[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by Artemis

There were plenty of drivers in F1. Hamilton is one of the very best. Those passionate about F1 failing to acknowledge this, are delusional. Hamilton is currently in wintertime of his career (°1985). Verstappen (°1997) is still in summertime. Hopefully Hamilton's move to Ferrari in 2025 at the age of 40 won't be like Schumacher's comeback at the age of 41 at Mercedes (P9 2010 | P8 2011 | P12 2013).

As commented before, I'd like to see Verstappen move from currently arguably the best car on the grid (RB20) to a Mercedes-AMG car (W15), to show everyone what he can squeeze out of that car and that - also out of his comfort zone - he's worth his salt.

Good post...one where its not necessary to reduce one drivers brilliance in order to enhance another.

Its true Hamilton in 2007 landed in a front winning team and if McLaren had backed one driver, either of them would have won the Championship.
Alonso was incensed that he didn't get #1 driver status as he felt he deserved (or was actually promised by Ron).
Trying to blackmail Ron Dennis into giving him #1 status in the team was a bad mistake...Alonsos single biggest handicap was his mouth, he just didn't know when to keep it shut all though his career.

I don't think you will ever see Verstappen in any team with a highly talented team mate being allowed to compete on equal terms.
Jos knows from his time with Schumacher at Benneton how a team needs to be set up in order to showcase one driver....and isn't by having a team mate who might turn out to be faster. It wouldn't make any sense to risk Max Verstappen's reputation.

Finally struggling to believe some are still trying to make out that Senna was in some way to blame for his own death.
The team cut and welded the steering column...how much torsional force could one person apply to a steering column that could snap a properly made weld!...seriously?

[M5Rick]

MAX is remaining at RBR until 2028 and possibly beyond.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

MAX is remaining at RBR until 2028 and possibly beyond.

Yesterday sim racers asked Verstappen a couple of questions. Verstappen was asked "whether there is news regarding Mercedes". Verstappen replied with some hesitation or distraction: "There is no news. I mean, contract with the Red Bull, ha". A sim racer responded teasingly: "That didn't sound very convincing". Verstappen reacted firmly: "What do you mean?" and laughed.

00:05 - 00:23:
https://www.tiktok.com/@biancavanelt...52841033485601

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Yesterday sim racers asked Verstappen a couple of questions. Verstappen was asked "whether there is news regarding Mercedes". Verstappen replied with some hesitation or distraction: "There is no news. I mean, contract with the Red Bull, ha". A sim racer responded teasingly: "That didn't sound very convincing". Verstappen reacted firmly: "What do you mean?" and laughed.

00:05 - 00:23:
https://www.tiktok.com/@biancavanelt...52841033485601

Pub talk with the lads

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Finally struggling to believe some are still trying to make out that Senna was in some way to blame for his own death.
The team cut and welded the steering column...how much torsional force could one person apply to a steering column that could snap a properly made weld!...seriously?

It doesn't matter anymore. We will never know for sure the cause or, multifactorial, the cluster of causes of Senna's Imola crash. Neither will he.

But we do know for sure that, in the grand scheme of things, Senna was one hell of an F1 ace who managed to mesmerize lots of F1 aficionados (including yours truly) with his on-track action, that he's dearly missed and that safety has improved ever since his fatal accident.

An aspect often overlooked when comparing Senna to modern-day F1 drivers like Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and Verstappen: Senna had to operate 3 pedals and a stick shift most of his career, requiring more dexterity than 2 pedals and 2 gear shift paddles. Both hands and feet dancing around - the driver's seat as a workplace with more mechanics than electronics at play (Ferrari introduced the concept of a paddle-shifted transmission on their Ferrari Type 640 at the 1989 Brazil GP; by 1992 most teams favored paddles; by 1996 all teams shifted to paddles).

On-board with Senna (POV):

• Senna - Monaco 1990: here;
• Senna - Kyalami 1992: here;
• Senna - Suzuka 1989 - 1991 - 1993: here.

