[m3number86]

Originally Posted by m2ss

That's exactly what I thought until I saw two earlier today at my dealer.

To me color made all the difference, the BSM looked perfect (all came together making it properly aggressive) , the BG not as much.

Just my 2 cents...

The new Ms all look decent or as good as itll get in black bc it hides all the atrocities. Even the xm passes in black

[sq86]

Originally Posted by m3number86

The new Ms all look decent or as good as itll get in black bc it hides all the atrocities. Even the xm passes in black

Not the Red Label... put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by DSTR

Equals zero potential of a better made machine lol.

No one cares if your German car is 'made in Germany' overall. At least not here in Germany lol.

Im quite pleased to see my M2 when it arrives from Mexico!

My 22 M240i is superb - so to Mexico I SAY GRACIAS!!

To you - I say GROW UP LOL!

No one but me.

Originally Posted by Albator_IIII

Germany has been at the top for so long until the current trends on economics and environment policies of the Euro zone. Still good especially in design and engineering. However, It can only go in one direction: down.

Mexico is hungry. It's regular citizen are extremely hard working and their trend is up.

The world is changing. Keep up with it.

I know they are...but that's beside the point. I'm not going for a Swiss watch made in Austria, Italian leather made in Spain, or French wine from Portugal. I'll stay in my sandbox even if it matters only to me. WBS or P-car!

[dezzracer]

I liked it from the start and I’m an old guy. Fast and furious vibe?. Um… ok. I still liked it. Rear end could use a little work maybe.

[m3number86]

Originally Posted by sq86

Not the Red Label... put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.

I just looked it up. My goodness they look like pig snouts up front lol

[Saphirschwarz]

Well u can be ugly and still make your predecessor look old and mild. Anyway i agree it must be seen IRL to really judge .

[NathObeaN]

Like others my main issues aren’t the looks. Yes, I don’t think it’s as attractive as the F87 but I do think an LCI + some modifications could easily ‘fix’ it, (tacked on screens included). It’s not irreversibly terrible.

My issues, are the non-subjective elements:

1. The car is significantly heavier, fact.
2. The ZF is slower and less engaging than the DCT, fact.
3. The manual is still notchy/rubbery, fact.
4. The steering has less feedback, fact.
5. It has an electronic handbrake, no more handbrake turns/reduced rear braking, fact.
6. The car is significantly more expensive, fact.

These are my primary issues (5 & 6 I can deal with over time). But when you have the choice over a rubbery manual or a sluggish ZF paired with an overweight car… that isn’t something I can ‘get over’ when there are better options out there. It doesn’t matter how many times reviewers criticise BMW’s manual, they keep making them. Why? Because people keep saying ‘but it’s a manual! Don’t complain’ - no, it’s crap. BMW need to be held accountable for their poor decisions so that we, the fans, get what we actually want. They can do better. I vote with my wallet.

I would love the G87 to remedy these as honestly, I would love to ‘upgrade’. They appear to have fixed other things I don’t like about my F87 - hopping differential, too small contact patch, S55 crank hub weakness etc.

I’ve seen what else BMW can do. I know they could easily turn this from a ‘good’ car to a ‘great’ car. That’s what pains me. But, I’m a fan. I’ll stick it out as long as I can in hope they do just that.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by horan116

This is straight copium. You guys trying to justify your addiction to commercialism. The design element of this car are objectively bad in virtually all segments.

This is pontification. Aesthetic design is subjective by nature, and aesthetics are largely influenced by association. If an individual has a positive emotional connection to a certain characteristic of the design, they are more likely to find it beautiful than someone who does not.

Hence the saying “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”.

Copium is assigning objective truth to one’s own subjective opinion as a result of being unable to accept that their opinion is not as important and accepted as they think it should be.

[D22M2]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

Like others my main issues aren’t the looks. Yes, I don’t think it’s as attractive as the F87 but I do think an LCI + some modifications could easily ‘fix’ it, (tacked on screens included). It’s not irreversibly terrible.

