[Fliplegend]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I'm going to elaborate in a separate post, but your information never leaves your home with Loxone. Actually, Loxone's doesn't need the Internet at all (its only used for app control from outside the home). This is part of the reason Loxone is the go-to solution for homes operating "off the grid."

Originally Posted by rad doc

Thanks. Your post reads a bit like the marketing materials. "50k tasks per year" and "most advanced system." There is nothing unique about what the materials and post describe. Example, occupancy sensors can do exactly what you describe with in terms of controlling lighting and hvac with Savant, Crestron and Lutron. I am interested in real world applications.

For instance, say you have a Jandy or Pentair pool controller. Can you natively control? Does Loxone make its own pool controller?

Another example. Sure you can control your own lighting but i would be reluctant to use a relatively new company for such a vital system when Lutron had robust, reliable systems and its much more likely they will be around and support in 10-20 years.

Really just trying to understand how this is any different or just marketing spin. No offense, honestly interested. Also, to address the post below none of the aforementioned automation systems require internet connection either.

Do you work for or with Loxone because I agree with rad doc, your post reaks of marketing.

[rad doc]

Originally Posted by Fliplegend

Do you work for or with Loxone because I agree with rad doc, your post reaks of marketing.

He mentioned working for Loxone. I don't have a problem with that if I can get some good info on what the system provides. At least for now, it just seems like the same tech with a bunch of marketing spin. Maybe even less useful if no good integration with 3rd parties.

[UncleWede]

As long as the 9v retains 9, my Honeywell t-stat controls the heating. We don't have A/C

For everything else, I'm that guy, walking the halls, switching off all the lights/TVs/computers/fans, day and night. And closing the exterior screen doors (IT WAS FREAKING CLOSED WHEN YOU WALKED UP TO IT, WHY IS IT OPEN NOW?????)

\rant

[Alfisti]

I'm that guy too. What kills me is the 9 months of cold then as soon as it hits 22 degrees the wife wants the AC on. Like what, open a fucking window.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Like what, open a fucking window.

BUT, that will let DUST into the house. Oh, the huge manatee!!!!

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

BUT, that will let DUST into the house. Oh, the huge manatee!!!!

Wife decides kids need black out covers to sleep, so literally covering the windows from the inside in totality so they cannot be opened all winter etc.

Alf: you're gonna make a mold farm
Mrs: why you so negative
alf: seriously this won't end well, your trapping heat and the windows are made of wood, they gonna sweat
mrs: they need dark to sleep
alf: how did we survive as kids then?
mrs: why you so difficult??


A year later she decides to peek behind the curtain......

mrs: SCREEEEAMING at the one inch deep of mold on the window frame
alf: what it's my problem now
mrs: what are we going to do
alf: what's this we you speak of?

I have many other examples, could go on for hours.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by rad doc

Your post reads a bit like the marketing materials. "50k tasks per year" and "most advanced system." There is nothing unique about what the materials and post describe. Example, occupancy sensors can do exactly what you describe with in terms of controlling lighting and hvac with Savant, Crestron and Lutron. I am interested in real world applications.

Actually there's a lot of things I mentioned that only Loxone can provide. Examples being knowing exactly where the sun is in the sky (and taking actions with that information); and the ability to break your HVAC system into individual zones. This is VERY real world. It is true that you could add light and occupancy sensors to a conventional control system, but the programming bill would be massive because the integrator would be starting from scratch.

Originally Posted by rad doc

For instance, say you have a Jandy or Pentair pool controller. Can you natively control? Does Loxone make its own pool controller?

Loxone does make our own pool controller but it's not applicable to US systems. We easily integrate with popular US pool controllers.

Originally Posted by rad doc

Another example. Sure you can control your own lighting but i would be reluctant to use a relatively new company for such a vital system when Lutron had robust, reliable systems and its much more likely they will be around and support in 10-20 years.

While not as old as Lutron; 10-year old Loxone is a very established and mature company. We have hundreds of thousands of active systems; 18 corporate office locations around the world. The two newest being our North American location near Philadelphia; and our China office in Shanghai.

Originally Posted by rad doc

Really just trying to understand how this is any different or just marketing spin. No offense, honestly interested. Also, to address the post below none of the aforementioned automation systems require internet connection either.

