing is the definition of insanity.

Yup. Many thing often boil down to education and discipline. Wasn't it just last month that a guy died in a senseless chase that really only warranted a ticket? The cop had multiple instances of engaging in unnecessary high speed pursuits. I mean, it takes two to tango - so the perp was equally as stupid.

[RJ_]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2701935


TF.

Originally Posted by Haywood

Guys, I think the police shooting in MN is worse. This is absolutely horrific. The guy told the officer that he had a permit to carry a weapon and he was just reaching for his wallet. No priors, steady job so he doesn't fit the narrative of being a thug. This is a really tough one to watch.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/07/us/fal...ota/index.html

Oh fuck me this is brutal.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Life is valuable, in all forms, including unborn babies. Though I don't see everyone getting outraged at this form of murder. Interesting. Guess we all selectively care about who gets to live and die.

But to answer your question (as I think you asked it seriously), I think the answer is maybe (and I'm referring to the video I saw of a black guy getting tackled and then shot, as I now understand there are two different shootings). Maybe the other officer would have killed him. Or maybe, that officer was busy restraining him and didn't have his gun out (as he was behind the car I couldn't see) and the guy could have shot both officers and walked away. We don't know what the outcome would have been.

But I agree with csu - why does the criminal get to try to shoot first? Because it sounds like you are proposing this as a viable alternative scenario that should be allowed to happen before the cops shoot? If you aren't - why bring it up, I do not understand - help me understand (seriously - I'm not judging here, just going on the printed word and that isn't always going to convey what you mean).

exactly

verb keeps forgetting you can't act like douche, break morality/laws and expect to be accorded the same rights and liberties as other non norm-breaking citizens

[Blksnowflake]

The Minneapolis incident is absolutely horrible. You can tell that the cop knew he was wrong by his tone and comments.
It is absolutely a training issue. I work in an environment where firearms are common place and the existence of a firearm does not mean that I should be alarmed. It is obvious that officers need a lot more training in relating to the minorities they may encounter on duty and to deal with being less alarmed at the presence or mention of weapons.

I am speaking mostly regarding the Minneapolis video, even not seeing the actual interaction, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the individual reached for a weapon(he admitted having by the way) while is girlfriend and child are in that vehicle.

I cannot really see anything in the first video but I can honestly say that when you begin to resist officers, right or wrong, the outcome is less favorable for your defence.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It doesn't help that everyone is so damned twitchy 'cos half the population is packing heat. I'd be twitchy too.

Sorry but being killed by a twitchy cop is not acceptable

[nyalpine90]

you cant blame civilians for getting nervous/panicc while being pulled over by cops.
Cops assume your hiding a weapon or misinterpret your behavior.

i know i get uncomfortable when i get pulled over even though i have clean record.
I never been booked or been inside precinct.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Look lets not pretend theres no racism in this country
does that mean everyone is racist.. no
but racism is there

bottom line tho.. its hard to eradicate racism in the hearts of men cause you cant see down there
What you can do is apply the judicial system FAIRLY and equally in all cases
These cops need to be indicted and tried for murder NOT let off the hook.. let the grand jury settle it

I'm just tired of people trying to make excuses or act like there's not a problem. I'm fucking tired.

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Life is valuable, in all forms, including unborn babies. Though I don't see everyone getting outraged at this form of murder. Interesting. Guess we all selectively care about who gets to live and die.

But to answer your question (as I think you asked it seriously), I think the answer is maybe (and I'm referring to the video I saw of a black guy getting tackled and then shot, as I now understand there are two different shootings). Maybe the other officer would have killed him. Or maybe, that officer was busy restraining him and didn't have his gun out (as he was behind the car I couldn't see) and the guy could have shot both officers and walked away. We don't know what the outcome would have been.

But I agree with csu - why does the criminal get to try to shoot first? Because it sounds like you are proposing this as a viable alternative scenario that should be allowed to happen before the cops shoot? If you aren't - why bring it up, I do not understand - help me understand (seriously - I'm not judging here, just going on the printed word and that isn't always going to convey what you mean).

And to answer the "Then what" - it seems to me that the "then what" is that an innocent person either is injured or dies (the cop) and the black guy either gets shot or shoots the other cop too and walks free, but if he gets shot, then we are back in the same place as we are now, only with the addition of an innocent person getting injured or shot.

My point of the "then what" and the scenario with him shooting first was with regard to the potential changing order of killings, to say that regardless, a life is lost; whether it was him killing an officer and then dying, or him getting shot while apparently reaching for a firearm.

Geneva laws should exist for law enforcement, as they do in the military. To speak to your final paragraph, in most of these cases (just about all of them, as a matter of fact) the only victim of a fatal gunshot was the person being restrained.

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It doesn't help that everyone is so damned twitchy 'cos half the population is packing heat. I'd be twitchy too.

Wrong. You need training, sorry. There is absolutely no freaking need to be "twitchy" because someone has a weapon. Silly comment that can perpetuate fear. Your exposure to firearms seems to be influenced by violence and as such associate a weapon to mean that or something there of. At least that's what your comment implies....since you'd be all "twitchy".

Should I be twitchy because police officers are walking around with guns, and worried about my family if stopped, no. I bet you'd lose your mind if you saw me open carry down the block walking my dog.... omg he has a gun, quick call the police....and make sure they arrive really twitchy and ready to kill this man walking his dog because he has a "GUN". smh

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

The Minneapolis incident is absolutely horrible. You can tell that the cop knew he was wrong by his tone and comments.
It is absolutely a training issue. I work in an environment where firearms are common place and the existence of a firearm does not mean that I should be alarmed. It is obvious that officers need a lot more training in relating to the minorities they may encounter on duty and to deal with being less alarmed at the presence or mention of weapons.

