[fanofbmwe46]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

I wanted a 718 (Boxster or Cayman) GTS allocation and I have repeatedly been informed that it is not going to happen. Demand is off the charts and production is at a snail's pace.

Cayennes and Macans can easily be had. Non GT 992 allocations 12-18 months depending which model.

I waited 9 months for my base cayman last year. Paid MSRP. A few months ago my dealer offered me a GTS allocation for $10K over which I declined. When I asked about a 911 T upon the announcement of them, he said I could be #1 on the list at MSRP. GT3s are pretty much impossible unless paying $100K over sticker

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by fanofbmwe46

I waited 9 months for my base cayman last year. Paid MSRP. A few months ago my dealer offered me a GTS allocation for $10K over which I declined. When I asked about a 911 T upon the announcement of them, he said I could be #1 on the list at MSRP. GT3s are pretty much impossible unless paying $100K over sticker

Our sister Porsche stores sells every model at MSRP. Corporate policy.

[rosemont83]

Originally Posted by M3macster

When you do your Porsche shopping, what kind of availability has the dealership given you on those models? Or have you not pursued it that far? Just curious ... I've heard second hand that the GT cars are impossible unless you are 1 or 2 Porsches in already... the GTS is doable but a year- year and a half wait...

Have not went that far..

For most of those models, they're used, and mostly using autotrader and sites like that.

For the new models, I have a friend that is a salesman at a Porsche dealer, and he said they can get me an allocation but have large markups that he can't really do anything about. He sent me a sheet with all of their markups- 718 GT4 has a markup of 40k!!! Carrera GTS has a markup of 35k! GT3 markup is 150K..... Insane!
And this is as of 2 weeks ago.

Something very interesting though, included on the sheet he sent me, were the change in markups from the prior month. Markups have come down 1% from the prior month. Not a huge deal, but the direction of the markup is telling, and by waiting, I think these will accelerate significantly until they're gone. How long that will take, not sure.

Something else interesting though, he said that Porsche sent them an email that production on 911's will be cut in half for the upcoming year. Not sure if Porsche is having supply side or production issues, or perhaps trying to artificially inflate their prices

[rosemont83]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

Our sister Porsche stores sells every model at MSRP. Corporate policy.

That sounds pretty nice... perhaps I will have to reach out to you if I don't go with an M2, or a house... LOL

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by rosemont83

Have not went that far..

For most of those models, they're used, and mostly using autotrader and sites like that.

For the new models, I have a friend that is a salesman at a Porsche dealer, and he said they can get me an allocation but have large markups that he can't really do anything about. He sent me a sheet with all of their markups- 718 GT4 has a markup of 40k!!! Carrera GTS has a markup of 35k! GT3 markup is 150K..... Insane!
And this is as of 2 weeks ago.

Something very interesting though, included on the sheet he sent me, were the change in markups from the prior month. Markups have come down 1% from the prior month. Not a huge deal, but the direction of the markup is telling, and by waiting, I think these will accelerate significantly until they're gone. How long that will take, not sure.

Something else interesting though, he said that Porsche sent them an email that production on 911's will be cut in half for the upcoming year. Not sure if Porsche is having supply side or production issues, or perhaps trying to artificially inflate their prices

What?!! Is it because of EPA and other government regulations on carbon emissions? And those markups. Kind of expected that but how ridiculous. M8 is looking better and better. And so is my M3CX @ MSRP.

[BRAKE!]

I love Porsches and especially lighter weight 911s with a manual. Its bespoke chassis is built to be a sports car from the ground up (as opposed to taking a daily sedan platform and modifying it)

However, it is not that practical. Sure it's more practical than a Ferrari, Lotus, Lambo, but it's not practical compared to even a hatchback for daily use. Also the price is insane right now; these markups make every Porsche no longer a 'bargain.'

Lastly, what I have noticed is that a Porsche is a wonderful car to drive, but the roads have to be immaculate to enjoy it. When you're driving a car that's that low to the ground and costs what it does... every speed bump, pot hole, curb, parking lot, steep driveways, dbag drivers, bother you. You are constantly scanning for these things and it sucks the joy out of driving it. Never mind the maintenance costs...

For these reasons, I think it's actually more fun to drive a M car. Less glamorous, but also a lot less worrisome and stressful. It's a good car to have to drive in all conditions.

