[chris719]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Ugh, the rear sliders again. Please kill this horrific fad BMW is obsessed with.

BMW and others just buy whatever Brembo's current system is and Brembo works with them to customize it for their application. I believe Mercedes and Audi are using sliding rear calipers now too in a lot of high performance models because Brembo has pushed them in this direction. The reality is that even though it looks ugly, you can see the braking performance is improved in G8x. It helps them be able to use the electronic parking brake, too.

If you think about it, a single piston slider was good enough for E92 M3 front brakes. They weren't the best brakes, but that front caliper was doing a hell of a lot more work than the rears here. Saves weight too.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

I'd hope they will stick with a DCT since they are not going to be giving it AWD and they stated in that last article that this will be the most M vehicle to date, so that should hopefully mean sticking with DCT.

Yeah I don't see any chance that the M2 gets a DCT. ZF8 is just too easy from a supply chain perspective and too good from an objective performance perspective that it wouldn't make sense to appease a couple of us old heads kicking and screaming for DCT.

Plus philosophically speaking, if BMW paired S58 with a DCT, they would then have to answer the question as to why they are keeping the redline low at 7200 when DCT can easily handle the 7600 engine limit. If they raise it on a mass production model like an M2, the M3/4 & X3/4M owners will be up in arms.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by chris719

BMW and others just buy whatever Brembo's current system is and Brembo works with them to customize it for their application. I believe Mercedes and Audi are using sliding rear calipers now too in a lot of high performance models because Brembo has pushed them in this direction. The reality is that even though it looks ugly, you can see the braking performance is improved in G8x. It helps them be able to use the electronic parking brake, too.

If you think about it, a single piston slider was good enough for E92 M3 front brakes. They weren't the best brakes, but that front caliper was doing a hell of a lot more work than the rears here. Saves weight too.

I did watch a DIY to change the rear pads on this new e-brake single piston caliper and it is a bit more of a pain than the rears on cars prior. But yeah, outside of looking kind of strange/funny, it clearly can do the job

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I hope insiders can confirm DCT will not be available at all for future M models, so some like myself can move on to different propositions.

You may as well move on now as it's going to be a ZF8. Porsche or low level Audi or VW's are the last stops for volume DCT's.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

Great to hear that they are working on keeping the M2 the driver's choice of the lineup. Wide fenders, smaller dimensions, normal grills, manual, and the S58 should make a great package.

I think it'll be great, but I question the importance of this weight distribution, personally. It's always felt like an arbitrary statistic. Especially since it matters where the moment is. F/R is way too vague to tell you where that weight is.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

You may as well move on now as it's going to be a ZF8. Porsche or low level Audi or VW's are the last stops for volume DCT's.

Not interested in Audis other than R8 so there is only one way.

I still would appreciate insiders' clarification on DCT availability. They have never been clear about this.

[Mingwan]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

You may as well move on now as it's going to be a ZF8. Porsche or low level Audi or VW's are the last stops for volume DCT's.

Cant forget KIA/Hyundai.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

Cant forget KIA/Hyundai.

Well yeah but I assume the poster may not opt for a Veloster N and I'm not sure I would trust it given class action lawsuit filed against their DCT's.

[zx10guy]

Having had to live with a DCT in my 1'er, I say bury the DCT. So far I've seen nothing but problems with DCTs used in cars that are daily drivers or have to deal with stop and go/slow traffic situations.

If they put out a model that is strictly track focused, then I can see a DCT showing up there. But for a car that will see daily driving in non track situations, no way would I want a DCT.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Having had to live with a DCT in my 1'er, I say bury the DCT. So far I've seen nothing but problems with DCTs used in cars that are daily drivers or have to deal with stop and go/slow traffic situations.

If they put out a model that is strictly track focused, then I can see a DCT showing up there. But for a car that will see daily driving in non track situations, no way would I want a DCT.

The DCT on my M2 is a great transmission. Works much better than the Z8 in my M235i.

But BMW is not using DCTs in any Gxx cars or SUVs.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by DanG

The DCT on my M2 is a great transmission. Works much better than the Z8 in my M235i.

But BMW is not using DCTs in any Gxx cars or SUVs.

And there are quite a few of us 1'er DCT owners that have nothing but problems with our DCTs. I'm going to have my DCT adaptations reset for a third time in an attempt to resolve the jerking, lurching, and major hesitation issues that have some times been down right dangerous. It won't take much searching in the various subforums here to find plenty of members with this issue.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

And there are quite a few of us 1'er DCT owners that have nothing but problems with our DCTs. I'm going to have my DCT adaptations reset for a third time in an attempt to resolve the jerking, lurching, and major hesitation issues that have some times been down right dangerous. It won't take much searching in the various subforums here to find plenty of members with this issue.

M-DCT is not 135i DCT.
If you have drivability issues, it is either you do not know how to drive an automated manual or just not a fan of mechanical nature of it. That's why M product exists for enthusiasts, it is not for everyone. Both my M4 DCT and E92 M3 DCT are very smooth and aggressive on demand. A good chunk of M customers like DCT for its quirks.

