[Ugly Kar]

So the max HP available is 148 and you think it's appealing???

The only appealing EV is the Ionic N and it's counterpart the Kia EV6. This is a BMW forum for driving enthusiasts.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

So the max HP available is 148 and you think it's appealing???

The only appealing EV is the Ionic N and it's counterpart the Kia EV6. This is a BMW forum for driving enthusiasts.

This is a sub-forum for General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

So the max HP available is 148 and you think it's appealing???

The only appealing EV is the Ionic N and it's counterpart the Kia EV6. This is a BMW forum for driving enthusiasts.

180 ft/lbs torque is the critical part here, for a supermini, meant for in-town use and zipping in and out of tight quarters, that is more than adequate for its built purpose.

And since when is being a driving enthusiast all about 600+horsepowers? When you can use barely 1/6th of it on the road without the red and blue chasing after you.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Have you guys gotta ruin every thread that even mentions an EV? Let it go already.

I don't even have a way to buy this car due to being in the US, but I at least find it interesting. The fact that it can be had below $40k USD does make it interesting for me, but only as an addition.

If you other guys find $3 million ICE hyper cars interesting, by all means join those threads. I for one think this is a very cool design and an interesting car.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

This is a BMW forum for driving enthusiasts.

This.

I think EV's have their space to occupy (which is getting larger and larger), but it's hard to find it when they're being shoved down our throats so quickly, and threatening our beloved ICE's at the same time, which creates a natural push-back.

EV's just need to slow their roll.

[Alfisti]

Other than sound for sportscars there's nothing beloved about ICE, if you could charge an EV in 5 minutes the ICE would be dead in about a week. Reality is though, it takes hours so the ICE is going nowhere until they sort out the charging issue on EVs, assuming they can ... which is doubtful.

[LuisBoston]

The sensible (boring) EV is the Honda Prologue. It's the lozenge-shaped CUV blob that appeals to the American masses. Proof is shown in the sales numbers, where it was the dark horse that quickly became an EV best seller. Even if it's a re-badged GM product.

If it had a Toyota badge, it would sell 10x as many as Honda managed to move. The buzz-forks was not it.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

So the max HP available is 148 and you think it's appealing???

The only appealing EV is the Ionic N and it's counterpart the Kia EV6. This is a BMW forum for driving enthusiasts.

Does it need more horsepower for its intended use case?

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Other than sound for sportscars there's nothing beloved about ICE, if you could charge an EV in 5 minutes the ICE would be dead in about a week. Reality is though, it takes hours so the ICE is going nowhere until they sort out the charging issue on EVs, assuming they can ... which is doubtful.

I think you're forgetting how many older people there are in the population, and how tied to memory and freedom vehicles are. I agree with you technically, but there is a whole lot of dreaming you're missing. Did you happen to catch Barrett Jackson Scottsdale this past week? People pay MILLIONS of dollars (billions in total) every year to go back, not forward. This is something that can't be swept under the rug.

I do agree that the guys wanting a manual transmission Z4 with great handling, great sound, etc are a shrinking population, but the guys loving ICE will be around as long as their memory lasts.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by NSXR

I think you're forgetting how many older people there are in the population, and how tied to memory and freedom vehicles are. I agree with you technically, but there is a whole lot of dreaming you're missing. Did you happen to catch Barrett Jackson Scottsdale this past week? People pay MILLIONS of dollars (billions in total) every year to go back, not forward. This is something that can't be swept under the rug.

I do agree that the guys wanting a manual transmission Z4 with great handling, great sound, etc are a shrinking population, but the guys loving ICE will be around as long as their memory lasts.

I'm one of those Z4'ers. I doubt I have enough runway left in my driving life to see when EV will hit the market with the magical lightweight, solid-state battery that recovers 600 miles in 10 minutes. Even if the battery exists now, it will take 15 years for it to get down the cost curve to affordability. And by then, I'd want it in a 1968 GTO convertible retromod.