[zero21]

Ground clearance isn't light years difference. 911 is 4in - the new M2 is 4.5 and M suspension accessory add-on drops it 1/2in. Ultimately a lot of M cars are the same height after small mod like that.

If you don't do it it's a good 20% difference which isn't insignificant though. Just saying a lot of cars are lightly modded with lowering spring of modest height and come out equal to a super car.

[10"]

Originally Posted by DocJohn

Price makes them completely different animals. The M2 is a great micro-supercar that can be used as a daily and parked at the mall.
My second car is a 911, and I don't see myself putting snow tires on it. With the M2, I am looking forward to how it does with a set of Blizzaks!

911s have incredible traction on snow—way better than other RWD cars. Engine is in the back so the rear has crazy good grip.

I drive my 1M every winter and it's hilarious fun, but if I had a 911 I wouldn't hestitate to throw that thing into the snow! :P

[10"]

Very different cars.

only on forums full of daydreamers do people cross shop a $120k 911 with a $60k M2. Lol.

I've driven so many 911s now from every era and they aren't for me. I find them very clinical and cold, the modern ones at least—and the older ones I'd prefer other classic cars. They're very popular with people but they just aren't fun to me. The last time I drove a 911 GTS and got back into my 1M and I loved my 1M more than ever!!! The 1M feels like an intoxicated monkey compared to the 911 being a guerilla.

[T_U_D]

Just dropping this here.

[fanofbmwe46]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

Just dropping this here.

Great vid.

Here's how I try to substantiate the price of the Carrera T vs the M2.

M2 = call it $65K
+ $10K for Porsche gearbox over M2
+ $10K for Porsche styling over M2
+ $10K for Porsche interior with analog buttons
+ $5K for Porsche sport exhaust / sound over M2
+ $5K for Porsche brakes over M2 (rear brake isn't a puny floating caliper)

Add it up and essentially my willingness to pay for the T is $105K, which is still about $15K short of the MSRP. So essentially even though I love and would be willing to pay a premium for the pros listed above… the M2 still represents better value.

[Caerus]

I have been a 911 fan for along time and I have had a few. But I no longer like the rear end of this car. There, I said it.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by Caerus

I have been a 911 fan for along time and I have had a few. But I no longer like the rear end of this car. There, I said it.

The 992 rear looks very Panamera’ish and it is almost the size of one too, sarcasm. Regardless, I still greatly admire the 992.

[Caerus]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

The rear looks very Panamera’ish and it is almost the size of one too, sarcasm. Regardless, I still greatly admire the 992.

The rear end of the 991 and 997 looks to me so much better. Wow, I sound so much like the F87 guys trashing the G87.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by Caerus

The rear end of the 991 and 997 looks to me so much better. Wow, I sound so much like the F87 guys trashing the G87.

Let’s be honest, the 997, .1 and even more so the .2 were the last of the properly sized, analog 911s. Do not get me wrong, I would gladly own a manual 992 Carrera S.

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by Caerus

The rear end of the 991 and 997 looks to me so much better. Wow, I sound so much like the F87 guys trashing the G87.

Same here, I find the base 992 rear bumper really ugly, I can only accept it with the sport design package.
But in terms of aesthetics, overall I prefer the Carrera 991 and 997 to the 992.

[Jims M3]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

My Carrera T spec is $135,580. I dig it but think I'd probably theoretically choose a Z06 for $128,035.

How do you plan on getting a Z06

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by Jims M3

How do you plan on getting a Z06

You're noticing exactly why I added the "theoretically" qualifier. 😉

[Bimmerfun82]

Dropped by Porsche today and sat in this beauty. Nice of them to let me sit in a $500,000 model.

Reminded me just how special the 911 is. Just a different world. Put in a deposit for an allocation for a T. Should be interesting…

[Lauren8]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Same here, I find the base 992 rear bumper really ugly, I can only accept it with the sport design package.
But in terms of aesthetics, overall I prefer the Carrera 991 and 997 to the 992.

Had the 997 (2012 911 turbo), currently 992. Preferred the 992 rear any day.

[T_U_D]

Doug DeMuro

[LimeRock]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

Let's be honest, the 997, .1 and even more so the .2 were the last of the properly sized, analog 911s. Do not get me wrong, I would gladly own a manual 992 Carrera S.

I'm with you, my 997 felt perfectly sized as a sports car. I have driven the new 992 a number of times and it's definitely large. The extra space will be great for everyday use though.