[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ASAP

That's just simply not true... if you mean more comfortable as in size sure... but in terms of suspension, no way... the body on frame setup makes the car wobble no matter what you do... my friend has a brand new f150 and another has a brand new f350 (granted he uses this one for work)... and yes they are full of features and well finished (they also cost close to $100K)... but when we drove it, it still felt like a truck and there was no changing that. Another friend of mine has a new raptor that doesn't fit it his garage and is loud as hell on the street but arguably he uses it offroad every once in a while so there is that..

350 is a huge work truck that doesn't ride well when not being worked. Raptors ride like shit because they're bro dozers. But a well equipped F150 without the crazy brodozers stuff rides great. Ram too, it even has 4 corner coil springs or air as an option. Escalades and Navigators are body on frame too, and nobody has ever complained they're wobble and don't ride nicely, lol.

The best riding vehicles I've ever spent a lot of time in are my X5, and then right below that our expedition and my f150. That includes countless rentals, crossovers of friends, sedans, luxury cars... A nicely equipped truck without all the stupid off-road pack stuff just rides great. My f150 was super comfortable, but it had the fx4 package which had soft off-road shocks, and so it leaned on turns and I hated that coming from a Corvette. My next truck with get a ridetech lowered suspension for sure.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I live in a rural farming county. I'd say it is 70% pickup truck ownership here. What is the difference between driving an empty 5-seat sedan with an empty trunk to the office vs. an empty pickup truck with and empty bed? Some of you have this notion that because a pickup truck has a pickup bed on it, the bed needs to be full anytime the truck is driven. Sort of a stupid concept. And we call that an "emotional support vehicle" as some sort of off-handed insult? LOL.

Weight, size, efficiency are all pretty big differences between a commuter sedan vs commuter pickup.

I can't stand being on the road behind a pickup (or full size suv for that matter). When you live in a somewhat dense city, parking a full size pickup truck is a challenge, and creates headaches for everyone else. They don't fit in the tiny compact parking spots that every developer wants to put in.

They're pretty inefficient, along with their BOF SUV brothers. They also weigh substantially more, so they do more damage to roads, and present a much larger risk to commuters in small cars. They do substantially more damage to other vehicles or property when they're involved in an accident.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dfox

Weight, size, efficiency are all pretty big differences between a commuter sedan vs commuter pickup.

I can't stand being on the road behind a pickup (or full size suv for that matter). When you live in a somewhat dense city, parking a full size pickup truck is a challenge, and creates headaches for everyone else. They don't fit in the tiny compact parking spots that every developer wants to put in.

They're pretty inefficient, along with their BOF SUV brothers. They also weigh substantially more, so they do more damage to roads, and present a much larger risk to commuters in small cars. They do substantially more damage to other vehicles or property when they're involved in an accident.

They weigh significantly less than an EV. A fully loaded Powerboost F150 platinum super crew is 5100lbs. And they typically have tires that can last 80k miles or so and so those do far less damage than the 15-20k mile tires on an EV. So if we are going to complain about vehicles that do damage to roads or other cars, let's call it down the middle and point out that trucks and fullsize SUVs do far less damage to them than an EV, and are far safer for other cars and barriers than EVs.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

They weigh significantly less than an EV. A fully loaded Powerboost F250 platinum super crew is 5100lbs. And they typically have tires that can last 80k miles or so and so those do far less damage than the 15-20k mile tires on an EV. So if we are going to complain about vehicles that do damage to roads or other cars, let's call it down the middle and point out that trucks and fullsize SUVs do far less damage to them than an EV, and are far safer for other cars and barriers than EVs.

My driveway would disagree. My truck use to tear the shit out of my painted driveway no matter what I did or how gently I parked it. Never had the Tesla lift up the paint on the driveway. Fortunately, I now keep the truck in NC where the driveway is asphalt and doesn't care.

But yeah... these are all things in my super advanced quantum matrix that I consider every time I get a new vehicle.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

They weigh significantly less than an EV. A fully loaded Powerboost F250 platinum super crew is 5100lbs. And they typically have tires that can last 80k miles or so and so those do far less damage than the 15-20k mile tires on an EV. So if we are going to complain about vehicles that do damage to roads or other cars, let's call it down the middle and point out that trucks and fullsize SUVs do far less damage to them than an EV, and are far safer for other cars and barriers than EVs.

This tells me you have no freaking idea how much a Model S or 3 weighs.

