[Mako]

Really is going to be the end of the Z4

BMW needed to realize you either need a cheap roadster or a really impressive one. They were always in the middle.

That’s why Audi and merc stopped making TT and SLK

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Mako

Really is going to be the end of the Z4

BMW needed to realize you either need a cheap roadster or a really impressive one. They were always in the middle.

That’s why Audi and merc stopped making TT and SLK

Having owned the g29, I would say it’s stuck in the middle of luxury and sport. Still a great car for the price especially relative to a boxster. It’s lightweight relatively to the M lineup.

The handschalter is a necessary upgrade to make the Z4 more athletic. But it needs ventilated seats and merino leather at a minimum, especially at the higher M40 price point. The car is a luxury cruiser ride quality without the interior luxury feel.

That said, the overall market demand for roadsters has shrunk considerably, so I’m not sure it would matter.

And the real problem now is the C8 prices have come down and those are being discounted.

[Ugly Kar]

BMW wasn't better than Tesla in this test. In fact, it was significantly worse.

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by AndreiPopescu

In 2023 lamborghini sold 1761 urus' worldwide. For the XM, 2315 was just US sales. US would have about 25% market share worldwide which means 9000-10000 XMs were sold worldwide in 2023. This means that in its first year alone XM outsold urus worldwide even though they have been making the urus since 2018.

It took Mercedes 10 years to sell more G wagon units per year than what BMW did for XM sales in the US in their first year.

Annual XM sales are also higher than Porsche cayenne turbo GT, Aston martin DBX, Ferrari purosangue, Audi RSQ8, Maserati levante trofeo, etc etc.

A quick google search show's your numbers are way off. Lets pick on 2023 since that is the only full year of XM sales we have.

2023 World wide sales XM 4,450

2023 World Wide Urus 6,087 and has been climbing since launch.

It will be interesting to see the 2024 XM sales WW but at the rate this report is showing it will be around 11% less than last year, though with the extra quarter 2024 will have my bet is it will be on par.

Also your comment that XM out sells all combined sales WW of the Urus is way off, Urus since launch is about 22k in world wide sales. XM is at 4450. Let's face it BMW is offering major discounts on the XM for a reason, I have never seen another M series vehicle get over 15k discount on the MSRP before.

Source: https://www.bmwblog.com/2023/11/03/b...e-months-2023/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...0Hurac%C3%A1ns.

[M2 SoCal]

Originally Posted by M5FirstEdition

They don't have the breakdown of how many M2, M3 and M4 they sold?

Those are reported in the M GmbH sales numbers and are separate.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by JK479

Cybertruck though is a huge mess. Not sure there is anything that can help that truck.

Marianas trench and a barge.

[jdhiro]

Originally Posted by AndreiPopescu

In 2023 lamborghini sold 1761 urus' worldwide. For the XM, 2315 was just US sales. US would have about 25% market share worldwide which means 9000-10000 XMs were sold worldwide in 2023. This means that in its first year alone XM outsold urus worldwide even though they have been making the urus since 2018.

According to the 2023 VW Annual Report, they produced 5,895 Urus in 2023.

https://www.volkswagen-group.com/en/...port-2023-2671

Page 32.

I know there are two in my parking garage, and I rarely see an XM.

[jdhiro]

Originally Posted by Mako

Really is going to be the end of the Z4

BMW needed to realize you either need a cheap roadster or a really impressive one. They were always in the middle.

That’s why Audi and merc stopped making TT and SLK

+1. I've always loved the Z cars, but BMW always half-asses them, and then insists that nobody wants a roadster.

Still, what a unicorn with those production numbers.

[Gautam]

Originally Posted by bavarianboar

I could see your point here, makes sense any day! Btw, Gautam, did you have a 550i or it was another forum member?

Yeah I do. I was, believe it or not, originally set on a Tesla model s. It looked so much better on paper, especially the performance. And the performance is definitely there. Handles fantastically for what it is, too. But everything else about it was either inferior or far inferior. This was a few years ago, before the yoke and all that. Tesla has improved their game since then, but still leaves a lot to be desired.

On the flip side, BMW’s performance numbers and weight particularly are disappointing. The model s plaid weighs 500 lbs less than an i5 m60 and has 430hp more while being in the same ballpark of price. We can say 0-60 isn’t everything, but both differences are staggering. The i4 m50 weighs almost 1000lbs more than an m3p while having only 26hp more. Imho the German automakers need to step their game up, too.

[24CBX4M40i]

I snagged that last X4 M40 right at the close of Q2..wow..they sell roughly 5 X3's to every X4

[Equilibrandt]

The surprising standouts for me are how good the newer X1 and 5 series are selling.

I figured the 5 series would suffer, but clearly the average (non-forum-member) populace loves the looks and feature set.. Intriguing!

The X1 making massive gains in comparison to the 3 series and 5 series is interesting as well; we know the US loves their SUVs, hence the X3 numbers, but it's apparent that the average 3/5 buyer is possibly cross-shopping the U11 X1 along with the X3? Or is BMW bringing in new blood from other brands, who want a cheaper (but still sporty) X1 to replace their RAV4/CRV?

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Matthi

You are reading it wrong. Sales REACHED 6.100 Urus in 2023. That is just for that one year. In the last three years they sold 16.475 so that is 5.500 per year on average.

