[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by DanG

The DCT on my M2 is a great transmission. Works much better than the Z8 in my M235i.

But BMW is not using DCTs in any Gxx cars or SUVs.

And there are quite a few of us 1'er DCT owners that have nothing but problems with our DCTs. I'm going to have my DCT adaptations reset for a third time in an attempt to resolve the jerking, lurching, and major hesitation issues that have some times been down right dangerous. It won't take much searching in the various subforums here to find plenty of members with this issue.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

And there are quite a few of us 1'er DCT owners that have nothing but problems with our DCTs. I'm going to have my DCT adaptations reset for a third time in an attempt to resolve the jerking, lurching, and major hesitation issues that have some times been down right dangerous. It won't take much searching in the various subforums here to find plenty of members with this issue.

M-DCT is not 135i DCT.
If you have drivability issues, it is either you do not know how to drive an automated manual or just not a fan of mechanical nature of it. That's why M product exists for enthusiasts, it is not for everyone. Both my M4 DCT and E92 M3 DCT are very smooth and aggressive on demand. A good chunk of M customers like DCT for its quirks.

Back to the original point, maybe lemetier or SCOTT26 could give us some clarification on M DCT availability for future models.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

M-DCT is not 135i DCT.
If you have drivability issues, it is either you do not know how to drive an automated manual or just not a fan of mechanical nature of it. That's why M product exists for enthusiasts, it is not for everyone. Both my M4 DCT and E92 M3 DCT are very smooth and aggressive on demand. A good chunk of M customers like DCT for its quirks.

Back to the original point, maybe lemetier or SCOTT26 could give us some clarification on M DCT availability for future models.

You don't really need insider clarification. It is extremely obvious there will be no DCT for BMW moving forward.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by chris719

You don't really need insider clarification. It is extremely obvious there will be no DCT for BMW moving forward.

You never know what they'd do for special models, if they want to sell that is.

[brad850csi]

If the M2 has no 4wd option then a 6MT and DCT option might be possible, but yeah I mostly agree that it will be 6MT and ZF8.

Now as for 50/50, it isn't perfect. Ferrari have transaxles to keep a slight rear bias which helps with braking, nimbleness at corner entry and acceleration both in a straight line and at corner exits.

That combined with lower polar moment of inertia (ie keeping everything as close to the centre of the car as possible) will help massively. That's why Audi's are utter shit to drive, they are front heavy and they have a huge pendulum out the front which doesn't want to turn. 911s had the same issue but in reverse, fortunately Porsche is a capable company when it comes to engineering and they make amazing cars now, but that wasn't the case in the earlier ones.

https://www.autonews.com/article/200...t-distribution

Thats just one article but there are plenty of discussions if you do a bit of googling

[kyrix1st]

Which is why 50:50 is desirable for front-engine, rear wheel driven cars because it shifts the weight to the rear as much as possible. You are right that rear weight bias is generally more desirable configuration for maximum performance.

Originally Posted by brad850csi

If the M2 has no 4wd option then a 6MT and DCT option might be possible, but yeah I mostly agree that it will be 6MT and ZF8.

Now as for 50/50, it isn't perfect. Ferrari have transaxles to keep a slight rear bias which helps with braking, nimbleness at corner entry and acceleration both in a straight line and at corner exits.

That combined with lower polar moment of inertia (ie keeping everything as close to the centre of the car as possible) will help massively. That's why Audi's are utter shit to drive, they are front heavy and they have a huge pendulum out the front which doesn't want to turn. 911s had the same issue but in reverse, fortunately Porsche is a capable company when it comes to engineering and they make amazing cars now, but that wasn't the case in the earlier ones.

https://www.autonews.com/article/200...t-distribution

Thats just one article but there are plenty of discussions if you do a bit of googling

[chris719]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Which is why 50:50 is desirable for front-engine, rear wheel driven cars because it shifts the weight to the rear as much as possible. You are right that rear weight bias is generally more desirable configuration for maximum performance.

Mostly agree, I think you could do better than 50/50 even for front-engine RWD, but it's not easy to achieve I'm sure. I am always wary of the significance of the numbers though. It matters where that weight is, more than just a crude F/R. Audi could build a 50/50 car but with the front center of mass mostly hanging over the axle and it would be terrible. I'm not sure that 53/47 or something like that means the car is worse if the compromises are worth it.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

I'd hope they will stick with a DCT since they are not going to be giving it AWD and they stated in that last article that this will be the most M vehicle to date, so that should hopefully mean sticking with DCT.

G87 M2 gearbox choice will 99.99% be the one the G80 M3 / G82 M4:

• LS58 6-speed manual gearbox;
• M8HP76 M 8-speed auto gearbox (aka "ZF8" | ZF = Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen = Cogwheel Factory Friedrichshafen).

