[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by smyles

not surprising - https://nypost.com/2020/03/30/brookl...on-fbi-agents/

Fucker

[joots]

For those that do not know. You have to be fit tested for those N95 masks otherwise it won't be effective.

[M5Rick]

Those small car paint sprayer masks will suffice also.

[AlexFL]

Elderly people with preexisting conditions should absolutely be wearing masks to protect their lives. It’s a f****** shame that there is such a shortage on masks. What an epic failure!

[Gritty]

Massive failure in protective equipment and testing. In addition it was negligent for the US and UK governments to initially state not to wear a mask to help stop the spread of the virus. I get the N95 masks should be kept for healthcare workers but everyone going on public transport or the grocery store over the past month should have been wearing some type of mask. Even a scarf or bandana would have helped to reduce the spread of the virus, as many are spreading the virus without symptoms.

[cooolone2]

Originally Posted by joots

For those that do not know. You have to be fit tested for those N95 masks otherwise it won't be effective.

"Fit Testing" is not what you think, and it would be more helpful for some to refrain from posting information that can be wrong, if they're not entirely sure what it is they're talking about!

Fit Testing is a term used by OSHA to describe the process whereas a person who intends to wear a restricted breathing device, is examined and determined to be medically "FIT" to do so. It has absolutely nothing to do with the mask or device "FITTING" a person's face, or as you insinuate, to be effective!

An N95 mask can be considered "Respirator" which could restrict breathing in some environments, such as in a Construction activity where the mask in a short duration of time can become clogged and thereby restrict breathing. In the medical environment for the purposes we are all talking about, the N95 won't likely break down to that point within the time it is being used. But persons who have certain health issues may not be able to wear even an N95 because the extra labor their lungs require to breathe while wearing one can possible cause and adverse event.

Regards

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

"Fit Testing" is not what you think, and it would be more helpful for some to refrain from posting information that can be wrong, if they're not entirely sure what it is they're talking about!

Fit Testing is a term used by OSHA to describe the process whereas a person who intends to wear a restricted breathing device, is examined and determined to be medically "FIT" to do so. It has absolutely nothing to do with the mask or device "FITTING" a person's face, or as you insinuate, to be effective!

An N95 mask can be considered "Respirator" which could restrict breathing in some environments, such as in a Construction activity where the mask in a short duration of time can become clogged and thereby restrict breathing. In the medical environment for the purposes we are all talking about, the N95 won't likely break down to that point within the time it is being used. But persons who have certain health issues may not be able to wear even an N95 because the extra labor their lungs require to breathe while wearing one can possible cause and adverse event.

Regards

Not entirely true. When I was a production manager, I had all employees that would potentially paint (so wear a respirator) perform a fit test, for OSHA, to determine if the respirator provided an adequate seal against the face. If they at any point tasted the sweet or bitter solution while performing the test when wearing the respirator, the test was failed. So the fit test, is in fact, a test to determine the fit of the respirator to the user.

A test like this:
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...Fit-Test-Sweet

That said, we were using a bit different respirator system than the N95 that people are thinking of.

[cooolone2]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Not entirely true. When I was a production manager, I had all employees that would potentially paint (so wear a respirator) perform a fit test, for OSHA, to determine if the respirator provided an adequate seal against the face. If they at any point tasted the sweet or bitter solution while performing the test when wearing the respirator, the test was failed. So the fit test, is in fact, a test to determine the fit of the respirator to the user.

A test like this:
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...Fit-Test-Sweet

That said, we were using a bit different respirator system than the N95 that people are thinking of.

Yes, yes if course there are variations, and I could have been more loose with my description.

The testing of proper equipment (mask) to be used is not the process of "Fit Testing"... In its entirety. Is what I should have said

As an aside, if you issued respirators without a medical practitioner signing off on it, you would be potentially culpable if that employee were to suffer any injury from it (restricted breathing). There is no Good Samaritan protection for the "Responsible Person" issuing said respirators to an employee. Some States even allow for that employer representative to be personally liable for "negligence" in an injury.

Not many are even aware that in a work environment (U.S.), if masks are sitting there on a shelf for employee use, but is not mandated by the employer representative, they're just masks, or tools that can be used. Once a work task is identified to "require" a mask, and the Responsible Person informs, and requires, (employees completing said task) that they must wear a mask, it becomes a respirator! And there is a world of difference between the two examples.

The Process of determining the appropriate equipment to be used requires the proper fitment, yes of course. And yes, we are both correct in a way. But the earlier post was arbitrary and misleading. To select the appropriate equipment, it just be worn, as face, shapes, sizes, etc., can vary, the right type of mask must be used that ensures a tight, leak free seal. In addition, the mask and it's filtering capabilities must match the potential permissible exposure limits as not all filters can filter 100% of contaminants. The N95 actually signifies that it can only filter 95% if the material it is rated for (TWA). And if the mask doesn't fit correctly, then the apparatus is upscaled, half face, and even full face masks to provide the correct "fitting" or seal. Again, the type matched to the exposure.

