[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

$200K would be pretty comfortable in retirement for most!

Well, I **do** have to plan for that 2028 "Last Model Year" MT G87 M2C.

AND parts.

AND track time.

It adds up.

And? My wife's a foodie and a wine snob, so I have to factor that in.

R.

[chassis]

4% rule of thumb and many other topics are exhaustively covered on the bogleheads and early-retirement sites.

@RickFLM4 do you participate on bogleheads or e-r? Why do you believe a consistent 10% return in retirement is not realistic? What is your asset allocation today?

Separately, large wealth and zero, or near zero taxable income is a possible scenario with a large dividend generating portfolio.

In my view income and wealth, which for me means net worth, are not inextricably connected.

[unluky]

Originally Posted by chassis

4% rule of thumb and many other topics are exhaustively covered on the bogleheads and early-retirement sites.

@RickFLM4 do you participate on bogleheads or e-r? Why do you believe a consistent 10% return in retirement is not realistic? What is your asset allocation today?

Separately, large wealth and zero, or near zero taxable income is a possible scenario with a large dividend generating portfolio.

In my view income and wealth, which for me means net worth, are not inextricably connected.

I'd say (and proved) that 10%+ is possible - but I don't want to bank on it. I don't want the market to determine if I retired too early or not - to that degree anyway. I plan on 3%-4% in retirement and anything else is gravy. I'd rather spend a ridiculous amount on my coffin to spend the rest, that be a Wal-Mart greeter at 85......

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Yeah but I think the 4% rule includes consumption of the investment or most of it before you check out. $200K would be pretty comfortable in retirement for most!

I've been drawing 4% per year out of my portfolio and its still growing - 26% more value today than when I retired 9.5 years ago. And, we're conservatively invested, as is appropriate for our age.

[chassis]

The 4% rule does not assume portfolio depletion at end of plan (demise of the principals).

If portfolio return is 10%, or even a conservative 8% per year, 4% annual withdrawals result in a growing portfolio over the period of the plan.

[kscarrol]

Or actually made the money over the course of their career?

[rebekahb]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Or actually made the money over the course of their career?

Bingo! This girl didn't come from jack squat. Worked for every damn thing. My parents didn't buy one book or pay one cent toward my degrees. It made me want to work and be financially independent.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by rebekahb

Bingo! This girl didn't come from jack squat. Worked for every damn thing. My parents didn't buy one book or pay one cent toward my degrees. It made me want to work and be financially independent.

Yup, my parents helped a little, as much as they could, probably $5K or so over the course of my university studies I'd guess, but otherwise, just worked like a dog. Got a good job, worked harder, and God has really blessed my wife and I.

I was fortunate enough to be given a 15 year old car in my last year of high school by my grandparents so I could commute between high schools to take an accounting course not offered at my current school. But on the other end, that car was completely unreliable and always breaking down on the highway, in the city, anywhere.

Right after my parents, I credit that car with much of what instilled a hard work ethic in me because I realized quickly if I didn't apply myself, this was the type of car I'd be driving for the rest of my life! I'm serious too - it was a bit of a game changer. The straw that broke the camel's back so to speak - it was that final push I needed to start to apply myself.

[dscabra]

Being born and raised in a dirt-poor environment teaches you how to save and prepare for retirement. When your financial advisor is telling you that you need to spend more, that's a good place to be.

[XutvJet]

"Wealth" is all relative to the person. My wife's 44 y/o, single, no kids sister can make $20 last longer than anyone I know.

Wealth can be an addiction for many. It's never enough and they just want more and more.

I firmly believe many of the things we buy consume us and lead to us have to buy more things to support the things we buy. I'm 47 and don't want all the stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love cool cars and nice things but I don't need much of it. Less is more to my wife and I. We plan to retire multimillionaires in 4 to 6 years, buy a small home on some land, and travel. To us, that's very wealthy.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

"Wealth" is all relative to the person. My wife's 44 y/o, single, no kids sister can make $20 last longer than anyone I know.

Wealth can be an addiction for many. It's never enough and they just want more and more.

I firmly believe many of the things we buy consume us and lead to us have to buy more things to support the things we buy. I'm 47 and don't want all the stuff. Don't get me wrong, I love cool cars and nice things but I don't need much of it. Less is more to my wife and I. We plan to retire multimillionaires in 4 to 6 years, buy a small home on some land, and travel. To us, that's very wealthy.

And smart.

[2000cs]

On the retirement planning question, I found this site to be pretty helpful: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/ read the notes and play with the variables a bit.

For us, about 18 months before I retired my wife and I set up a “retirement” budget, which excluded some work-related expenses (suits) and upped some retirement spending (travel). We lived on that budget for a year to be sure we had it all thought through and ended up with an annual expense number that we are comfortable with. We did this because my job income was several multiples of my expected expenses, and we needed to be sure (when I was working we could “waste” money if we felt like it, now we are more careful) we had the expenses right.

Subtract whatever you believe about social security. Then the equation is how to get that much money every year, plus inflation and have some for extraordinary losses (deductibles, medical). And think about changes to income taxes (especially an increase in cap gains taxes).