M-DCT (made by Magna PT, formerly known as "Getrag" | "PT" = powertrain | "Getr" refers to "Getriebe" = transmission) is discontinued from July 2021 onwards.

ZF and Magna PT (Getrag) are competitors.

M-DCT (more pictures here):




ZF8HP70 (the G80/G82 feature the ZF8HP76 variant):


LS58 6-speed manual gearbox (G80/G82):

[Artemis]

One of the advantages of the G87 M2 (S58 engine) over the F87 M2 (N55/S55 engine) for the European market:

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Another Euro-specific bit of good news: S58 will be EU7 compliant.

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Artemis

One of the advantages of the G87 M2 (S58 engine) over the F87 M2 (N55/S55 engine) for the European market:

So EU7 compliance means that they can continue production for the Eurozone past 2025?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

So EU7 compliance means that they can continue production for the Eurozone past 2025?

The thing is, adoption of EURO 7 ("post Euro-6/VI" / "Euro 7/VII") by the European Commission is planned for later this year (Q4) (see here).

Nothing's final yet as we speak, except for the fact that existing European vehicle emissions standards will be further tightened within the EU.

Possibly, EURO 7 will be the last port for vehicle internal combustion engines production within the EU. That does not mean that ICE will magically vanish. It's just a matter that manufacturers are required to comply, otherwise their new cars won't get homologated, once EURO 7 takes force (likely 2025). And then again there are all the existing cars featuring ICE. Expect more state and city bans based on former EURO categories, as time goes by.

[SCOTT26]

Hypthetically or realistically? No DCT for M2.

[BMWGirlFL]

[Colinv6]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

Attachment 2589495

Attachment 2589496

Looking fantastic so far. Can’t wait to see the front end, however after the monstrosity that is the new M3/4, I think the G87 could be the real “new M3”


Going to be my next car for sure.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Colinv6

Looking fantastic so far. Can’t wait to see the front end, however after the monstrosity that is the new M3/4, I think the G87 could be the real “new M3”


Going to be my next car for sure.

To add to E92 M3 right?

High chance this will be my ICE end game.

[Colinv6]

Originally Posted by W///

To add to E92 M3 right?

High chance this will be my ICE end game.

Absolutely! That baby is going nowhere The M2 will replace the wife’s M140i hatchback.

I can only hope to spec CCB’s as I really miss them from my M4CS.

[bmwloverm2]

Looking at the latest camo car spotted, I can't see the new "idrive 8" long screen raised, seems like the traditional infotainment etc.

I haven't followed much in which models iDrive 8 will be present, i expect it in the i4 of course... but what about the upcoming series2 + upcoming M2?

Is there any information leaked about if they will bring the current Series 3, Series 4 infotainment or if it will be the long panel idrive 8 ?

Thanks!

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by bmwloverm2

Looking at the latest camo car spotted, I can't see the new "idrive 8" long screen raised, seems like the traditional infotainment etc.

I haven't followed much in which models iDrive 8 will be present, i expect it in the i4 of course... but what about the upcoming series2 + upcoming M2?

Is there any information leaked about if they will bring the current Series 3, Series 4 infotainment or if it will be the long panel idrive 8 ?

The 2er coupe will get the ID7 / current 3er infotainment initially, but get upgraded to the ID8 one after a year or so in 8/2022. The M2 will get the ID8 one from the start (cause it launches in late 2022).

In any case, the above photo looks like an ID8 wide screen to me, just not very rounded like on the i4? Doesn't look like a 3er/ID7 screen to me at least. Nobody said the screen would be identical everywhere.

Finally, what the test mules have as infotainment at this point of development is not really a conclusive hint at what will show up in the production car.

[quenotte]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Yeah I don't see any chance that the M2 gets a DCT. ZF8 is just too easy from a supply chain perspective and too good from an objective performance perspective that it wouldn't make sense to appease a couple of us old heads kicking and screaming for DCT.

Plus philosophically speaking, if BMW paired S58 with a DCT, they would then have to answer the question as to why they are keeping the redline low at 7200 when DCT can easily handle the 7600 engine limit. If they raise it on a mass production model like an M2, the M3/4 & X3/4M owners will be up in arms.

7200 is ZF8 max rpm...

DKG was able to handle a lot more paired with S65 engine.

[BMWGirlFL]

AutoCar Claims:

The second-generation BMW M2 will have even stronger performance and more versatility than the well-received current model when it reaches UK showrooms by the end of 2022, according to insiders.

The new version of M division’s smallest model is based on the upcoming third-generation 2 Series Coupé, which has been comprehensively re-engineered with a revised line-up of longitudinally mounted engines, a new eight-speed automatic gearbox, an updated platform, a significantly stiffer body structure and more advanced electronic architecture.