I am speaking mostly regarding the Minneapolis video, even not seeing the actual interaction, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the individual reached for a weapon(he admitted having by the way) while is girlfriend and child are in that vehicle.

I cannot really see anything in the first video but I can honestly say that when you begin to resist officers, right or wrong, the outcome is less favorable for your defence.

+1, again. The shit is far from rocket science. Some of the responses in this thread are truly baffling.

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Sorry but being killed by a twitchy cop is not acceptable

Absolutely agreed. Like I said, keep the squeamish ones out of the fucking hood. It's clearly a formula that doesn't work.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by nyalpine90

you cant blame civilians for getting nervous/panicc while being pulled over by cops.
Cops assume your hiding a weapon or misinterpret your behavior.

i know i get uncomfortable when i get pulled over even though i have clean record.
I never been booked or been inside precinct.

It comes down to the fear. The fear and uncertainty are the driving factors. I've never given one an excuse to search me, my vehicle, or the like. I respect law enforcement and the duties they represent, and understand that they are also humans with families.


People are fucking hopeless.

[nyalpine90]

cop career is not for everyone, if you have anger issues, emotional issues or no self control then this job is not for you. they should get evaluated every year if they are stable to continue to perform proper duties.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Sorry but being killed by a twitchy cop is not acceptable

I never said that, there's obviously some sort of disconnect in regards to training and de-escalation techniques in many police forces, things are out of hand.

[Fundguy1]

They both fucked up. The guy was a bad dude. He had a gun and threatened people with it. He's huge. He's struggling. Taste doesn't work well on him because he was morbidly obese. Tasters work on lean muscle. Fat makes them much less effective. He was struggling.

That said the two cops had control and didn't have to shoot him 6 times. Puts a black eye on cops again.

That said there's going to always be a 0.001% minimum when cops get it wrong. Between the last instance and this one there have been 10s of thousands of good arrests. No reason to interject racism here. No reason to condemned the police. Hold a fair hearing and investigation, unlike Baltimore's sham, and if all the cameras and earlier footage justify what they did, move on. If it doesn't, jail the cops. Simple.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Wrong. You need training, sorry. There is absolutely no freaking need to be "twitchy" because someone has a weapon. Silly comment that can perpetuate fear. Your exposure to firearms seems to be influenced by violence and as such associate a weapon to mean that or something there of. At least that's what your comment implies....since you'd be all "twitchy".

Should I be twitchy because police officers are walking around with guns, and worried about my family if stopped, no. I bet you'd lose your mind if you saw me open carry down the block walking my dog.... omg he has a gun, quick call the police....and make sure they arrive really twitchy and ready to kill this man walking his dog because he has a "GUN". smh

+1 again. There's too much of this.

Originally Posted by nyalpine90

cop career is not for everyone, if you have anger issues, emotional issues or no self control then this job is not for you. they should get evaluated every year if they are stable to continue to perform proper duties.

This was another topic that came up, with regard to ideologies and objectivity regarding emotion. Too many of these instances, I feel, are driven by instability and anger. And of course, that shit gets no elaboration, whatsoever.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Wrong. You need training, sorry. There is absolutely no freaking need to be "twitchy" because someone has a weapon. Silly comment that can perpetuate fear. Your exposure to firearms seems to be influenced by violence and as such associate a weapon to mean that or something there of. At least that's what your comment implies....since you'd be all "twitchy".

Should I be twitchy because police officers are walking around with guns, and worried about my family if stopped, no. I bet you'd lose your mind if you saw me open carry down the block walking my dog.... omg he has a gun, quick call the police....and make sure they arrive really twitchy and ready to kill this man walking his dog because he has a "GUN". smh

Oh, I need "training".

A good portion of human beings are not intellectually or emotionally capable of handling a weapon yet they are handed out like candy at a birthday party. This is the result, every time a cop pulls someone over he has no fucking idea what the passengers are carrying, in most civilised countries the cop is 99% sure there's no gun.

We can argue all day but we will never agree so there is no point but this whole "training" or "education" thing is bullshit of the highest order, people in general are just too unstable and emotional to handle it.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

They both fucked up. The guy was a bad dude. He had a gun and threatened people with it. He's huge. He's struggling. Taste doesn't work well on him because he was morbidly obese. Tasters work on lean muscle. Fat makes them much less effective. He was struggling.

That said the two cops had control and didn't have to shoot him 6 times. Puts a black eye on cops again.

That said there's going to always be a 0.001% minimum when cops get it wrong. Between the last instance and this one there have been 10s of thousands of good arrests. No reason to interject racism here. No reason to condemned the police. Hold a fair hearing and investigation, unlike Baltimore's sham, and if all the cameras and earlier footage justify what they did, move on. If it doesn't, jail the cops. Simple.

Epic Fundguy post. Thank you.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Oh, I need "training".

A good portion of human beings are not intellectually or emotionally capable of handling a weapon yet they are handed out like candy at a birthday party. This is the result, every time a cop pulls someone over he has no fucking idea what the passengers are carrying, in most civilised countries the cop is 99% sure there's no gun.

We can argue all day but we will never agree so there is no point but this whole "training" or "education" thing is bullshit of the highest order, people in general are just too unstable and emotional to handle it.

I think your last line contains the real problem. However, it definitely also applies to law enforcement, especially when they are the main individuals who have a formalized license to wound/kill if necessary.


My apologies if that was implied.