For us the retirement number is a lot lower than the numbers others have posted in this thread. But being conservative in planning (but aggressive in investing), we saved about 20% more than we needed to satisfy the above. That ensures the accounts grow in normal years and have enough buffer if there is a big correction, especially in early years.

You can plan the retirement savings as an annuity (use the principal every year in addition to the income, with an expectation of x years until the money, and you, are gone), or as an estate (use only the income each year, maintaining or ideally growing the principal). The former allows earlier retirement if you are pretty sure of the timeframe (how long you will live), the latter is more conservative but takes longer to accumulate.

Back to the thread topic: Having enough for retirement doesn’t make me wealthy, in my mind. I call that comfortable. Having enough to never worry about it, not need to budget, and so forth, is wealthy. Jets and yachts are fabulously wealthy markers.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

When you dont need to work and you dont look at price tags when you shop!

Hmmmmm.... guess I'm wealthy... couldn't tell you what a gallon of milk costs for the life of me.

Originally Posted by VertigoAtHome

On feeling wealthy, someone told me a long time ago that people are generally happy as long as their net worth grows no matter how much money they have. And the object is to maintain and ideally grow your net worth relative to your peers and friends. That is, you become unhappy when you feel your sliding backwards relative to your socio-economic status. Wealth can be a fleeting thing, here today gone tomorrow!

I read something a long time about about a study looking at income vs happiness and I believe up to around $70k people got happier the more they made. However after $70k more income made no difference in happiness.

For me I would say it's totally true. I make more now than I ever did before, but I can't say I'm that much more happy now than I was back then. I guess the old adage stands true, mo money mo problems

[tom2021]

I agree with most that wealthy is a relative term.
It is difficult to measure in term of dollars. Where you live can be a big factor.
I feel wealthy if I can:
- afford to buy things that I like without thinking too much about the price.
Certainly normal things, not jet plane, yachts, etc.
- care more about the services than the prices. No need to shop around.
- afford all medical procedures and medicines.

For example: I go to the store, I like the suit and they serve me well, I will buy, no matter the price is $10,000 or more. I get sick, I go to the clinic, I can consult with MD and specialist, receive all necessary checks, procedures and medication, even surgery if required.

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by tom2021

I agree with most that wealthy is a relative term.
It is difficult to measure in term of dollars. Where you live can be a big factor.
I feel wealthy if I can:
- afford to buy things that I like without thinking too much about the price.
Certainly normal things, not jet plane, yachts, etc.
- care more about the services than the prices. No need to shop around.
- afford all medical procedures and medicines.

For example: I go to the store, I like the suit and they serve me well, I will buy, no matter the price is $10,000 or more. I get sick, I go to the clinic, I can consult with MD and specialist, receive all necessary checks, procedures and medication, even surgery if required.

You've paid $10,000 for a suit?

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

You've paid $10,000 for a suit?

Tom is very wealthy.

[Littlebear]

More than wot I have.
Always.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by tom2021

I go to the store, I like the suit and they serve me well, I will buy, no matter the price is $10,000 or more.

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

You've paid $10,000 for a suit?

Suit of armor perhaps? Let's hope.

[gtr2M3]

I have a wide variety of wealthy clients

The happiest ones live modestly, could be your neighbor and you wouldn’t know it

They usually have their one or two things that they spare no expense on wether it be a plane they fly or a couple cars they enjoy

These are genuinely happy people

They own companies with 500-5000 employees so you can imagine their net worth

I learn from them daily on what is truly important in life and oddly to some, it isn’t owning the most fancy things

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

On the retirement planning question, I found this site to be pretty helpful: https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/ read the notes and play with the variables a bit.

Thank you so much for posting this. This was eye-opening. Since I fired my broker years ago and invest/manage everything myself now, I've been looking for a calculator to help me get a rough idea when I can retire. When I say "retire" it means that I have enough money to not have to work, but that doesn't mean I'm not working to some extent. My job is such that I can go 30 hours a week (75% of my salary, bonus, PTO, etc.) or 20 hours (no benefits, but a higher hourly rate since they aren't paying benefits).

After playing with the numbers, it looks like I can reduce my hours and/or retire much sooner than I thought while not greatly impacting our nest egg.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by gtr2M3

I have a wide variety of wealthy clients

The happiest ones live modestly, could be your neighbor and you wouldn’t know it

They usually have their one or two things that they spare no expense on wether it be a plane they fly or a couple cars they enjoy

Millionaire next door. That's how my wife and I live and will continue to live. We like the good stuff, but not everything needs to be the good stuff and for the good stuff we have, we don't want much of it. We like to keep people guessing:

Are they financially stupid?

Who died and gave them money?

Do they make more than we think? If so, why do they have such a cheap house and drive such nice cars?

Why don't they ever talk about money?

[FNR32]

I define it as having an amount of money that I can live well pulling interest off of. We all define "living well" differently, but for me it's a decent upper middle class lifestyle. I'm not interested in lambo and yachts. For me, the ticket is 5 Million.

I live, and will continue to live, in a state with a low COL, so even pulling 3% off of that 5m in interest per year gives me 150k in income in additional to what we already earn. The house is paid off so no real "major" monthly bills. I think the 5m is both reasonable and attainable at some point.