[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by basscadet

The F80 looks better with its flared fenders and less-droopy ass.

However, this car will eat the F80's lunch and beg for more. Too bad BMW can't grow some balls like Mercedes and put a real engine in their sporty cars.

We will see

To say the least, you are more convinced this car will be faster around the track than the m3 than I am.

The m3 will be more balanced than the c63 as usual and will be closer in speed than the last gen was.

Not to mention one of the two has the option of a manual transmssion....

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by CSanto

When are we expecting this car to be announced? S version has me intrigued.

Tobias said we will see could see it as soon as the New York Auto Show, while others say Paris. I have a deposit down for an S allocation.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

We will see

To say the least, you are more convinced this car will be faster around the track than the m3 than I am.

The m3 will be more balanced than the c63 as usual and will be closer in speed than the last gen was.

Not to mention one of the two has the option of a manual transmssion....

The "S" model is going to be blazing fast. Expect more power and way more torque than the W204 507 Edition.

I expect it to play out like this:

Both AMGs will be faster in a straight line.

The M3 will be easier to drive faster around a circuit because of its legendary balance, lower weight, and increased (but not overbearing) power output.

With capable test drivers, the C63 will lap faster around the 'ring, Big Willow, and other tracks filled with fast straights and high-speed sweepers. Conversely, on tighter, more technical courses, the M3 might still retain the edge.

Both cars will be excellent and the styling, along with the transmission options, will be the deciding factors for most.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

The "S" model is going to be blazing fast. Expect more power and way more torque than the W204 507 Edition.

I expect it to play out like this:

Both AMGs will be faster in a straight line.

The M3 will be easier to drive faster around a circuit because of its legendary balance, lower weight, and increased (but not overbearing) power output.

With capable test drivers, the C63 will lap faster around the 'ring, Big Willow, and other tracks filled with fast straights and high-speed sweepers. Conversely, on tighter, more technical courses, the M3 might still retain the edge.

Both cars will be excellent and the styling, along with the transmission options, will be the deciding factors for most.

I have a deposit down for an S allocation spot.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Rev ///Me

I have a deposit down for an S allocation spot.

That's awesome that your dealer was able to provide you an allocation.

I am still in the first year with my '13 W204. I'm going to hang onto it for a while and enjoy one of the last great NA V8s. Later in the year, however, I could still be looking to add either an F80 or W205 and park it next to the C63 and E550.

Until that time, I will be living vicariously through your impressions of the car after you get your hands on it.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

That's awesome that your dealer was able to provide you an allocation.

I am still in the first year with my '13 W204. I'm going to hang onto it for a while and enjoy one of the last great NA V8s. Later in the year, however, I could still be looking to add either an F80 or W205 and park it next to the C63 and E550.

Until that time, I will be living vicariously through your impressions of the car after you get your hands on it.

It's going to be an awesome stable of cars either way.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

The "S" model is going to be blazing fast. Expect more power and way more torque than the W204 507 Edition.

I expect it to play out like this:

Both AMGs will be faster in a straight line.

The M3 will be easier to drive faster around a circuit because of its legendary balance, lower weight, and increased (but not overbearing) power output.

With capable test drivers, the C63 will lap faster around the 'ring, Big Willow, and other tracks filled with fast straights and high-speed sweepers. Conversely, on tighter, more technical courses, the M3 might still retain the edge.

Both cars will be excellent and the styling, along with the transmission options, will be the deciding factors for most.

we will see about that. I am not as convinced as you. the m3 has made huge improvments in straight line speed, braking and handling. I am not convinced that the c63 will be quicker around a circuit. perhaps the ring, but even there I am skeptical

the fun thing is that soon we will find out

EDIT : and as for now, BMW does not have an "S" model, or a competitive model for that car. So I don't think its a good comparison, nor is it a fair comparison based on price. I do fully expect BMW to release higher performance versions, a la competition pack etc as we progress into the model run. Based on the specs, the car will be extremely quick in a straight line (BMW quotes identical 0-1000km speeds as the m5 which is extremely fast), and if you want it to be faster, there will be plenty of power left on the table.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

we will see about that. I am not as convinced as you. the m3 has made huge improvments in straight line speed, braking and handling. I am not convinced that the c63 will be quicker around a circuit. perhaps the ring, but even there I am skeptical

the fun thing is that soon we will find out

EDIT : and as for now, BMW does not have an "S" model, or a competitive model for that car. So I don't think its a good comparison, nor is it a fair comparison based on price. I do fully expect BMW to release higher performance versions, a la competition pack etc as we progress into the model run. Based on the specs, the car will be extremely quick in a straight line (BMW quotes identical 0-1000km speeds as the m5 which is extremely fast), and if you want it to be faster, there will be plenty of power left on the table.