The fitment and filtration are two separate and succinct concerns and must be associated with the material being exposed to, the amount of time being exposed, etc., etc.

Again, "Fit Testing" is not just a process of putting a mask on and seeing how it seals. Not trying to create any long disagreement, as we are almost talking the same thing. But it's important that people understand the difference if they're (not you) going to be throwing information out there

Hope everyone stays safe! It's nice out today, think I'm gonna go for a ride (M240) hahahaha

[flybigjet]

Interesting read. Didn't get a chance to deep dive on the data as I'm out the door, but at first glance, it sure looks like getting the general population to wear (not necessarily N95 masks) might make a difference.

A buddy's wife sent me the link, so take if for what it's worth.

https://www.maskssavelives.org/?fbclid=IwAR0Getxy

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

Yes, yes if course there are variations, and I could have been more loose with my description.

The testing of proper equipment (mask) to be used is not the process of "Fit Testing"... In its entirety. Is what I should have said

As an aside, if you issued respirators without a medical practitioner signing off on it, you would be potentially culpable if that employee were to suffer any injury from it (restricted breathing). There is no Good Samaritan protection for the "Responsible Person" issuing said respirators to an employee. Some States even allow for that employer representative to be personally liable for "negligence" in an injury.

Not many are even aware that in a work environment (U.S.), if masks are sitting there on a shelf for employee use, but is not mandated by the employer representative, they're just masks, or tools that can be used. Once a work task is identified to "require" a mask, and the Responsible Person informs, and requires, (employees completing said task) that they must wear a mask, it becomes a respirator! And there is a world of difference between the two examples.

The Process of determining the appropriate equipment to be used requires the proper fitment, yes of course. And yes, we are both correct in a way. But the earlier post was arbitrary and misleading. To select the appropriate equipment, it just be worn, as face, shapes, sizes, etc., can vary, the right type of mask must be used that ensures a tight, leak free seal. In addition, the mask and it's filtering capabilities must match the potential permissible exposure limits as not all filters can filter 100% of contaminants. The N95 actually signifies that it can only filter 95% if the material it is rated for (TWA). And if the mask doesn't fit correctly, then the apparatus is upscaled, half face, and even full face masks to provide the correct "fitting" or seal. Again, the type matched to the exposure.

The fitment and filtration are two separate and succinct concerns and must be associated with the material being exposed to, the amount of time being exposed, etc., etc.

Again, "Fit Testing" is not just a process of putting a mask on and seeing how it seals. Not trying to create any long disagreement, as we are almost talking the same thing. But it's important that people understand the difference if they're (not you) going to be throwing information out there

Hope everyone stays safe! It's nice out today, think I'm gonna go for a ride (M240) hahahaha

Excellent explanation. Being in the chemical industry, I know all too well about this.

You can imagine what's involved when we do "fit testing" for our employee's for full face respirators.

On a side note, we donated most of our N95's to the hospital. We also donated about 80% of our Tyvek suit stock.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

Yes, yes if course there are variations, and I could have been more loose with my description.

The testing of proper equipment (mask) to be used is not the process of "Fit Testing"... In its entirety. Is what I should have said

As an aside, if you issued respirators without a medical practitioner signing off on it, you would be potentially culpable if that employee were to suffer any injury from it (restricted breathing). There is no Good Samaritan protection for the "Responsible Person" issuing said respirators to an employee. Some States even allow for that employer representative to be personally liable for "negligence" in an injury.

Not many are even aware that in a work environment (U.S.), if masks are sitting there on a shelf for employee use, but is not mandated by the employer representative, they're just masks, or tools that can be used. Once a work task is identified to "require" a mask, and the Responsible Person informs, and requires, (employees completing said task) that they must wear a mask, it becomes a respirator! And there is a world of difference between the two examples.

The Process of determining the appropriate equipment to be used requires the proper fitment, yes of course. And yes, we are both correct in a way. But the earlier post was arbitrary and misleading. To select the appropriate equipment, it just be worn, as face, shapes, sizes, etc., can vary, the right type of mask must be used that ensures a tight, leak free seal. In addition, the mask and it's filtering capabilities must match the potential permissible exposure limits as not all filters can filter 100% of contaminants. The N95 actually signifies that it can only filter 95% if the material it is rated for (TWA). And if the mask doesn't fit correctly, then the apparatus is upscaled, half face, and even full face masks to provide the correct "fitting" or seal. Again, the type matched to the exposure.

The fitment and filtration are two separate and succinct concerns and must be associated with the material being exposed to, the amount of time being exposed, etc., etc.