The difference is the superior intelligence contained in a Loxone system. Other systems excel at being a CONTROL system. Loxone excels at being a AUTOMATION system. Loxone logic or smarts is absolutely a generation ahead of control systems. It's far more stable and reliable too.

You can download the Loxone app and try it out by connecting to the demo system in London we set up. This will allow you to test drive the app.

[upstatedoc]

meh, i'll stick to flipping switches and carrying a glock

[rad doc]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Actually there's a lot of things I mentioned that only Loxone can provide. Examples being knowing exactly where the sun is in the sky (and taking actions with that information); and the ability to break your HVAC system into individual zones. This is VERY real world. It is true that you could add light and occupancy sensors to a conventional control system, but the programming bill would be massive because the integrator would be starting from scratch.




Loxone does make our own pool controller but it's not applicable to US systems. We easily integrate with popular US pool controllers.



While not as old as Lutron; 10-year old Loxone is a very established and mature company. We have hundreds of thousands of active systems; 18 corporate office locations around the world. The two newest being our North American location near Philadelphia; and our China office in Shanghai.





The difference is the superior intelligence contained in a Loxone system. Other systems excel at being a CONTROL system. Loxone excels at being a AUTOMATION system. Loxone logic or smarts is absolutely a generation ahead of control systems. It's far more stable and reliable too.

You can download the Loxone app and try it out by connecting to the demo system in London we set up. This will allow you to test drive the app.

Still a bit of risk spending 25-50k on a 10 year old company. And so pool control we be just like every other automation system.

Lutron has daylight autonomy which can easily integrate into functions to automate the system. Occupancy sensors are very easy to setup. For instance, Loxone website talks about walking into bathroom and having lights and hvac set to desired level, maybe music. Very easy to automate in Control4 and Savant. Certainly not MASSIVE programming.

Please stay clear of superlatives without examples. "Superior intelligence". "Advanced logic", etc. What exactly does that mean? I would disagree that Crestron, Savant or Control4 are not automation. There is lots of automation to be performed if client wishes. Let me provide example, upon entering a set radius Control4 can turn on hvac, smaller radius say one block, open gate and turn on lights. At 11pm, automatically close garage if not close already. As to stability, never had issue with either our Crestron or C4 systems crashing.

[rad doc]

Tried the app. Doesn't work. Got spinning wheel and "checking connection" "poor connection". Not so great!

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by rad doc

Still a bit of risk spending 25-50k on a 10 year old company.

Loxone founded 2008
Savant founded 2005
C4 founded 2003

Not exactly a huge difference between these three. I'd say the much larger vulnerability is the robustness of the integration company installing the system.

Originally Posted by rad doc

so pool control we be just like every other automation system.

Maybe, maybe not. The pool interface would still be beholden to the system providing instructions to it. I guess the question here is what do you have in mind? If it's only a simple timer, then there will be zero difference between systems. If you want the pool to react autonomously to different weather, pool, or other conditions, then Loxone would make the goal FAR easier to accomplish.

Originally Posted by rad doc

Lutron has daylight autonomy which can easily integrate into functions to automate the system. Occupancy sensors are very easy to setup. For instance, Loxone website talks about walking into bathroom and having lights and hvac set to desired level, maybe music. Very easy to automate in Control4 and Savant. Certainly not MASSIVE programming.

Yes, Lutron has occupancy sensors and ambient-light sensors that can control lighting, but this is actually a great example. Allow me to elaborate.

A Loxone system by default continuously monitors the space for occupancy and ambient light level. If you walk into a room at midnight, the lights turn on; and after the space is vacant, it will turn off the lights autonomously after a user-defined time period. Admittedly this isn't that complex to program with most control systems. But Loxone ALSO continuously monitors the ambient light in the room. If the room is above a user-defined brightness level, the lights will remain off even if someone does enter the room. The theory is that you don't need any additional light. Lets say you stay in this bright room long enough for the sun to set. When the ambient light level dips below the user-defined threshold, the lights will turn on.

Again- what I'm stating here IS ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE with Crestron, C4, Savant, etc., but your integrator is going to have to program these if-this-then-that rules from a blank sheet of paper. This programming will NOT be a nominal cost. Anyone telling you different is ignorant or outright lying. With Loxone this is standard, yet completely defeat-able if preferred.