And I can't find a modern/current F-250 less than 6700lbs or so.

Have you checked yourself for drugs?

I do agree big trucks are the new "7 series iL" for people.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've had all three sizes, a 1st gen Ford Ranger and a 10th generation F150. I'm now in a midsized (GM Colorado chassis). The Scout looks to be an in-betweener. Just like not everyone needs a full-size sedan. It's great to have choices. I have a Gen 6 Bronco and it's bigger than I expected, but still livable. A Bronco EREV pickup would be right-sized. I could pare down to just two vehicles then.

There are a few pick-ups in my area too, Ford Ranger seem to be more around and generally they belong to builders.

[jeff113]

Originally Posted by RM7

This tells me you have no freaking idea how much a Model S or 3 weighs.

And I can't find a modern/current F-250 less than 6700lbs or so.

Have you checked yourself for drugs?

I do agree big trucks are the new "7 series iL" for people.

Please don't waste your time arguing with BlkGS. He does not understand how measurements work. I gave up when he insisted the average American man is 6 foot tall.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by jeff113

Please don't waste your time arguing with BlkGS. He does not understand how measurements work. I gave up when he insisted the average American man is 6 foot tall.

Just wow, I'm 6 foot tall and not an American.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

A fully loaded Powerboost F250 platinum super crew is 5100lbs. And they typically have tires that can last 80k miles

TireRack would disagree with you. They have the statistics and reviews.

80K on any vehicle with any set of tires is impossibly rare.

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So, in your world, people shouldn't be allowed to run pickups empty but are allowed to run 5-seat sedans empty? Because of a 5 - 10 MPG difference? What are we all allowed to drive? Do I need to get rid of my BOF Bronco that averages 21 MPG? Just 6 MPG less than my 3,000-pound Z4.

It's also perpetuating the arms race of safety standards for average vehicle size on the road... probably...

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by NSXR

80K on any vehicle with any set of tires is impossibly rare.

To be fair, highway spec tires on tirerack for trucks does show a few reviews that does get beyond the 80k mile marker (looked at the Continental terrain contact AT)But those tires are also specific for highway driving and typically aren’t designed for any other purpose like cornering

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

This tells me you have no freaking idea how much a Model S or 3 weighs.

And I can't find a modern/current F-250 less than 6700lbs or so.

Have you checked yourself for drugs?

I do agree big trucks are the new "7 series iL" for people.

F250 was a typo, should have said 150, hence calling out the Powerboost hybrid motor. 250s are huge with heavy duty frames designed to tow absurdly high loads. To be honest, unless you routinely tow >10k pounds, a 150 is all you'd want because the 250s kinda suck to drive without a couple thousand pounds on their hitch

Teslas aren't the only EVs. Just because they're made of nothing and are fairly light doesn't mean that's repetitive of the market as a whole. Charger EV, 5800lbs. Rivian R1T 7100lbs. VW ID4 4400-5000lbs. BMW iX up to 5800lbs. Silverado EV is up to 9100lbs. Hummer EV 96000lbs. Kia EV7 5800lbs.

These things weigh a crapload. The heaviest weight I can find for an Expedition Max is 5800lbs. Mine is a standard length and was 54xx on the scales at the dump loaded with half a tank of gas, car seats, all our other crap, and my little utility trailer full of palm fronds.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by kyriian

To be fair, highway spec tires on tirerack for trucks does show a few reviews that does get beyond the 80k mile marker (looked at the Continental terrain contact AT)But those tires are also specific for highway driving and typically aren’t designed for any other purpose like cornering

To be fair, that's really all you need in a daily driver truck though. There's no reason out put anything more aggressive than that on a 2.7T F150 you just use as a daily driver and for home Depot runs.

The pirelli scorpion as sport Nero hero whatever the hell they called them on our Expedition are 50k miles warranty tires, on a 22" wheel with a like 40 ratio sidewall. They were on the sporty end of what was available for it. It's also important to note that a 50k warranty tire doesn't mean it will be shot at 50k, that's the minimum they think the tire can get, and they'll pay for a portion of a new set of you don't. A boss I had in NC hit 100k on a set of tires on his 4.7 Tundra (which incidentally looked and drove brand new and had 270k miles on it - I was literally in disbelief when he told me that, it looked like it had maybe 30-40k easy miles on it).

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by NSXR

TireRack would disagree with you. They have the statistics and reviews.

