[Mike_H_]

Originally Posted by IanH

M2 AWD waiting room it is.

The M2 xdrive in Skyscraper may be enough to get me out of the M240ix.

[BimmerFix]

Originally Posted by Mike_H_

The M2 xdrive in Skyscraper may be enough to get me out of the M240ix.

BMW knows what they are doing

The X-drive will bring the M2 plenty of repeat & new customers alike

[JMcLellan]

Originally Posted by BimmerFix

BMW knows what they are doing

The X-drive will bring the M2 plenty of repeat & new customers alike

Yes they do. I almost got into an AWD car instead of my G87 but test driving the M2 I was convinced that I could get by fine with a powerful RWD car. But once BMW announced the X drive coming I was a little pissed. Who knows, maybe someone on here in a couple years will get an AWD one, not like as much, or maybe wants to switch to a 6mt and we can trade.

But then after Xdrive whats the next thing BMW puts out there to influence us to buy another car?

[fzr100098]

AWD is kind of a band aid for people who don't know how to drive. If you look at lap times of professional drivers in an M2 I doubt there is much in it. Look up C&D Lightning Lap times for the ZL1 1LE - tires, brakes, and suspension set up is as much a factor if not more. 0-60 times are again bragging rights for low talent drivers

I owned an RS3 and it did weird things in corners, did not feel natural at all and happy to be back in rwd. Plus xdrive is more weight and complexity

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

But then after Xdrive whats the next thing BMW puts out there to influence us to buy another car?

the all new, all electric, H87 M2 - available in 13 different shades of grey and blue with the all-new BMW ScreenShield 9000, replacing the whole windshield with an LED screen that transmits a camera's view of your surroundings. it goes 0-60 in who gives a fuck and weighs only 5,500 lbs. get yours today!

also available exclusively in 4 door coupe and CUV body styles. priced at whatever the fuck you will pay for it.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by fzr100098

AWD is kind of a band aid for people who don't know how to drive.

Dude, just... no. I love RWD and have never owned an AWD car, but there are totally valid reasons to pick AWD. Shitting on people about it and saying "git gud" is not cool.

[fzr100098]

The valid reasons are inclement weather

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by JMcLellan

But then after Xdrive whats the next thing BMW puts out there to influence us to buy another car?

Blockchain, AI, e-ink paint, probably. There's always another trend.

Cars are trending towards commodification anyway, maybe in 50 years they will be indistinguishable appliances like toasters. Who knows?

Hell, in 50 years there probably won't be actual cars anyway, just trucks and SUVs. And maybe we won't "buy" them, just rent/subscribe to them. Cars As a Service: just like video games, movies, and music. Shrug.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Blockchain, AI, e-ink paint, probably. There's always another trend.

Cars are trending towards commodification anyway, maybe in 50 years they will be indistinguishable appliances like toasters. Who knows?

Hell, in 50 years there probably won't be actual cars anyway, just trucks and SUVs. And maybe we won't "buy" them, just rent/subscribe to them. Cars As a Service: just like video games, movies, and music. Shrug.

you've just described EVs and leasing, respectively. lol

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

you've just described EVs and leasing, respectively. lol

Yes, but my point is that buying might not be an option anymore.

[ChiTownM]

One thing that draws some of us to the 911 is it's heritage with unique shape and overall setup. Its a great looking sports car for many. You pay for that and it's pricing is definitely undermining that previous customer base.

I just wish M cars would have a better depreciation curve.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by robopp

Fair points. I honestly don’t have any interest in a 718 aside from a GT4, which Porsche wouldn’t let me buy. The GTS innovation is incredible compared to what BMW is doing along with BMW slowly killing the manual. Porsche on the other hand is releasing new manual offers that people thought would never happen - 992.2 Turbo manual!
How many manual options does BMW offer? The G80/82 and the G87 and that’s it, right? Porsche already has two varients with manual offerings - GT3 and now T. A manual Turbo will be released in the near future bring that total up to 3.

Sure, lets talk about it.

BMW manual options are
G87 M2
G80 M3
G82 M4
2024+ Z4

Lets talk about the Porsche manual offerings
GT3 - $225K+ options and ADM
992.2T $136K + options and ADM
992.2 RWD Manual Turbo model, no pricing yet, but if its anything like the 992.1 RWD Manual Turbo model that was called the Sport Classic, its going to be over $300,000.

If you're talking about German Luxury automakers making true manual cars for enthusiasts to buy, looking at amount of cars and pricing, BMW takes the crown.

[RobM2]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Sure, lets talk about it.