My issues, are the non-subjective elements:

1. The car is significantly heavier, fact.
2. The ZF is slower and less engaging than the DCT, fact.
3. The manual is still notchy/rubbery, fact.
4. The steering has less feedback, fact.
5. It has an electronic handbrake, no more handbrake turns/reduced rear braking, fact.
6. The car is significantly more expensive, fact.

These are my primary issues (5 & 6 I can deal with over time). But when you have the choice over a rubbery manual or a sluggish ZF paired with an overweight car… that isn’t something I can ‘get over’ when there are better options out there. It doesn’t matter how many times reviewers criticise BMW’s manual, they keep making them. Why? Because people keep saying ‘but it’s a manual! Don’t complain’ - no, it’s crap. BMW need to be held accountable for their poor decisions so that we, the fans, get what we actually want. They can do better. I vote with my wallet.

I would love the G87 to remedy these as honestly, I would love to ‘upgrade’. They appear to have fixed other things I don’t like about my F87 - hopping differential, too small contact patch, S55 crank hub weakness etc.

I’ve seen what else BMW can do. I know they could easily turn this from a ‘good’ car to a ‘great’ car. That’s what pains me. But, I’m a fan. I’ll stick it out as long as I can in hope they do just that.

Yeah … nope. Electric is the way of the future for BMW. Enjoy these badass ICE M’s while you can.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

My issues, are the non-subjective elements:

1. The car is significantly heavier, fact.
2. The ZF is slower and less engaging than the DCT, fact.
3. The manual is still notchy/rubbery, fact.
4. The steering has less feedback, fact.
5. It has an electronic handbrake, no more handbrake turns/reduced rear braking, fact.
6. The car is significantly more expensive, fact.

I agree these are all objectively true except #2 and #4.

For #2, it's *probably* true, but I don't think we have any head to head examples that can prove it. Maybe someone could extrapolate from an M4 comparison, dunno.

For #4, I don't think that's been quantified, nor have reviewers been unanimous. So definitely not a fact yet.

And while #6 is technically true, it doesn't factor inflation nor the fact that this car has a lot more stuff in it. So I'm not sure why it matters? I don't think BMW is price gouging, the M2 is a pretty good price for what it is offering.

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

that isn’t something I can ‘get over’ when there are better options out there

Now this is interesting. What better options are out there? Luxury MT sports coupe with 4 seats, trunk, daily driver and weekend track-capable, advanced tech, upgraded interior, for about $63K? Not the Cayman, the RS3, or the CLA45. The CT4-V BW is pretty close. Are there options I'm forgetting, other than buying used cars?

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I agree these are all objectively true except #2 and #4.

For #2, it's *probably* true, but I don't think we have any head to head examples that can prove it. Maybe someone could extrapolate from an M4 comparison, dunno.

For #4, I don't think that's been quantified, nor have reviewers been unanimous. So definitely not a fact yet.

And while #6 is technically true, it doesn't factor inflation nor the fact that this car has a lot more stuff in it. So I'm not sure why it matters? I don't think BMW is price gouging, the M2 is a pretty good price for what it is offering.


Now this is interesting. What better options are out there? Luxury MT sports coupe with 4 seats, trunk, daily driver and weekend track-capable, advanced tech, upgraded interior, for about $63K? Not the Cayman, the RS3, or the CLA45. The CT4-V BW is pretty close. Are there options I'm forgetting, other than buying used cars?

The new Mustang GT and Dark Horse that's about to hit the streets this summer will be strong competitors.

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Now this is interesting. What better options are out there? Luxury MT sports coupe with 4 seats, trunk, daily driver and weekend track-capable, advanced tech, upgraded interior, for about $63K? Not the Cayman, the RS3, or the CLA45. The CT4-V BW is pretty close. Are there options I'm forgetting, other than buying used cars?

It depends what you’re after I guess. I see the M2 as a lightweight M4 which should be all about fun and light track duty. As such, I compare it to a Toyota Supra, Lotus Emria, Cayman etc. all those cars have less weight, better transmission etc.