The changes provide the new, G87-generation M2 with much closer engineering ties to other M models than today’s M2 has. M division insiders say this will enable the new M2 to offer a further step up in performance while helping it to retain a reputation for dynamic excellence through the sharing of key components.

An internal source told Autocar: “It’s more powerful, with greater torque, but sharper, too. It’s still puristic, a driver’s car, but with a broader spread of characteristics, a greater divide between comfort and sport, than what we’ve seen up to now.”

Central to the model-specific changes for the upcoming Porsche Cayman GTS rival is the arrival of BMW M’s S58 engine. The twin-turbocharged 3.0-litre six-cylinder unit was introduced on the X3 M and X4 M, and more recently deployed in the new M3 and M4. It will replace the existing M2’s long-running N55 unit, introduced in 2009, as well as the S55 engine used by the more potent M2 Competition and M2 CS.

Key elements of the S58 engine include a newly designed crankcase, a longer stroke, a reworked cylinder head and a more efficient induction system, which uses two mono-scroll turbochargers in place of the single turbocharger in the engine it replaces. As with the older S55 engine, it also gets a petrol particulate filter.

Autocar understands the new inline powerplant, which will be updated to meet Euro 7 emission regulations during the M2’s planned seven-year life cycle, will be offered in two states of tune in a move mirroring that of the new M3 and M4 – both with a 7200rpm redline – although only the higher-output Competition car is likely to be available in the UK.

Details remain under wraps more than a year before its planned introduction but standard M2 models are expected to receive up to 410bhp, with the successor to today’s M2 Competition set to offer up to 430bhp, just 50bhp short of the standard M3 and M4. The rise in power is claimed to be accompanied by a moderate lift in torque. Again, nothing is official but BMW M sources have revealed to Autocar that the new M2 could have as much as 428lb ft – 22lb ft more than the existing M2 Competition and M2 CS.

BMW will offer the new M2 with the choice of either a standard six-speed manual or a new eight-speed torque-converter automatic with steering wheel-mounted shift paddles. The auto replaces the current seven-speed dual-clutch item, which will no longer be available on the M2.

Both the standard and Competition models will have rear-wheel drive with an electronically controlled M differential. Although four-wheel drive is now offered on the car’s M3 and M4 siblings, an xDrive M2 is not planned.

The styling of the new M2 is closely related to that of the upcoming M240i xDrive. Distinguishing elements include a new-look front end with a lower and wider kidney grille than that seen on today’s M2 Competition. Set within a deep front bumper, it goes without traditional fixed vertical louvres, adopting electronically operated active elements that open and close to suit the cooling and heating demands of the new engine.

The headlights, LED as standard, also adopt a more angular design and will be offered with optional laser projectors, with dynamic indicators housed within the front lenses.

The bonnet adopts a prominent power dome and the wheel arches have been enlarged to accommodate wheels of up to 20in. A more pronounced shoulder line runs back to form wider haunches below the rear side windows. The windscreen and rear window are also more heavily raked than on the first-generation M2, giving it an altogether sleeker appearance.

In keeping with more recent M models, the tail-lights have a heavily structured design with OLED graphics while the boot slopes down towards the rear and receives a larger lip spoiler than today’s model for added downforce. A wider diffuser is also integrated into the bottom of the rear bumper.

An optional carbonfibre package will allow prospective customers to specify the new car with various carbonfibre elements, including the roof and door mirrors, although the M2 Competition is set to get a carbonfibre roof as standard.

The new coupé has grown in size, albeit only moderately over today’s 4468mm-long, 1984mm-wide and 1410mm-tall M2 Competition. Along with the increase in dimensions, the wheelbase has been extended by 51mm, at 2744mm, and the tracks have been widened at the front and rear. Crucially, the new M2 will match the 50:50 weight distribution of the less powerful M240i.

Autocar has been told the CLAR platform adopted by the new 2 Series provides a 40% increase in body rigidity compared with the structure used by the old model. The new M2 will add further rigidity with its own unique front suspension dome brace strut and a new brace integrated within the rear suspension.

Underpinning the new M2 is a heavily reworked MacPherson strut front and multi-link rear suspension. Among the benefits of the new set-up cited by BMW M engineers is its ability to support increased front camber. It will be available with the choice of either lift-related or variable dampers.

In a significant shift in M division operations, the next M2 will be manufactured alongside other 2 Series models at BMW’s newly established factory in San Luis Potosí, Mexico. Today’s M2 is produced exclusively at BMW’s Leipzig plant in Germany. Details about the sourcing of key components, including the S58 engine, have yet to be made official, although insiders suggest it will continue to be manufactured at BMW’s Munich engine plant.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...er-and-sleeker

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

AutoCar Claims:



https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...er-and-sleeker

You find the most detailed information...thanks.

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by TAZ007

You find the most detailed information...thanks.

Hmm she also just found my next car to replace my F80!