BMW manual options are
G87 M2
G80 M3
G82 M4
2024+ Z4

Lets talk about the Porsche manual offerings
GT3 - $225K+ options and ADM
992.2T $136K + options and ADM
992.2 RWD Manual Turbo model, no pricing yet, but if its anything like the 992.1 RWD Manual Turbo model that was called the Sport Classic, its going to be over $300,000.

If you're talking about German Luxury automakers making true manual cars for enthusiasts to buy, looking at amount of cars and pricing, BMW takes the crown.

The 718 GTS 4.0 comes with a manual too.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by RobM2

The 718 GTS 4.0 comes with a manual too.

in 10 months you won't be able to order any ICE 718, and even now, good luck getting a GTS 4.0 allocation.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by RobM2

The 718 GTS 4.0 comes with a manual too.

Right and it's getting discontinued and essentially replaced by the 911 Turbo 6 speed. Proving my point even further, discontinuing a $100K car and replacing it with a $300K car. Not very enthusiastic of Porsche lol. BMW on the other hand is adding the Z4 to the mix with the manual.

[hb]

Originally Posted by RobM2

The 718 GTS 4.0 comes with a manual too.

It does. Ordered one as well. Expensive, but fun to drive

[robopp]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

Sure, lets talk about it.

BMW manual options are
G87 M2
G80 M3
G82 M4
2024+ Z4

Lets talk about the Porsche manual offerings
GT3 - $225K+ options and ADM
992.2T $136K + options and ADM
992.2 RWD Manual Turbo model, no pricing yet, but if its anything like the 992.1 RWD Manual Turbo model that was called the Sport Classic, its going to be over $300,000.

If you're talking about German Luxury automakers making true manual cars for enthusiasts to buy, looking at amount of cars and pricing, BMW takes the crown.

If you’re counting G80 and G82 then you need to include GT3 touring and the winged GT3. Additionally, we don’t know if the S will be manual or what other special offerings Porsche has in store. So that’s 4 to 4 without accounting for the S or other special models that might be offered in manual.

Going back to 992.1, which was still being sold 6 months ago, Porsche had the following models in manual:
992 T
992 S
992 GTS
992 GT3
992 GT3 Touring
992 Sport Classic
992 S/T

7 > 4. Porsche has always held the crown.

[HeyLookABurrito]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

in 10 months you won't be able to order any ICE 718, and even now, good luck getting a GTS 4.0 allocation.

This is the biggest reason I ordered a 25 G87. I was on the fence about a 718 or a G87. I went into the two different porshe dealers asking for a 718 base all the way to GTS 4.0 allocation and the sales reps basically laughed me out of the showroom. This was back in May this year so well over a year left in production for these cars.

I kid you not I left the 2nd porshe dealer went directly to the local BMW dealer and had the first slot for a 25 individual color m2 when I left same day.

The buying experience was so much better its not even funny. I will never play the game of by 3 macans for 1 [insert 911/718] here.

This is coming from a manual buyer as well. Auto transmission was never in the cards for me.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by robopp

If you’re counting G80 and G82 then you need to include GT3 touring and the winged GT3. Additionally, we don’t know if the S will be manual or what other special offerings Porsche has in store. So that’s 4 to 4 without accounting for the S or other special models that might be offered in manual.

Going back to 992.1, which was still being sold 6 months ago, Porsche had the following models in manual:
992 T
992 S
992 GTS
992 GT3
992 GT3 Touring
992 Sport Classic
992 S/T

7 > 4. Porsche has always held the crown.

Not a chance, those are all 992 911 models with different options or option packages. One has a spoiler the other doesn't. A G82 and G80 have different bodies, door count, door sizes, etc. That would be like me throwing a G82 and the G82 3.0 CSL. As far as I'm concerned, BMW wins when it comes to making a luxury sports car that you can actually buy that comes with a stick.

[garageoverflow]

I'm definitely considering a used 991.2 (2017-2019) GTS or 992.1 (2020-2024) S after driving one a week ago. Both of these have the "bigger" turbos than the Base or T models (and the 991.2 S was in between).

The clutch/shifter combo is an absolute dream.
Relatively* lightweight still.
You can gain 100+ extra hp from an OTS tune and 0 mods, and the factory clutch seems to be happy at that power level.

On the short list for when I'm ready!

[OldButSmooth]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

in 10 months you won't be able to order any ICE 718, and even now, good luck getting a GTS 4.0 allocation.

I wonder if Porsche will rethink its EV future. I note Porsche company shares have dropped in recent times which would indicate nervous shareholders due to a current one third drop in sale expectations year to date.

[OneTwo3]

What’s all this stuff I read about the BMW manual being awful compared to a Porsche?

Can someone explain?