1991 Brazil GP: Senna was leading the race but his transmission started failing. He lost 3rd, 4th and eventually 5th gear towards the end of the race. He was forced to drive the final stages of the race stuck in 6th gear. Rain in the final two laps further endangered his race win. He still managed to win the Interlagos race almost 3s clear of Patrese. After the race he had to be assisted in getting out of his car (way more demanding than Verstappen experiencing heavy cramps in the right leg throughout the whole final lap of the F1 2021 Abu Dhabi race).
See from 42:25 onwards: here (49:05: Senna's race win primal scream | 51:30: knackered after the race | 54:35: like a ghost on the podium).

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Finally struggling to believe some are still trying to make out that Senna was in some way to blame for his own death.

+1. That’s crazy talk.

[Killed by Death]

You guys read too much click bait!!!!

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by Artemis

An aspect often overlooked when comparing Senna to modern-day F1 drivers like Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and Verstappen: Senna had to operate 3 pedals and a stick shift most of his career, requiring more dexterity than 2 pedals and 2 gear shift paddles. Both hands and feet dancing around - the driver's seat as a workplace with more mechanics than electronics at play (Ferrari introduced the concept of a paddle-shifted transmission on their Ferrari Type 640 at the 1989 Brazil GP; by 1992 most teams favored paddles; by 1996 all teams shifted to paddles).

Why it’s impossible to compare drivers across generations. H-pattern vs paddle shifter is just one. Engine, fuel, tyre, aerodynamics, size and weight of car, regulations, feeder series, budgets, travel, number of races, sizes of teams, onboard aids and controls, etc, etc, etc. Fangio and Verstappen would’ve struggled in each other’s times.

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

Why it’s impossible to compare drivers across generations. H-pattern vs paddle shifter is just one. Engine, fuel, tyre, aerodynamics, size and weight of car, regulations, feeder series, budgets, travel, number of races, sizes of teams, onboard aids and controls, etc, etc, etc. Fangio and Verstappen would’ve struggled in each other’s times.

The onboard videos of Senna driving at Monaco are mesmerising...the workload looks so much higher than you see in current F1 racecars.
BMWs in qualifying trim were pushing out >1400 bhp with a near vertical power curve.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

+1. That’s crazy talk.

Pretty good summary from a fairly reliable source. Article discusses both theoretical causes of the accident.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ning-innocence

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

The onboard videos of Senna driving at Monaco are mesmerising...the workload looks so much higher than you see in current F1 racecars.
BMWs in qualifying trim were pushing out >1400 bhp with a near vertical power curve.

Today is more about subtle behaviour than some of the more aggressive driving. If you have ever watched Senna he drove prodding the throttle when he went around a corner provoking instability almost unique to other drivers. Today's fragile tyres would be toast with the same style, could he adapt, maybe but it shows that not all styles and eras match.

Today if you go around a corner and cook a tyre on just one corner then the lap after that is gone, that was never the case in the past. He was a unique talent but as with any driver sometimes they are good in their time and don't cross eras as well. Mind you he was fit compared to other drivers but today they are crazy fit in comparison.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Pretty good summary from a fairly reliable source. Article discusses both theoretical causes of the accident.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ning-innocence

First time I hear of a Matt Hill. Whilst he may be reliable, given your streak of utterly inventive posts, better pass on stuff you deem credible.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Today's fragile tyres would be toast with the same style

And tyres, again, it’s just one of the dozens and dozens of features that changed with the generations. Remember the grooved tyres that Schumacher won dozens of races with ? Very different from today’s 5 compounds. And refuelling that helped Piquet pick up precious points and wins ? Gone.

Vertstappen, though an incredible driver, maybe would or maybe not excel with yesteryear’s features. So far the only driver that has shown talent throughout changes is Alonso. Sadly, as mentioned above, his mouth is equally talented. (Sarcasm)

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Today is more about subtle behaviour than some of the more aggressive driving. If you have ever watched Senna he drove prodding the throttle when he went around a corner provoking instability almost unique to other drivers. Today's fragile tyres would be toast with the same style, could he adapt, maybe but it shows that not all styles and eras match.