AMG S is Mercedes' answer to M Competition Package.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by Levi

AMG S is Mercedes' answer to M Competition Package.

Gotcha. But BMW doesn't offer a comp pack on the m3 yet. That's what I'm saying

Any ideas on pricing for the "s" package?

[basscadet]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

So I don't think its a good comparison, nor is it a fair comparison based on price. I do fully expect BMW to release higher performance versions, a la competition pack etc as we progress into the model run. Based on the specs, the car will be extremely quick in a straight line (BMW quotes identical 0-1000km speeds as the m5 which is extremely fast), and if you want it to be faster, there will be plenty of power left on the table.

0-1000km speeds? damn!

But seriously, the Competition Package is basically just a cosmetic thing, I love the wheels but I don't think any single person has ever been able to demonstrate there is any performance advantage with a ZCP car.

I am trying to decipher your F10 M5 vs F80 M3 performance comparison, is this essentially a 0-1000m comparison (~ 1/8 mile?). If so, I would not be surprised that a M3 can hang with a M5 up to such a short distance. I am much more interested in 1/4 mile trap speed which I believe will show that the F10 M5 is walking away from the M3. This is also probably at the same point that a non-S C63 will be walking away from the M3.

As I get older, I get less and less impressed with 1/4 mile times and care a lot more about 30-90mph or 60-100mph times as this is the range of speed where I really need commanding power on the roads. In my GT-R I would just touch the throttle and I would get from 60-100mph with such little effort it made merging on to highways so much more enjoyable.

[Black Gold]

0-1000m. Which is more than half a mile.

BMW stated the same times for the dct m3 and m5 at 21.9 seconds

In gear acceleration for this car should be fierce, of not quite as strong as a 2012 gtr.

It will be more than fast enough for me, and if not, easy to mod

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Rev ///Me

It's going to be an awesome stable of cars either way.

Thanks man! I need to get them both cleaned up. Still haven't taken photos of the two together (excluding the second photo; you can just barely see the C63 lurking to the left).

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

0-1000m. Which is more than half a mile.

BMW stated the same times for the dct m3 and m5 at 21.9 seconds

In gear acceleration for this car should be fierce, of not quite as strong as a 2012 gtr.

It will be more than fast enough for me, and if not, easy to mod

The F80 M3 ended up being even heavier than I anticipated.

Curb Weight - Automatic transmission - 3595 lbs

Curb Weight - Manual transmission - 3540 lbs

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

I have to believe that BMW's estimates are on the low side.

That's the case with the W204 C63. According to MBUSA, the sedan's curb weight is 3,649 lbs.

In the real word, the LCI sedan usually weighs between 3,700-3,850 lbs (with fuel but without a driver).

[Red Bread]

Pork, it's what German cars are made out of. Would it kill the automotive world to build a sub 3k pound rwd sedan with a third pedal? I'd settle for 3,200 pounds if it has an overabundance of power.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Pork, it's what German cars are made out of. Would it kill the automotive world to build a sub 3k pound rwd sedan with a third pedal? I'd settle for 3,200 pounds if it has an overabundance of power.

I hear ya loud and clear on that one. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to happen. That said, the way technology masks the weight of these cars is incredible. The only time I feel the weight in my C63 is when I'm corralling the rear end after some deliberate sideways hooliganism. The car snaps back with some authority because of the heft.

[TheBingoBalls]

I feel that if Mercedes makes special editions that reflect what they do best with AMG models (power and more of it!) BMW should do the same, which is decrease weight and sharpen the chassis. Maybe they did with the E92 GTS or the CRT but I don't recall it being that different considering they type of car it is.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

The F80 M3 ended up being even heavier than I anticipated.

Curb Weight - Automatic transmission - 3595 lbs

Curb Weight - Manual transmission - 3540 lbs

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

I have to believe that BMW's estimates are on the low side.

That's the case with the W204 C63. According to MBUSA, the sedan's curb weight is 3,649 lbs.

In the real word, the LCI sedan usually weighs between 3,700-3,850 lbs (with fuel but without a driver).

You should read more in the thread in the f80 section.

Clearly the car can be made heavier with options, it's always been that way.

Bottom line is that it is possible in a stripped m4 to be 3300-3350 lbs.

Us curb weight includes driver / luggage plus any extra options that are estimated to be sold in over 33% of cars.

It's the same for the e92. The din weihjt was 3486 and the us curb was 3704. Numjerous examples exist of e92 being weighed by magazines at 3525-3550 lbs with some options. Same story here. Us curb weight is just as innacurate.

All outlined well by boss330 in the f80 section.

[DrivenByE30]

Wow. I am impressed. This is looking really good compared to the regular C.