One more this relevant here... Lutron only knows when sunrise and sunset occur, so all rules are in relation to sunrise, sunset, or day/time. Loxone also knows WHERE the Sun is, what the weather is, and can act upon that information. This is just a deeper level of information to act upon than any other system.

Originally Posted by rad doc

I would disagree that Crestron, Savant or Control4 are not automation. There is lots of automation to be performed if client wishes. Let me provide example, upon entering a set radius Control4 can turn on hvac, smaller radius say one block, open gate and turn on lights. At 11pm, automatically close garage if not close already.

This is a fair point, perhaps I'm not being clear. These control systems do have automation features; just as our automation system does provide control features. I'm speaking to their differing design goals. Loxone can control anything, but we don't provide a huge library of ready-baked "drivers" for third-party equipment because that isn't a goal of ours. Similarly Savent, C4 can automate things, but they don't provide the same level of automation functions as standard features because that isn't their intended goal.

Originally Posted by rad doc

As to stability, never had issue with either our Crestron or C4 systems crashing.

As I said- I'm a pro with three decades of experience. This is poppycock. All systems crash or break. Loxone just does it far, FAR less. To a large degree, this is because we try to provide an end-to-end solution. Did you see that Nest just announced that they're changing how third parties communicate with their products? This literally means that nearly every control system using a Nest product is going to need a truck roll to re-integrate the Nest products into their control system. What do you think it will cost the end-user for this site visit and programming patch? $150? $250? More? Again, this isn't really a knock on these control systems themselves... Nest broke the programming by changing their method of communication. This flaw is that these systems potentially are still relying on a third-party device.

While I'm here- May I suggest people do a search on the complete fail Savant is experiencing with their thermostat? The product has a critical flaw... It can't accurately measure the temperature in the room! Truly a "you had one job" failure scenario. 🤯

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Received this email today from a Loxone partner showing me a "smart home" horror story... 🙈

[Paul567]

My friend uses Amazon echo speaker device, which connects to Alexa. He says, it's extremely good.

[rad doc]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Received this email today from a Loxone partner showing me a "smart home" horror story... 🙈

What a mess!

I agree, often times the integrator is the most important aspect. Unfortunately, the industry is full of poor or inexperienced installers. Actually had tough time in Houston finding someone.

My point with the risk is with Loxone you have all your eggs in one basket. With say Crestron you may have different manufacturers for lighting, hvac control, etc. Certainly has advantages and disadvantages.

I like your explanation of how the automation side is different. Is Loxone new to US market? Whats the average project price? Also interesting is I saw a post on C4forum of a Loxone homeowner looking to also install C4 to control a/v, media server, and audio distribution. Is that necessary?

[rad doc]

Originally Posted by rad doc

What a mess!

I agree, often times the integrator is the most important aspect. Unfortunately, the industry is full of poor or inexperienced installers. Actually had tough time in Houston finding someone.

My point with the risk is with Loxone you have all your eggs in one basket. With say Crestron you may have different manufacturers for lighting, hvac control, etc. Certainly has advantages and disadvantages.

I like your explanation of how the automation side is different. Is Loxone new to US market? Whats the average project price? Also interesting is I saw a post on C4forum of a Loxone homeowner looking to also install C4 to control a/v, media server, and audio distribution. Is that necessary?

Also, the demo app is working now. Seems very very basic. For instance, in lighting why is there no dimmer features? No preset levels? Example, for media room I have movie, intermission, sports, etc. Also, the music is presented as basically on/off and volume. Thats it? No choices between sources or services. Example I choose between Pandora, Tidal, XM, Media server, apple TV and several others. I personally prefer C4 gui, the Loxone is pretty bad with monochromatic colors and a few green text lines.

[HondaGoneRogue]

What a great thread and convo so far. I've been swamped at work, but you guys have definitely given me some perspective. Can't wait to read through a bit slower while looking deeper into some of these set-ups. Just by what I've read so far, my goal may not be as lofty as I thought. You guys get deep!

[Alfisti]

The carving up of the sales pitch is fucking gold.

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The carving up of the sales pitch is fucking gold.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by rad doc

Also, the demo app is working now. Seems very very basic. For instance, in lighting why is there no dimmer features? No preset levels? Example, for media room I have movie, intermission, sports, etc. Also, the music is presented as basically on/off and volume. Thats it? No choices between sources or services. Example I choose between Pandora, Tidal, XM, Media server, apple TV and several others. I personally prefer C4 gui, the Loxone is pretty bad with monochromatic colors and a few green text lines.

