[xander_g]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

I'm surprised that Audi and MB are so low.

I'm not, several of my friends have been having constant issues with theirs. MB has been on a downward trajectory for some time. I've would have been surprised about Audi a few years ago but apparently they've made some changes that affected reliability and build quality lately. Hopefully they get it together. Kinda like them.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

I'm surprised that Audi and MB are so low.

Audi and VW are some of the lowest quality vehicles I have ever owned.

Lots of money spent on interiors and little on the engineering of the parts that make the thing go.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by xander_g

I'm not, several of my friends have been having constant issues with theirs. MB has been on a downward trajectory for some time. I've would have been surprised about Audi a few years ago but apparently they've made some changes that affected reliability and build quality lately. Hopefully they get it together. Kinda like them.

Merc peaked with the W204 and W212. They needed their reputation back after Chrysler nearly sank them.

I had an S204 that was a fantasic car. Great build quality and mechanicals. Many examples here have over 400,000 km on them. Things took a turn for the worse afterward.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Most of the people you are describing have never owned another car before

Not exactly. They are just tired of maintenance and all the things that in my opinion make car ownership fun and exciting

[Grease23]

Originally Posted by Mavus

damn man shitty company … did you get a loaner from them? any compensation or refunds?

Nope. Had the problem in April and they were talking a fix in July or August. Then it became an 'engineering review' for 6 months, ending 11/15/24. But still no part available as of 11/30/24. Now it is in a 'developmental stage' and this will last until May 15, 2025. No idea if a part will be available as of 5/15/25. I asked for a loaner and they said "no." The part in question has been problematic since the 2017 models; mine is a 2021. There was a recall on earlier models for the part, but they weren't actually replacing the problematic part -- they were just reprogramming the vehicles so they failed in a less dangerous way.

They simply are not honoring the CPO warranty which was a deal breaker for me in the purchase, seeing as one of my friends bought a Gladiator and the engine failed with less than 5000 miles on it. I'd had issues with my prior Liberty and Grand Cherokee. I've concluded that Jeeps are indeed rugged, but they certainly are not reliable.

You bet they will be compensating me.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Not exactly. They are just tired of maintenance and all the things that in my opinion make car ownership fun and exciting

I might not be close to getting a cigar, but I’m close enough

Where I live a majority of the Tesla owners or tech workers that have never owned a car before

So they don’t give a shit about build quality they don’t care about the paint quality all they care about is it has a big f’ing iPad in the center of the dash

Keep in mind I’m on #2 Model 3 as a DD

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by Grease23

As the owner of a still-warrantied recent Jeep product which will be out of commission for at least THIRTEEN MONTHS because the mfg. cannot supply a driveline part, I can relate.



(And if that works, it is my first emoji.)

Same situation happened with my last (of many) Jeep. Still under warranty, the transfer case grenaded when my wife was backing out of the driveway to go get groceries. It took months to get a replacement with no offering of a rental.

LAST JEEP.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Grease23

Nope. Had the problem in April and they were talking a fix in July or August. Then it became an 'engineering review' for 6 months, ending 11/15/24. But still no part available as of 11/30/24. Now it is in a 'developmental stage' and this will last until May 15, 2025. No idea if a part will be available as of 5/15/25. I asked for a loaner and they said "no." The part in question has been problematic since the 2017 models; mine is a 2021. There was a recall on earlier models for the part, but they weren't actually replacing the problematic part — they were just reprogramming the vehicles so they failed in a less dangerous way.

They simply are not honoring the CPO warranty which was a deal breaker for me in the purchase, seeing as one of my friends bought a Gladiator and the engine failed with less than 5000 miles on it. I'd had issues with my prior Liberty and Grand Cherokee. I've concluded that Jeeps are indeed rugged, but they certainly are not reliable.

You bet they will be compensating me.

tbh this is hard to believe … fkg crazy

If you said Alfa R I’d believe it but not being able to get parts for Jeep wtf are they doing … or not doing

[sirwestofash]

Originally Posted by ghaffari46

I don’t know about rivian, but I have total of 50k miles on 2 teslas and I don’t know even where is the dealership ( or repair center) is.
Same as my ix, 14k and not a single issue.
I don’t know why people call EVs unreliable.

50k miles isn't a test of reliability. I'd say 74k to 120k and if it makes it to 150k to 200k after doing major service like spark plugs for ICE, belts and pumps. Or battery replacement and pump replacements for Teslas.

My parents had old suburban, tahoes, and newer 2010 vehicles that have gotten 250k 350k and 400k miles. I know the complexity of more sensors and take makes things more likely to fail after 7 to 9 years but still. With average 20k miles a year. That should get you to 150k to 200k before any major problems happen.

[Shaw]

As soon as I saw Rivian placed first it was obvious. 🙄

[ghaffari46]

Originally Posted by sirwestofash

50k miles isn't a test of reliability. I'd say 74k to 120k and if it makes it to 150k to 200k after doing major service like spark plugs for ICE, belts and pumps. Or battery replacement and pump replacements for Teslas.