Its changing my view of the Merc.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

You should read more in the thread in the f80 section.

Clearly the car can be made heavier with options, it's always been that way.

Bottom line is that it is possible in a stripped m4 to be 3300-3350 lbs.

Us curb weight includes driver / luggage plus any extra options that are estimated to be sold in over 33% of cars.

It's the same for the e92. The din weihjt was 3486 and the us curb was 3704. Numjerous examples exist of e92 being weighed by magazines at 3525-3550 lbs with some options. Same story here. Us curb weight is just as innacurate.

All outlined well by boss330 in the f80 section.

Haha you're acting like I want the car to be heavier. I don't. I'm tempering my expectations.

I was just sharing the figures provided by the BMW website. And how can you definitively say that it will be possible for a U.S. specification, stripper M3 to weigh "X" when nobody has independently weighed one yet?

I have not once spoken in absolutes.

What I'm concerned about is the car's real, wet weight.

Also, I never said it would be impossible for an F80 to weigh in at something like 3,350 lbs. I have merely speculated regarding how much reasonably optioned, fueled-up F80s will weigh in the USA.

And I still stand by my predictions. What is a stripper F80 M3 anyway now that it comes standard with navigation, etc.?

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Haha you're acting like I want the car to be heavier. I don't. I'm tempering my expectations.

I was just sharing the figures provided by the BMW website. And how can you definitively say that it will be possible for a U.S. specification, stripper M3 to weigh "X" when nobody has independently weighed one yet?

I have not once spoken in absolutes.

What I'm concerned about is the car's real, wet weight.

Also, I never said it would be impossible for an F80 to weigh in at something like 3,350 lbs. I have merely speculated regarding how much reasonably optioned, fueled-up F80s will weigh in the USA.

And I still stand by my predictions. What is a stripper F80 M3 anyway now that it comes standard with navigation, etc.?

which options are reasonable? sunroof, auto trans, exec package, side view cameras?

it makes a lot more sense to me to talk about the base car. So to me, it doesn't make sense to say that the m3 will weigh 3530 lbs any more than it does to say the e92 weighs 3704 lbs. in reality most weigh closer to 3550 lbs with some moderate options.

quote from boss330 in the other forum, who knows a lot about European vs us weights

The BMW cars I have checked have allways included driver in the US curb weight. Adding driver, 10% fuel and a few options over the 3300lbs DIN curb weight also adds up with the stated US curb weight on BMWUSA.

A US M4 with MT 6, 90% fuel, standard equipment and no driver, should also weigh in at 3300lbs.

3300lbs
+10lbs fuel (6,3l of fuel weighs 4,5kg)
+165lbs driver
+55lbs options

Voila, you end up at 3530lbs!

you can dot the same thing to the e9x m3

3483lbs
+10lbs of fuel
+165 for driver
+55 options

3713, or very close to the listed US curb weight

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

which options are reasonable? sunroof, auto trans, exec package, side view cameras?

it makes a lot more sense to me to talk about the base car.

Probably because that's what you want to order. Which is fine.

Reasonably optioned means anything but a base/stripper car. The vast majority of people buying these cars won't be ordering base/stripper cars. That's because the majority of people getting these cars won't be the diehard enthusiasts. They want things like the "Executive Package." We're the minority.

Most dealers will order these cars in well-optioned for the customers that buy off the lot.

I think most of the enthusiasts on this board will at least spring for the "Exec. Package" (because of the Comfort Access and HUD) and maybe the "Driver Assistance Plus Package."

I really couldn't care less about how much the car will end up weighing because weight is not the sole criterion I use when deciding to purchase a car.

If you end up being right about the weight, I'll be more than happy to give you the credit that's due.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Probably because that's what you want to order. Which is fine.

Reasonably optioned means anything but a base/stripper car. The vast majority of people buying these cars won't be ordering base/stripper cars. That's because the majority of people getting these cars won't be the diehard enthusiasts. They want things like the "Executive Package." We're the minority.

Most dealers will order these cars in well-optioned for the customers that buy off the lot.

I think most of the enthusiasts on this board will at least spring for the "Exec. Package" (because of the Comfort Access and HUD) and maybe the "Driver Assistance Plus Package."

I really couldn't care less about how much the car will end up weighing because weight is not the sole criterion I use when deciding to purchase a car.

If you end up being right about the weight, I'll be more than happy to give you the credit that's due.

no credit needed, it's not like I designed it

the reason I use the base car, is that it is impossible to know how much the options weigh at this time. it is not impossible to calculate how much a base car will weigh.

you can use the data from the e9x m3 to project what it may weigh, but that's still adding more noise and inaccuracy. id say most cars (if no moonroof and auto) will weigh about 50-75lbs more than the base weight if I had to guess