[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by natedog7700

Fair enough. We agree to disagree. They already banned street racing and any modifications to your car so it really cant be taken away if there is nothing there to take. Your point sounds irrelevant to me. You cant compare a paintball hobby to vehicle's that people need to get from point A to B.

Where has modding your car become illegal? All points that disagree with the way you think are obviously irrelevant to you. Does it seem strange to you that in a high-performance car forum, you are the only one arguing that there is not a problem with street racing?

The videos like the one you posted should be illegal because they promote an illegal activity and flaunt it as being cool.

[///M Ryder]

Originally Posted by vsix

Here is food for thoughts:

Whatabout this:

The fact that multiple stangs and as mentioned the M4 had the exact same breakout behavior, makes me believe the real trouble maker could be the street compound, years of traffic stress that caused the street to lean onto one side....I think it's not an drivers issue, it really could be the compound, out of what the particular road was made...

This should be investigated!!!!

You sir have had one too many drinks ..........Phil

[Delta0311]

Natedog I get some of what you are saying. Living cautiously all the time is not really living. You have to take some risk to progress in life. But stupid risks win you stupid prizes. Successful people take calculated risks. You look at the risk to reward ratio and if the reward outweighs the risk then go for it. Of course you also have to have the necessary skill set before you take the risk. Street racing is a stupid risk with zero reward. Bragging rights is not worth the massive financial risk that you are taking. I'm not even talking about crashing here, just getting busted for racing will cost you a pretty penny.

[RunFlatOut]

There's another way of looking at this. Anyone care to make a case for legalizing street racing?

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by RunFlatOut

There's another way of looking at this. Anyone care to make a case for legalizing street racing?

It will happen the day after the apocalypse. At that point feel free to go balls out.

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Natedog I get some of what you are saying. Living cautiously all the time is not really living. You have to take some risk to progress in life. But stupid risks win you stupid prizes. Successful people take calculated risks. You look at the risk to reward ratio and if the reward outweighs the risk then go for it. Of course you also have to have the necessary skill set before you take the risk. Street racing is a stupid risk with zero reward. Bragging rights is not worth the massive financial risk that you are taking. I'm not even talking about crashing here, just getting busted for racing will cost you a pretty penny.

Already did back in high school. Shun me for going 160, but the crown vic couldn't pace me so he wrote me down for 115 (no radar used, no red/blues until I slowed down). $1,200 worth of tickets, and 12 points (double to 24) but thanks to my lawyer it was pretty much dropped all together. Yeah, you could say I have a soft spot for fast cars and ill continue to modify them and enjoy them like most others do. Call me stupid, but I'm done with this convo! Its gone to far lol

[Maynard]

I think Natedog is missing the concept of the innocent bystander - that's the problem with street racing, not how safe it can be. Even somebody with the godlike prowess that he has will make mistakes. In a race, everybody involved has signed up for the risk, even the guy in the stands. It is immoral to roll the dice with somebody else's life like this, even if you think you have great odds.

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Where has modding your car become illegal? All points that disagree with the way you think are obviously irrelevant to you. Does it seem strange to you that in a high-performance car forum, you are the only one arguing that there is not a problem with street racing?

The videos like the one you posted should be illegal because they promote an illegal activity and flaunt it as being cool.

I'm not saying every mod is illegal, but loud exhaust or any exhaust work for that matter is highly illegal especially to defeat emissions. R compound or slick's, nitrous, exhaust tips that stick out past the bumper, tons of cosmetics I could go on and on about but you get the point. And to answer your other argument, it seems the people that do agree with me are not stepping in. If your wondering why, its probably because no one wants in on this sh!t fest. Duh smart one lol

[RunFlatOut]

I have no doubt there are others who have no problem with not giving a shit about anyone else and always ready to risk other people's lives just for kicks.

[Jaghave]

Originally Posted by jaye944

seriously charge them with Murder

You won't get a conviction with murder as they had no intent your best bet would be manslaughter.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by natedog7700

Fair enough. We agree to disagree. They already banned street racing and any modifications to your car so it really cant be taken away if there is nothing there to take. Your point sounds irrelevant to me. You cant compare a paintball hobby to vehicle's that people need to get from point A to B.

Ahh, but none of us are just commuters are we? We get much more from our cars than just something to ride in A to B. It would be trivial for the .gov to impose restrictions that would make our cars unaffordable to run in the form of extra taxes for any ponies over X, taxes tied to fuel consumption, extra taxes on premium fuel, etc. A huge chunk of the population wouldn't really be effected because their econoboxes aren't subject to any of it, so you know they wouldn't care.