Back to the original point, maybe lemetier or SCOTT26 could give us some clarification on M DCT availability for future models.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

M-DCT is not 135i DCT.
If you have drivability issues, it is either you do not know how to drive an automated manual or just not a fan of mechanical nature of it. That's why M product exists for enthusiasts, it is not for everyone. Both my M4 DCT and E92 M3 DCT are very smooth and aggressive on demand. A good chunk of M customers like DCT for its quirks.

Back to the original point, maybe lemetier or SCOTT26 could give us some clarification on M DCT availability for future models.

You don't really need insider clarification. It is extremely obvious there will be no DCT for BMW moving forward.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by chris719

You don't really need insider clarification. It is extremely obvious there will be no DCT for BMW moving forward.

You never know what they'd do for special models, if they want to sell that is.

[brad850csi]

If the M2 has no 4wd option then a 6MT and DCT option might be possible, but yeah I mostly agree that it will be 6MT and ZF8.

Now as for 50/50, it isn't perfect. Ferrari have transaxles to keep a slight rear bias which helps with braking, nimbleness at corner entry and acceleration both in a straight line and at corner exits.

That combined with lower polar moment of inertia (ie keeping everything as close to the centre of the car as possible) will help massively. That's why Audi's are utter shit to drive, they are front heavy and they have a huge pendulum out the front which doesn't want to turn. 911s had the same issue but in reverse, fortunately Porsche is a capable company when it comes to engineering and they make amazing cars now, but that wasn't the case in the earlier ones.

https://www.autonews.com/article/200...t-distribution

Thats just one article but there are plenty of discussions if you do a bit of googling

[kyrix1st]

Which is why 50:50 is desirable for front-engine, rear wheel driven cars because it shifts the weight to the rear as much as possible. You are right that rear weight bias is generally more desirable configuration for maximum performance.

Originally Posted by brad850csi

If the M2 has no 4wd option then a 6MT and DCT option might be possible, but yeah I mostly agree that it will be 6MT and ZF8.

Now as for 50/50, it isn't perfect. Ferrari have transaxles to keep a slight rear bias which helps with braking, nimbleness at corner entry and acceleration both in a straight line and at corner exits.

That combined with lower polar moment of inertia (ie keeping everything as close to the centre of the car as possible) will help massively. That's why Audi's are utter shit to drive, they are front heavy and they have a huge pendulum out the front which doesn't want to turn. 911s had the same issue but in reverse, fortunately Porsche is a capable company when it comes to engineering and they make amazing cars now, but that wasn't the case in the earlier ones.

https://www.autonews.com/article/200...t-distribution

Thats just one article but there are plenty of discussions if you do a bit of googling

[chris719]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Which is why 50:50 is desirable for front-engine, rear wheel driven cars because it shifts the weight to the rear as much as possible. You are right that rear weight bias is generally more desirable configuration for maximum performance.

Mostly agree, I think you could do better than 50/50 even for front-engine RWD, but it's not easy to achieve I'm sure. I am always wary of the significance of the numbers though. It matters where that weight is, more than just a crude F/R. Audi could build a 50/50 car but with the front center of mass mostly hanging over the axle and it would be terrible. I'm not sure that 53/47 or something like that means the car is worse if the compromises are worth it.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

I'd hope they will stick with a DCT since they are not going to be giving it AWD and they stated in that last article that this will be the most M vehicle to date, so that should hopefully mean sticking with DCT.

G87 M2 gearbox choice will 99.99% be the one the G80 M3 / G82 M4:

• LS58 6-speed manual gearbox;
• M8HP76 M 8-speed auto gearbox (aka "ZF8" | ZF = Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen = Cogwheel Factory Friedrichshafen).

M-DCT (made by Magna PT, formerly known as "Getrag" | "PT" = powertrain | "Getr" refers to "Getriebe" = transmission) is discontinued from July 2021 onwards.

ZF and Magna PT (Getrag) are competitors.

M-DCT (more pictures here):




ZF8HP70 (the G80/G82 feature the ZF8HP76 variant):


LS58 6-speed manual gearbox (G80/G82):

[Artemis]

One of the advantages of the G87 M2 (S58 engine) over the F87 M2 (N55/S55 engine) for the European market:

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Another Euro-specific bit of good news: S58 will be EU7 compliant.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Artemis

One of the advantages of the G87 M2 (S58 engine) over the F87 M2 (N55/S55 engine) for the European market:

So EU7 compliance means that they can continue production for the Eurozone past 2025?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

So EU7 compliance means that they can continue production for the Eurozone past 2025?

The thing is, adoption of EURO 7 ("post Euro-6/VI" / "Euro 7/VII") by the European Commission is planned for later this year (Q4) (see here).

Nothing's final yet as we speak, except for the fact that existing European vehicle emissions standards will be further tightened within the EU.

Possibly, EURO 7 will be the last port for vehicle internal combustion engines production within the EU. That does not mean that ICE will magically vanish. It's just a matter that manufacturers are required to comply, otherwise their new cars won't get homologated, once EURO 7 takes force (likely 2025). And then again there are all the existing cars featuring ICE. Expect more state and city bans based on former EURO categories, as time goes by.

[SCOTT26]

Hypthetically or realistically? No DCT for M2.