For #2, it's *probably* true, but I don't think we have any head to head examples that can prove it. Maybe someone could extrapolate from an M4 comparison, dunno

From first-hand experience - I’ve driven my M2C on track a lot + I’ve driven a track-tuned M4 G80 for 30+ mins on track. The ZF, even in its most aggressive setting is much slower. The amount of times I bounced off the limiter because it changed a split second after I pulled the paddle, it was infuriating. I even asked the owner if I was doing something wrong and he admitted it’s just slow so you have to pre-empt the shift by a split second.

No doubt, the ZF is more road-friendly (the DCT is a lurch machine at slow speeds) but on track/spirited driving it’s noticeably slower and less engaging.

[DrKevM5]

Originally Posted by horan116

This is straight copium. You guys trying to justify your addiction to commercialism. The design element of this car are objectively bad in virtually all segments.

“And the truth shall set you free”

[Tarmac]

Both are beautifully executed. The F87 has a classic BMW style that never gets old, the G87 style would look perfect for a hybrid powered car though considering the huge lcd panel, all the tech and its futuristic design. Seems bmw M is moving on a right direction on the M2 line up. Looking forward for the CS version.

[jhall1957]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

In Europe yes not here. I think the OP was refering to the E82 which was available here.

Since i own a 1M i would be curious to speak to somebody who has experience with both the 1M and G87 M2.

I owned a 1M, a OG M2(perf Ed), still own a M2 CS and now a G87. I agree 100% with original posters comments. Loved my 1M and should have kept it but love the CS more. The G87 is incredible and suer nice but also different then the CS in the way I build them and their general feel. Compared to the 1M the new M2 is much better balanced and way more power. If you like drifting and hanging the tail out all the way to work every morning, you will be happy in either especially the 1M. If you want a more balanced ride to work and something that feels and sounds super fast, get the G87. I’ve driven and owned lots of cars/BMW’s specifically and this seems quicker and faster then any M cars(M3, M3,M4,M5) that i’ve owned/driven.

[Tallest]

The litmus test of design - do people say it looks best in black? If yes, design is a failure.

This car has some outstanding design elements like the box flares but it has a pathetic front end, terrible rear bumper and tail lights. As OP says those are soft bits that can be fixed with LCI. I hope they do.

To me, this car has as much beauty to it as 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer WRC that did very poorly but looked radical.
I actually rather liked that car's looks, it was ugly but purposeful.


To me personally, the new M2 gives out the same vibes. Ugly but purposeful.


Basically it looks like a car that was designed soft for road, and then motorsport devision went bonkers on it and added some functional bits to fit bigger radiator, wheel travel, etc. It now looks like it does. It makes me want to see what the production version looks.

The M2 looks like a tarmac racing prototype in a way, and may be thats how I say it looks cool. But its not pretty, OP.

[JustinHEMI]

Copium. LMFAO the only copium is from those that can't get one.

[ChrisM4]

You know what they say about opinions!

That said here’s mine (as a former F87, G82 owner and current G80 owner)

The only colour I’d consider is BSM. It hides the unfinished looking front bumper and softens the angles of the rear bumper.

Having the bottom of the front bumper painted body colour would do a lot to improve the front end

I agree the fenders/sides of the car and hood look good. The overall length and proportion from the side including roof line is also nicer than the F87.

The biggest issue with the car in my opinion is the rear end and especially taillights.

I am looking forward to seeing one in person though.

[sakson]

When you have to write a long comment to justify the design (while basically sounding apologetic), you immediately disqualify your point. Beauty and good looks are simple and obvious. No elaborate explanations/arguments needed.

[Lex Templar]

The G87 looks like an absolute beast to me. Those that are getting one, love it. That's all that really matters.

Look at the pumped guards in this picture posted on another thread by @silverlining_m2

[Matt 335is]

Originally Posted by ihbase

I left with this thought: The G87 is to the F87 as the F87 was to the E82 (1M) - each successor makes its predecessor look and feel mild.

I respect your opinion, but I disagree with the above quote.
It is the E82 (1M) that still makes the F87 look and feel mild. The F87 is the softest one of the 3 and if I were to rank them from best to worst or most attractive to least attractive it'd go like this:

1) E82 (1M)
2) G87
3) F87

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by nd.point

Honestly, it's just boredom. And, um... no, you're just wrong dude. But, like it's not that bad?...

The car looks amazing!