Again, "Fit Testing" is not just a process of putting a mask on and seeing how it seals. Not trying to create any long disagreement, as we are almost talking the same thing. But it's important that people understand the difference if they're (not you) going to be throwing information out there

Hope everyone stays safe! It's nice out today, think I'm gonna go for a ride (M240) hahahaha

Interesting info about the liability of employers once masks are required for a job. I had a job way back when where I was required to wear a mask but I don't think this liability applied in my situation. The masks I had to wear were military M17 gas masks. The job I had required me to work around chemical surety agents. In lay person speak, chemical surety agents are chemical warfare compounds....GA, GD, CK, Lewisite, HD, etc. The fit testing was done under the supervision of one of the scientists/technical supervisors at the company. This required the use of a compound that emits a specific smell where it's waved around the mask seal points on your face as you move your head around to ensure no vapors are picked up by your nose. The maintenance of the masks are done by the US Army and are picked up on a set routine schedule.

In addition, the lab facility I worked in had periodic inspections by the US Army to ensure documentation and physical safety standards were upheld.

[alby on boost]

First off I totally agree with everyone that healthcare providers need it more than us. I am not trying to hoard these.

I'm just afraid of being asymptomatic and spreading it to anyone I come in contact with.

Secondly, unlike here, in other countries such as South Korea, the government urged EVERYONE to wear masks and the curve flattened out pretty fast over there.

CDC is considering taking the stance that everyone should wear a mask here as well:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...t-the-question

[alby on boost]

By the way, I ordered masks from here and they just arrived today.

www.usamaskoutlet.com

They were individually wrapped and they state they donate masks for each sale so that's nice if it's true.

[Kolyan2k]

Apparently you can get shit ton of masks from China. There is a group in FC, people wanted to help hospitals connect with suppliers in China to bring masks to New England hospitals in a matter of days (a week maybe), well guess what...hospitals refused and got pissed, said if you wanna help donate for free. So basically masks are available, but hospital Administration is incompetent, and top officials aren't ready to spend bonus money.

Gronk donated 10k masks, I am guessing he also bought from China.

I can post a link to this person's website, he is asking for donations to order masks and donate. He already did with his own money as far as I know, shipment went through

Edit: yep, Patriots just donated 1 million masks this morning that they order from China. Its shocking that our hospitals put so many personal in danger. People should be held responsible for this

[Kolyan2k]

Also 60 ton shipments arrived in NYC from Russia with medical supplies, ventilators, masks etc

[cooolone2]

Useful comparison chart:

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...classes-tb.pdf

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Apparently you can get shit ton of masks from China. There is a group in FC, people wanted to help hospitals connect with suppliers in China to bring masks to New England hospitals in a matter of days (a week maybe), well guess what...hospitals refused and got pissed, said if you wanna help donate for free. So basically masks are available, but hospital Administration is incompetent, and top officials aren't ready to spend bonus money.

Gronk donated 10k masks, I am guessing he also bought from China.

I can post a link to this person's website, he is asking for donations to order masks and donate. He already did with his own money as far as I know, shipment went through

Edit: yep, Patriots just donated 1 million masks this morning that they order from China. Its shocking that our hospitals put so many personal in danger. People should be held responsible for this

Maybe they are leery of accepting anything from China? I already read that the test kits they sent out were faulty.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Rmtt

Maybe they are leery of accepting anything from China? I already read that the test kits they sent out were faulty.

I think 3M masks are made partially in China as well. And after all they do accept mask donations from China so I am guessing they are just fine. Edit: yeah, there is 3m factory in China

Officials dont want to take any responsibility....that's possible, but we are talking about people getting infected and dying daily, maybe it's not such a bad idea to order some masks in small test shipment like Gronk did, 10k masks and today 1 milion

[smyles]

... and few years we'll see all those lawyer "if you purchased XXXX masks in 2020 and suffered from YYYY, you may be entitled..." ads.

[Maynard]

FWIW, the flimsy cloth type procedure masks, or even a bandanna, is very effective at preventing you from SPREADING the virus. Go full cowboy when you visit Grandma. The better masks (N95 and up) are to actually filter your inhalation to keep you from getting virus in. Even N95 is iffy - better, but far from a total blockade.

Much of the confusion about this is coming from different understandings of the question 'what should I do?' and the false hope that any answer will be for the "...to be totally safe" version. If you want total security, you need to live in a surgical clean room or a remote island where you grow your own food and have ZERO contact; everything else is a probabilistic scenario of 'good enough'. Using a true respirator is great, but it is like wearing those $400 SFI driving shoes with your street clothes - they are fireproof, but without a full suit you still burn up in a fire. If you are in an environment that is contaminated, you'll have virus all over your clothes, hair, and getting into your eyes. So when they say an N95 is overkill, they mean it won't really add to your functional protection much.

[Hawkeye]

Thankfully I have a woodworking shop in my basement so I have a small stock of 3M P100 particulate filters and Organic Gas filters (for chemical work) along with enough styles of masks to fit my family... just in case.

I did see the CDC was thinking of changing the recommendation to not wear masks for the general public. I have been wearing what I already had available because.... better safe than sorry! (as I am not taking away from people that need them more)

For fit testing, doesn't have to be too ridiculous, I just do the standard inhale and exhale tests to ensure a good seal has been made.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Also 60 ton shipments arrived in NYC from Russia with medical supplies, ventilators, masks etc

are you talking about the shipment that came in on sunday to JFK?