My parents had old suburban, tahoes, and newer 2010 vehicles that have gotten 250k 350k and 400k miles. I know the complexity of more sensors and take makes things more likely to fail after 7 to 9 years but still. With average 20k miles a year. That should get you to 150k to 200k before any major problems happen.

To me as a consumer who usually don’t keep cars more than 3 years, needing zero repairs during ownership is a big deal.
Well built EV cars have way less parts and require almost zero maintenance. Simple physics.
BTW is not like that the battery will die immediately after 10 years mark, most of EVs are holding 70-80% of batteries after 10 years.

[HudsonB]

I think the biggest question is who the 1 out of 5 that wouldnt buy a porsche again

[JFS007]

Originally Posted by xander_g

I'm not, several of my friends have been having constant issues with theirs. MB has been on a downward trajectory for some time. I've would have been surprised about Audi a few years ago but apparently they've made some changes that affected reliability and build quality lately. Hopefully they get it together. Kinda like them.

For my wife it was the MB experience whenever something broke and they needed to fix it - there was zero emphatic behavior from the staff which drove her nuts.
For me and Audi, two things drove me to BMW: 1) Terrible service experience, 2) Ordering something that is not on a lot or on a ship is almost impossible. I tried to order/buy an RS6 Avant for about 6 months, but it was impossible to get what I wanted.

[F32Fleet]

Predicted reliability was average for BMW.

Basically BMW provides the readers of CR a good driving experience but average reliability (The chart has been edited)..

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...s-a6159221985/

Reliability ranking below

https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...s-a7824554938/

[sirwestofash]

Originally Posted by ghaffari46

To me as a consumer who usually don’t keep cars more than 3 years, needing zero repairs during ownership is a big deal.
Well built EV cars have way less parts and require almost zero maintenance. Simple physics.
BTW is not like that the battery will die immediately after 10 years mark, most of EVs are holding 70-80% of batteries after 10 years.

I get that but the average age of All cars in the United States on the roads being 12.7 years. I think most people strive for a replacement cycle of 6 to 9 years.

Obviously in a bmw forum catered to high end cars and enthusiast vehicles we might have more financial means and desire to replace ours every 3 to 5 years that most people can't replicate.

[orkinos]

It amazes me that a car company is ranked third in satisfaction that cannot even give a hoot to adjust the aim of their cars' headlights correctly before they leave the factory.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by orkinos

It amazes me that a car company is ranked third in satisfaction that cannot even give a hoot to adjust the aim of their cars' headlights correctly before they leave the factory.

I’m not sure if that’s actually true or not.
Here’s the problem. They allow the end user to sit in the car and adjusted the headlights themselves without having a fucking clue as to what they’re actually doing.

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by Grease23

As the owner of a still-warrantied recent Jeep product which will be out of commission for at least THIRTEEN MONTHS because the mfg. cannot supply a driveline part, I can relate.



(And if that works, it is my first emoji.)

Im on my 4th Grand Cherokee as my daily and overall I’ve obviously been very happy. But.. I did wait for over 2 years to get a fuel pump on recall notice that the stock one in my eco diesel could (possibly) implode and strand me. It never did.

[gym_carrey]

List is a bit sus.
I mean, look at Rivian’s sales.

If you’re surveying 10 people who bought a Rivian and they all give 5-stars to the brand vs you survey 100,000 people who bought a BMW and they give 4.5-5 stars, definitely Rivian would win.

Rivian is barely surviving. A particular niche is buying this product so naturally they’ll be like “Elon heads” and say “my brand is the best”.

Even here in BC, I have seen less than a handful trucks of theirs with one belonging to the Sales Director of Western Canada.

In recent times even the old heads are buying the “ultimate flagship experience” rather than their usual corvettes, camaros etc. Literally yesterday I waved at an old head (easy 60+) driving a brand new 2025 M4 Competition.

If they can publish how they surveyed owners that’d be nice.

[dezzracer]

Rivian sold 37,396 vehicles last year and lost $4 billion. That’s $107k per vehicle. Last month Biden administration announced it was giving Rivian a $6 billion loan. Obviously they have some financial challenges. I would be nervous if I owned one.

[Vindicator3]

They pretty much did say what the survey was - in the one quoted in the OP, they didn't ask the owners to rate the vehicles with stars, they didn't ask about how long the wait was or how many repairs they've had - they asked the owners whether they would buy the same vehicle again. That's it, one catch-all type question. The star ratings presumably were applied by CR based on what percentage of owners said yes to that question.

So Rivian, with a small customer base relative to other mfrs, has a very high percentage of owners who say they would buy the same vehicle again. That is one data point. The reliability and other rankings are different data points.

I wouldn't question the data, I would just understand what it is, and therefore what it does and does not mean. It's one data point relating to responses to a single question.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by HudsonB

I think the biggest question is who the 1 out of 5 that wouldnt buy a porsche again

People whose first Porsche was a Taycan. Loved my '23 CT 4S, but after the third recall of HV battery may short circuit and cause a fire, plus faulty HV heater, tons of issues with the PCM just going black, and other more minor issues, I traded it in. That was my third Porsche, so I know that is more of a legacy automaker trying to get EVs right, and will buy another Taycan in the future. Go to Taycanforum and read through any post regarding issues, most people will not.