That is for a car that's starting at 240k$. I'm not going to post global G-Wagon numbers cause those are dwarfing XM sales even more.

Dude gaslit himself into believing his made up numbers

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by WWM3

Re: X2. I wonder if it’s timing, an old model being put out to pasture and a new one getting launched.

That’s a good point.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

The surprising standouts for me are how good the newer X1 and 5 series are selling.

I figured the 5 series would suffer, but clearly the average (non-forum-member) populace loves the looks and feature set.. Intriguing!

The X1 making massive gains in comparison to the 3 series and 5 series is interesting as well; we know the US loves their SUVs, hence the X3 numbers, but it's apparent that the average 3/5 buyer is possibly cross-shopping the U11 X1 along with the X3? Or is BMW bringing in new blood from other brands, who want a cheaper (but still sporty) X1 to replace their RAV4/CRV?

X1 and 5 are both brand new products, so of course increases will be high. X1 will do well and 5-series sales will drop off a cliff in 1-2 years.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

BMW wasn't better than Tesla in this test. In fact, it was significantly worse.

https://youtu.be/vz4qnwNKxt4

In my experience on American highways going 75-80 mph the Model Y LR would go 250 miles on a full charge while the iX would do 280 miles. But the iX battery is much larger - about 110 kWh vs the Tesla’s 75 kWh. Much less efficient but also much more comfortable and quiet. It’s the price you pay for luxury! In my experience the Tesla range is very optimistic and based on city driving while the iX is accurate regardless.

[Quadruple VANOS]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Casually ignoring how the Urus is a far more expensive and niche exotic vehicle than the mess that is the XM?

Sounds to me like someone comparing Corvette sales against Ferrari sales figures.

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by Tenac

A quick google search show's your numbers are way off. Lets pick on 2023 since that is the only full year of XM sales we have.

2023 World wide sales XM 4,450

2023 World Wide Urus 6,087 and has been climbing since launch.

It will be interesting to see the 2024 XM sales WW but at the rate this report is showing it will be around 11% less than last year, though with the extra quarter 2024 will have my bet is it will be on par.

Also your comment that XM out sells all combined sales WW of the Urus is way off, Urus since launch is about 22k in world wide sales. XM is at 4450. Let's face it BMW is offering major discounts on the XM for a reason, I have never seen another M series vehicle get over 15k discount on the MSRP before.

Source: https://www.bmwblog.com/2023/11/03/b...e-months-2023/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...0Hurac%C3%A1ns.

The thing that stands out to me is the YOY decline in sales for the XM. A lot of people bought initially on the new latest greatest like many products, but then sales tapered off. That tells you where this vehicle is headed in the long run.

In contrast, look at the 2 series sales. They continue to grow significantly and the G42 was launched 3 years ago. It's not exactly a beauty, but at least it's not hideous like the XM. And it's a great value vs it's competitors.

The X1 is a good looking vehicle too. Maybe BMW is finally waking up. I'd consider one it you could get it with the B58. Even the long ipad looks better than many of the other models.

[ASAP]

x3 continues to dominate and just shows how important that vehicle is even as this gen ends it still selling..

also rip 3 series and that entire class

5 series, rip within a few months... those are sales of the newly released one

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

The thing that stands out to me is the YOY decline in sales for the XM. A lot of people bought initially on the new latest greatest like many products, but then sales tapered off. That tells you where this vehicle is headed in the long run.

In contrast, look at the 2 series sales. They continue to grow significantly and the G42 was launched 3 years ago. It's not exactly a beauty, but at least it's not hideous like the XM. And it's a great value vs it's competitors.

The X1 is a good looking vehicle too. Maybe BMW is finally waking up. I'd consider one it you could get it with the B58. Even the long ipad looks better than many of the other models.

yeah very good point, overall I enjoy the brand so I never want to see things fail but the XM is a clear fail here. heck today on the XM forum someone mentioned getting 30k off the MSRP of one, if that isn't a sign I don't know what is.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Maybe BMW needs to reintroduce the 2020 M3 and M4 to take advantage of the nostalgia trend? It worked for Ford with the Bronco? Blue prints must be around here somewhere?

I definitely remember them having a hard time moving F8x CS leases at $700/mo, it was actually the only time I had considered one. Probably not the golden age (4 years ago lol) you think it was

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by ASAP

x3 continues to dominate and just shows how important that vehicle is even as this gen ends it still selling..

also rip 3 series and that entire class

5 series, rip within a few months... those are sales of the newly released one

I love the X3 too me its the perfect balance of fun and practicality specially with size. Then again I loved my X5MC as well...

[blue_seather]

Could someone make sense of this for me?

On the first chart, it says 4 series Q2 2024 - 3890 and iX Q2 2024 - 1122.

On the second one (for the EVs), i4 for Q2 2024 is 7066 and iX for Q2 2024 - 3545.

How have BMW sold more electric 4 series cars than all the 4 series cars combined (which should include the electric one). And how has BMW sold both 1122 and 3545 iX cars at the same time?

Also, under the first chart it states the following:

In the second quarter of 2024, BMW brand sales in the U.S. totaled 91,237 vehicles, a 3.7% increase from the 87,948 vehicles sold in the second quarter of 2023.

... which clearly does not correspond to the chart above it... at all...

Am I dumb or missing something here?