Today if you go around a corner and cook a tyre on just one corner then the lap after that is gone, that was never the case in the past. He was a unique talent but as with any driver sometimes they are good in their time and don't cross eras as well. Mind you he was fit compared to other drivers but today they are crazy fit in comparison.

I can't think of any reason why Senna would not be able to adapt perfectly well to a current F1 car.
Sure if you went back in time and transported him to now and stuck him any F1 car it would be a steep learning curve....nothing any fairly smart driver couldn't adapt to fairly quickly.
Heh I sound like a proper fan...I really wasn't.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

First time I hear of a Matt Hill. Whilst he may be reliable, given your streak of utterly inventive posts, better pass on stuff you deem credible.

"Utterly inventive posts"...Whatever...Not my fault you have no sense of humor or take things too seriously.

Did you even read the article? It simply presents 2 theories on the accident and makes no judgement to which one is correct.

[M5Rick]

Ben Sulayem has been cleared by an independent investigation of interference in two separate incidents last year.
https://racingnews365.com/fia-presid...dict-delivered

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

I can't think of any reason why Senna would not be able to adapt perfectly well to a current F1 car.
Sure if you went back in time and transported him to now and stuck him any F1 car it would be a steep learning curve....nothing any fairly smart driver couldn't adapt to fairly quickly.
Heh I sound like a proper fan...I really wasn't.

I think he could, but ironically I think someone like Mansell and his rather brutish style might not be one that would adapt so well especially as he was much older when he got his F1 championship.

Anyway, I hear Horner wants to leave for another role now, back to the click bait!!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Today is more about subtle behaviour than some of the more aggressive driving. If you have ever watched Senna he drove prodding the throttle when he went around a corner provoking instability almost unique to other drivers. Today's fragile tyres would be toast with the same style, could he adapt, maybe but it shows that not all styles and eras match.

Today if you go around a corner and cook a tyre on just one corner then the lap after that is gone, that was never the case in the past. He was a unique talent but as with any driver sometimes they are good in their time and don't cross eras as well. Mind you he was fit compared to other drivers but today they are crazy fit in comparison.

Tapping/stabbing the throttle to optimize overall speed through the corners:

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

I can't think of any reason why Senna would not be able to adapt perfectly well to a current F1 car.

Adapt is one thing. Win is another. Senna was a great driver. But his skills perfectly matched the regulations and technologies of the time. We saw how Schumacher struggled with just one car after his winning cars. The planets must be aligned in terms of skills, health, regulations, technology, money and luck in order for the wins and championships to come. Senna fan here.

[Andrew2]

[QUOTE=Artemis;31003479]Tapping/stabbing the throttle to optimize overall speed through the corners:

Is Senna in the same gear as Palmer when he is stabbing the throttle ?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

43 pages of this.

I don't care what happens, I would just like it to happen. lol

12-minute summary:

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Good post...one where its not necessary to reduce one drivers brilliance in order to enhance another.

Its true Hamilton in 2007 landed in a front winning team and if McLaren had backed one driver, either of them would have won the Championship.
Alonso was incensed that he didn't get #1 driver status as he felt he deserved (or was actually promised by Ron).
Trying to blackmail Ron Dennis into giving him #1 status in the team was a bad mistake...Alonsos single biggest handicap was his mouth, he just didn't know when to keep it shut all though his career.

I don't think you will ever see Verstappen in any team with a highly talented team mate being allowed to compete on equal terms.
Jos knows from his time with Schumacher at Benneton how a team needs to be set up in order to showcase one driver....and isn't by having a team mate who might turn out to be faster. It wouldn't make any sense to risk Max Verstappen's reputation.

Finally struggling to believe some are still trying to make out that Senna was in some way to blame for his own death.
The team cut and welded the steering column...how much torsional force could one person apply to a steering column that could snap a properly made weld!...seriously?

Alonso's mouth is by no means a handicap and is an asset to F1. F1 would be boring without Alonso's brash honesty.

I don't doubt one bit that Max is not the least worried about having a team mate who might be faster. I think Hamilton was when Nico retired, thus Bottas.