We can discourage all that from happening by demonstrating on a daily basis that we don't need it. Rest assured though, we get enough dead kids on the sidewalk and it will happen.

Originally Posted by natedog7700

And to answer your other argument, it seems the people that do agree with me are not stepping in. If your wondering why, its probably because no one wants in on this sh!t fest. Duh smart one lol

You might be right. Like Abe said "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by fravel

Ahh, but none of us are just commuters are we? We get much more from our cars than just something to ride in A to B. It would be trivial for the .gov to impose restrictions that would make our cars unaffordable to run in the form of extra taxes for any ponies over X, taxes tied to fuel consumption, extra taxes on premium fuel, etc. A huge chunk of the population wouldn't really be effected because their econoboxes aren't subject to any of it, so you know they wouldn't care.

We can discourage all that from happening by demonstrating on a daily basis that we don't need it. Rest assured though, we get enough dead kids on the sidewalk and it will happen.



You might be right. Like Abe said "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

The government would impose restrictions on what exactly? You say 93 gas? Psh, run 87 or E85, cars will still be fast (on 87) but since 93 is available, thats what we run obviously. There is no way to keep tabs on the horsepower you run besides stock output (which is 300hp in my case). I get 20's for MPG which is very respectable, so your point is again, invalid. The government hates street racing, and they're already going above and beyond to catch them these days. Thats the problem, they just cant stop it all together even with the current restrictions these days. Trust me, if they could, they would!
Honestly Fravel, you seem like a smart guy, but we clearly dont see eye to eye so lets agree to disgree and call it a day lol this is all non sense really.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by natedog7700

OP, I'm highly against people saying anything along the lines of "street racing is bad, don't do it" . Kind of like the whole fire arms argument. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. More specifically while drag racing, bad judgement kills people. When behind the wheel of not only high HP cars, but any car in general while racing or not, you must make a basic judgment call before initiating any kind of race (I do this all the time). Few main questions to ask yourself: Are there any driveways OR intersections coming up within the next 1/4 mile or so? How about sidewalks/pedestrians? And last but not least, how many cars are ahead/behind you within the next 1320 ft or so. This is a simple check off list anyone can stand by and IMO greatly reduce the chance of problems that might occur. Street racing doesn't kill per say, its more so the people who lack self control, good judgement, and over estimate their limits while driving. The government likes to brainwash everyone and say its like the worst thing in the world but I would never agree to such non sense. Some people cant handle it and this is what ruins it for everyone else.

I don't condone street racing but there's sometimes a friendly run now and then in the middle of no where.

I think people need to use their brain as to where and when that can be safe. Sadly, lots of people get into the adrenaline and don't use their brain. They need to think about other people, not just themselves. The more accidents like this happen, the more the govt will crack down on fast cars... it's bad for enthusiasts.

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by Z K

I don't condone street racing but there's sometimes a friendly run now and then in the middle of no where.

I think people need to use their brain as to where and when that can be safe. Sadly, lots of people get into the adrenaline and don't use their brain. They need to think about other people, not just themselves. The more accidents like this happen, the more the govt will crack down on fast cars... it's bad for enthusiasts.

Finally someone who understands!

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

Why are they racing at 3pm.

Why are they racing on a public road with other traffic and pedestrians around?

[iEuropa]

1. Charge them with manslaughter.
2. Don't street race.
3. If you're going over the speed limit be responsible and control the car smoothly.

I dare anyone with a 300whp car to tell me that they've never planted the gas pedal on a public road. We buy fast cars, we get big tickets, we pay big penalties. No one buys a fast car to drive slow 100% of the time. It's just a matter of being responsible about it. Taking a pull through second gear on an on ramp to an 80mph highway is fine... but doing that anywhere in the DMV is irresponsible - far too much traffic for that.


As for the gun analogy. (Bad at mobile no quote). You don't shoot guns on your property in the DMV, you go to a range . But at my best friends property in VW, we have 1200 private acres. So we shoot off the front porch god dammit.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by natedog7700

The government would impose restrictions on what exactly? You say 93 gas? Psh, run 87 or E85, cars will still be fast (on 87) but since 93 is available, thats what we run obviously. There is no way to keep tabs on the horsepower you run besides stock output (which is 300hp in my case). I get 20's for MPG which is very respectable, so your point is again, invalid. The government hates street racing, and they're already going above and beyond to catch them these days. Thats the problem, they just cant stop it all together even with the current restrictions these days. Trust me, if they could, they would!
Honestly Fravel, you seem like a smart guy, but we clearly dont see eye to eye so lets agree to disgree and call it a day lol this is all non sense really.