[M5Rick]

'Is zis the new EV Clio papa?
'Oui Nicole, I think maybe but there are so many now and one looks like the other.
'Well papa, R5, Clio whatever it is called should sound like this..

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm one of those Z4'ers. I doubt I have enough runway left in my driving life to see when EV will hit the market with the magical lightweight, solid-state battery that recovers 600 miles in 10 minutes. Even if the battery exists now, it will take 15 years for it to get down the cost curve to affordability. And by then, I'd want it in a 1968 GTO convertible retromod.

I'm right there with you.

I swoon every time I see that Wegovy commercial with the Roadrunner.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by NSXR

I think you're forgetting how many older people there are in the population, and how tied to memory and freedom vehicles are. I agree with you technically, but there is a whole lot of dreaming you're missing. Did you happen to catch Barrett Jackson Scottsdale this past week? People pay MILLIONS of dollars (billions in total) every year to go back, not forward. This is something that can't be swept under the rug.

I do agree that the guys wanting a manual transmission Z4 with great handling, great sound, etc are a shrinking population, but the guys loving ICE will be around as long as their memory lasts.

They're a niche though, I mean some people still take trips on a steam train due to nostalgia.

The mass market will switch based on buyer preference and if an EV was the same price an an ICE vehicle and could be charged in 5 minutes like an ICE vehicle but you can run it for much less, then a ICE would be dead overnight. That's a lot of if's though, we've hit a wall on charging that no one seems capable of overcoming and untl that is sorted range anxiety will remain.

Range is a symptom, not a cause, the cause is the slow charging.

[W///]

Originally Posted by NSXR

I think you're forgetting how many older people there are in the population, and how tied to memory and freedom vehicles are. I agree with you technically, but there is a whole lot of dreaming you're missing. Did you happen to catch Barrett Jackson Scottsdale this past week? People pay MILLIONS of dollars (billions in total) every year to go back, not forward. This is something that can't be swept under the rug.

I do agree that the guys wanting a manual transmission Z4 with great handling, great sound, etc are a shrinking population, but the guys loving ICE will be around as long as their memory lasts.

Absolutely no one is buying these 6-7 figure cars from Barrett Jackson to drive them to work and get groceries in all weather 5 days a week.

I love these fun ICE cars as much as the next person here, but I currently daily drive a G20 330e and absolutely love it (for what it is). I would never have an EV as an only car, but I totally see them as a great supplement to fun ICE cars.

Originally Posted by Alfisti

They're a niche though, I mean some people still take trips on a steam train due to nostalgia.

The mass market will switch based on buyer preference and if an EV was the same price an an ICE vehicle and could be charged in 5 minutes like an ICE vehicle but you can run it for much less, then a ICE would be dead overnight. That's a lot of if's though, we've hit a wall on charging that no one seems capable of overcoming and untl that is sorted range anxiety will remain.

Range is a symptom, not a cause, the cause is the slow charging.

Exactly right. If given the choice between a 4 pot VW Tiguan or an EV version if they had one, I can't see on reason to go ICE there ASSUMING charging is not a problem. And this would also be assuming similar price wise.

What drives me crazy is when these journalists compare Teslas with M3's. I know some people cross shop them, but it makes 0 sense for me.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

They're a niche though, I mean some people still take trips on a steam train due to nostalgia.

True, but not so many people do this. ICE car culture is in every city, every nation, and every warm weekend. They've run out of names for Cars and Coffee it's so pervasive.

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The mass market will switch based on buyer preference and if an EV was the same price an an ICE vehicle and could be charged in 5 minutes like an ICE vehicle but you can run it for much less, then a ICE would be dead overnight.

Overnight is an impossibility. No infrastructure to support an industry that's too expensive to begin with. Look around you, most people just don't have the money for these kinds of vehicles, and that's not going to change overnight even if the infrastructure could.