There are dimmer controls, as well as color. I attached some screenshots for reference.

There is simply no way I can demo an app/system in this forum. However, I have a solution. You can schedule a personal video tour of our showroom apartment located in our North American headquarters near Philadelphia. Feel free to mention my name.

https://www.loxone.com/enus/smart-ho...rience-loxone/

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The carving up of the sales pitch is fucking gold.

If it were a true sales pitch I'd be looking to close a sale. Instead my goal is to educate people on a better way, and highlight the possibilities.

I'm a veteran of the CEDIA space at this point of my career. I have relationships with literally every major integrator in the NY-Metro area. These people are have as much Smart Home knowledge as anyone on the planet. When they learn about Loxone they universally acknowledge Loxone is a generation ahead in regards to logic and intelligence as compared to the big three control systems. I know specifically they agree to that statement because I ask them directly when I meet with them. Actually I find the most enthusiasm for our system coming from the Chief Technical Officers, because they really grasp how advanced Loxone is.

If people here don't agree with this consensus, then that probably speaks more to limitations in trying to communicate our Real Smart Home experience on this forum than anything else. I hope people schedule a video tour at the link below.
https://www.loxone.com/enus/smart-ho...rience-loxone/

[HondaGoneRogue]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

If it were a true sales pitch I'd be looking to close a sale. Instead my goal is to educate people on a better way, and highlight the possibilities.

I'm a veteran of the CEDIA space at this point of my career. I have relationships with literally every major integrator in the NY-Metro area. These people are have as much Smart Home knowledge as anyone on the planet. When they learn about Loxone they universally acknowledge Loxone is a generation ahead in regards to logic and intelligence as compared to the big three control systems. I know specifically they agree to that statement because I ask them directly when I meet with them. Actually I find the most enthusiasm for our system coming from the Chief Technical Officers, because they really grasp how advanced Loxone is.

If people here don't agree with this consensus, then that probably speaks more to limitations in trying to communicate our Real Smart Home experience on this forum than anything else. I hope people schedule a video tour at the link below.
https://www.loxone.com/enus/smart-ho...rience-loxone/

Forums gonna be forums lol.
I appreciate your and everyone else's input.

[rad doc]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

If it were a true sales pitch I'd be looking to close a sale. Instead my goal is to educate people on a better way, and highlight the possibilities.

I'm a veteran of the CEDIA space at this point of my career. I have relationships with literally every major integrator in the NY-Metro area. These people are have as much Smart Home knowledge as anyone on the planet. When they learn about Loxone they universally acknowledge Loxone is a generation ahead in regards to logic and intelligence as compared to the big three control systems. I know specifically they agree to that statement because I ask them directly when I meet with them. Actually I find the most enthusiasm for our system coming from the Chief Technical Officers, because they really grasp how advanced Loxone is.

If people here don't agree with this consensus, then that probably speaks more to limitations in trying to communicate our Real Smart Home experience on this forum than anything else. I hope people schedule a video tour at the link below.
https://www.loxone.com/enus/smart-ho...rience-loxone/

Ok, I took the video tour. So, Loxones main trick seems to be aimed at automating lights and hvac. Honestly, I dont wont my spare rooms not cooled. Would be annoying and probably wouldn't save me much in the grand scheme. Do you guys really think there is a big market of people looking to save a few energy dollars by not conditioning unused rooms? Amongst the target audience of large luxury homeowners? And labeled keypads are so much more user friendly for selecting lighting presets. For instance, why would I want to tap the center of Loxone switch 5 times to cycle and find the mode I wont? With a keypad, one click to select whatever preset which could also easily be automated.

I also really do not like the wall switch at all. Not intuitive. I can see guests turning on music or closing shadings accidentally. Really odd. And the audio control is awful. Reminds of the days of old school Nuvo audio switches, blindly selecting sources. Why not a nice touch panel with 4k gui to select sources? Something familiar than anyone can use with out a lesson. Example of my T3's are below, much better for selecting audio. Would hate to navigate Apple music thorough Loxones app. Guessing that is why there is a Loxone user looking to add Crestron or C4 on top.

Not trying to be harsh but as a target consumer, I really do not see this taking off.