Damn better put street racers in a protected class now since they are being discriminated against..

[schoy]

Originally Posted by Jaghave

You won't get a conviction with murder as they had no intent your best bet would be manslaughter.

Nope. Street racing is a 3rd Degree Felony in TX if it results in bodily injury. TX also has a felony murder statute, which allows prosecution for murder if commission of a felony results in death. So, yes, I would expect murder to be on the table here.

[schoy]

Natedog, I will take a more measured attempt (than others) to explain why street racing should be illegal. In many inherently-risky endeavors that humans undertake, the risk-adjusted cost of the behavior (to oneself and to the public) is fairly easy to determine ahead of time. Like people at a baseball game who might get hit by a baseball. Or backyard wrestling resulting injury. Furthermore, the cost of the behavior can usually be borne by the individual at fault, who will likely have the means to make the victim whole (at least financially).

However, there is a certain class of human pursuits where the risk of loss is so potentially high that the government needs to step in regulate. Take warnings on pill bottles. And anti-competitive monopolies. And street-racing.

First, the vast majority of street-racing on public roads are usually performed with incomplete information. What cars are ahead? What pedestrians are vulnerable? Street-racers can't process this information at the time because it's not knowable and constantly changing.

Second, the "red mist" during street-racing (the need to win) results in impaired judgment as the race progresses and is probably neurologically similar to a drug addict on a high, which impairs judgment even further.

Finally, the speeds that street-racing occur will typically result in significant bodily injury, death or property damage. Who will make the victim whole? The insurance company won't. This leaves poor ol' Jim-Bob to foot the entire judgment, which he likely won't be able to and will just declare bankruptcy.

Hence we have a situation where extremely risky behavior isn't being properly mitigated by market forces; therefore, the need for the government to step in and criminalize the behavior.

Originally Posted by natedog7700

OP, I'm highly against people saying anything along the lines of "street racing is bad, don't do it" . Kind of like the whole fire arms argument. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. More specifically while drag racing, bad judgement kills people. When behind the wheel of not only high HP cars, but any car in general while racing or not, you must make a basic judgment call before initiating any kind of race (I do this all the time). Few main questions to ask yourself: Are there any driveways OR intersections coming up within the next 1/4 mile or so? How about sidewalks/pedestrians? And last but not least, how many cars are ahead/behind you within the next 1320 ft or so. This is a simple check off list anyone can stand by and IMO greatly reduce the chance of problems that might occur. Street racing doesn't kill per say, its more so the people who lack self control, good judgement, and over estimate their limits while driving. The government likes to brainwash everyone and say its like the worst thing in the world but I would never agree to such non sense. Some people cant handle it and this is what ruins it for everyone else.

[goj]

Originally Posted by natedog7700

OP, I'm highly against people saying anything along the lines of "street racing is bad, don't do it" . Kind of like the whole fire arms argument. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. More specifically while drag racing, bad judgement kills people. When behind the wheel of not only high HP cars, but any car in general while racing or not, you must make a basic judgment call before initiating any kind of race (I do this all the time). Few main questions to ask yourself: Are there any driveways OR intersections coming up within the next 1/4 mile or so? How about sidewalks/pedestrians? And last but not least, how many cars are ahead/behind you within the next 1320 ft or so. This is a simple check off list anyone can stand by and IMO greatly reduce the chance of problems that might occur. Street racing doesn't kill per say, its more so the people who lack self control, good judgement, and over estimate their limits while driving. The government likes to brainwash everyone and say its like the worst thing in the world but I would never agree to such non sense. Some people cant handle it and this is what ruins it for everyone else.

No, just no. Go to a track or autoX event.
I have fun on my own while driving never against other people in public. It's definitely not worth any fines, tickets or in this case lives

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by goj

No, just no. Go to a track or autoX event.
I have fun on my own while driving never against other people in public. It's definitely not worth any fines, tickets or in this case lives

I was about to say the same thing. It's funny how people glamorize activities like this. Yet I never see any of these guys that say they have the "skills" to street race "safely" ever on the track.

Natedog, how about you share your address with us so we can set up a new racing event with the underground racing scene in your neighborhood? We'll even honor you by calling it the Natedog TT.

[F30lolz]

Sadly, two people lost their lives early Sunday morning here in Miami. The occupants in the BMW that was speeding/racing are in the hospital, one stable and the other critical. The vehicle they hit, a Honda CRV, both occupants died.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2016/11/06...s-in-hospital/