EV's are a slow burn, there is no other way at the moment. The future is interesting for sure.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by NSXR

True, but not so many people do this. ICE car culture is in every city, every nation, and every warm weekend. They've run out of names for Cars and Coffee it's so pervasive.



Overnight is an impossibility. No infrastructure to support an industry that's too expensive to begin with. Look around you, most people just don't have the money for these kinds of vehicles, and that's not going to change overnight even if the infrastructure could.

EV's are a slow burn, there is no other way at the moment. The future is interesting for sure.

Culture is irrelevant, sort out charging and EV's explode, my take though has been we will NOT get on top of charging for a lifetime.

Your second paragraph is just repeating what I said, I am acknowledging we are not there yet, if we were, ICE would vanish.... but we are not and seem to have al but stalled.

[dfox]

This thing is awesome. Would absolutely consider getting one if we could get them here, but they just don't make sense for the general american public so we won't see them.



but then, all the us folks in here, coming in and mucking up a thread about a european targeted EV. typical. guys, the US is massive compared to europe. Our commute is longer than it is for them to go on a road trip.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Culture is irrelevant, sort out charging and EV's explode, my take though has been we will NOT get on top of charging for a lifetime.

Your second paragraph is just repeating what I said, I am acknowledging we are not there yet, if we were, ICE would vanish.... but we are not and seem to have al but stalled.

You're neglecting cost.

Reality is the benefit that EVs have is government subsidies, and companies selling them at a loss. If they were priced at their true costs, nobody would buy them.

It isn't charging that's the issue, it's cost. A Kia EV6 GT is like $62k for a freaking Kia that's GTI sized. The EV9 that's basically a $50k Telluride alternative is $78k.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

A Kia EV6 GT is like $62k for a freaking Kia that's GTI sized.

Kia EV6 is not GTI sized. Like, not even close. 16 inches longer, 3 inches taller, 4 inches wider...

Kia EV6 GT comes with 641 HP and 568 TQ with AWD. How much does the fwd GTI come with again?

The cars are in completely different categories man...

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

You're neglecting cost.

Reality is the benefit that EVs have is government subsidies, and companies selling them at a loss. If they were priced at their true costs, nobody would buy them.

It isn't charging that's the issue, it's cost. A Kia EV6 GT is like $62k for a freaking Kia that's GTI sized. The EV9 that's basically a $50k Telluride alternative is $78k.

Nope, I mentioned it earlier.

[W///]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

You're neglecting cost.

Reality is the benefit that EVs have is government subsidies, and companies selling them at a loss. If they were priced at their true costs, nobody would buy them.

It isn't charging that's the issue, it's cost. A Kia EV6 GT is like $62k for a freaking Kia that's GTI sized. The EV9 that's basically a $50k Telluride alternative is $78k.

No he's not, that's the whole point of this thread rather than EV's in general. The discussion is regarding this Renault, and when I look on the UK configurator, the mid-range comes out to 27K British Pounds.

A Honda Jazz Hybrid in the UK for the most basic model starts at 27K British Pounds as well. A base Golf with a 1.5L engine is also the same price.

I realize they're not 1:1, but at least this EV is on the same planet price wise as a comparable ICE. Between how they're priced, the cool and interesting design, features, I'd say this is compelling. Again, this is not to replace everyone's Mclaren.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by W///

No he's not, that's the whole point of this thread rather than EV's in general. The discussion is regarding this Renault, and when I look on the UK configurator, the mid-range comes out to 27K British Pounds.

A Honda Jazz Hybrid in the UK for the most basic model starts at 27K British Pounds as well. A base Golf with a 1.5L engine is also the same price.

I realize they're not 1:1, but at least this EV is on the same planet price wise as a comparable ICE. Between how they're priced, the cool and interesting design, features, I'd say this is compelling. Again, this is not to replace everyone's Mclaren.

Near me, you can go buy a brand new Nissan Leaf for $19K. This Renault is not likely to be much smaller than the leaf, and much more compelling.