80K on any vehicle with any set of tires is impossibly rare.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...ue=15#allTitle

I dunno if that link will work, but there were 4+ tires for F150s with 18" wheels that had 70k mile tread wear warranties. Continental, Goodyear, Michelin, take your pick. And a Bridgestone with an 80k mile warranty.

The Hankooks that were on my F150 have a 70k warranty. Even the quasi off-road ones are like 60k mile warranties. Not max lifespan, just what they guarantee you to get.

Truck tires last a long ass time if you don't get giant wheels on them (mine had 20s and our expedition has 22s so we in fact did have giant wheels on ours).

Just for funsies, I looked at tires for a 2010 Camry LE, a basic boring AF commuter car and found these.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...autoModClar=LE

90k mile warranty, lol. There's several others with 80-85k mile warranties too. Kinda bummed there wasn't one with a full 100k, lol. Per Google, Hankooks makes an Optima tire that has a 100k mile tread wear warranty, insane.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

...there were 4+ tires for F150s with 18" wheels that had 70k mile tread wear warranties. And a Bridgestone with an 80k mile warranty. The Hankooks that were on my F150 have a 70k warranty. Even the quasi off-road ones are like 60k mile warranties. Not max lifespan, just what they guarantee you to get. 90k mile warranty, lol. There's several others with 80-85k mile warranties too. Kinda bummed there wasn't one with a full 100k, lol. Per Google, Hankooks makes an Optima tire that has a 100k mile tread wear warranty, insane.

The warranty is part of the pitch, but they're very specific about the conditions, and only an extreme few will meet them.

I have to say, if you're a normal driver and have 80K warranty tires then I don't want you on the road with me. Those hockey pucks have no performance whatsoever. It's not about driving skill at that point, it's about performance.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by NSXR

The warranty is part of the pitch, but they're very specific about the conditions, and only an extreme few will meet them.

I have to say, if you're a normal driver and have 80K warranty tires then I don't want you on the road with me. Those hockey pucks have no performance whatsoever. It's not about driving skill at that point, it's about performance.

The kind of people that drive vehicles with those tires aren't exactly pushing their cars. They're just putting miles on, and are probably a lot safer driver than the rest of us.

As far as it being part of a "pitch", disagree. Continental requires you to rotate them every 6-8k (weird that they give you a range for something that they want done before a maximum amount of miles). You get 6 years too. No staggered tires obviously. Not exactly a super rare use case here for people driving a buncha miles per year.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

F250 was a typo, should have said 150, hence calling out the Powerboost hybrid motor. 250s are huge with heavy duty frames designed to tow absurdly high loads. To be honest, unless you routinely tow >10k pounds, a 150 is all you'd want because the 250s kinda suck to drive without a couple thousand pounds on their hitch

Teslas aren't the only EVs. Just because they're made of nothing and are fairly light doesn't mean that's repetitive of the market as a whole. Charger EV, 5800lbs. Rivian R1T 7100lbs. VW ID4 4400-5000lbs. BMW iX up to 5800lbs. Silverado EV is up to 9100lbs. Hummer EV 96000lbs. Kia EV7 5800lbs.

These things weigh a crapload. The heaviest weight I can find for an Expedition Max is 5800lbs. Mine is a standard length and was 54xx on the scales at the dump loaded with half a tank of gas, car seats, all our other crap, and my little utility trailer full of palm fronds.

Given the proliferation of full size trucks on the road, I think this is the biggest nothingburger posted in a long time.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

Given the proliferation of full size trucks on the road, I think this is the biggest nothingburger posted in a long time.

Agreed, just think it's bad when people are like "trucks tear up the road and are dangerous because they're so heavy" then turn around and ignore the exact same things on EVs.

The only difference is EVs don't pay gas taxes to fix the roads. I'm surprised more states have to put EV annual fees on that cover lost gas taxes.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Agreed, just think it's bad when people are like "trucks tear up the road and are dangerous because they're so heavy" then turn around and ignore the exact same things on EVs.

The only difference is EVs don't pay gas taxes to fix the roads. I'm surprised more states have to put EV annual fees on that cover lost gas taxes.

a Model 3 weighs less than a 5 series and a couple hundered pounds more than a 3 series.

and most states figure out ways to get that gas tax money out of EV's by charging more for yearly registration fees

[RM7]

Is there a direct line between infrastructure projects and gas tax?

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

Is there a direct line between infrastructure projects and gas tax?

In theory, gas taxes are supposed to directly fund the DOTs. I can't speak for all states, but in Florida, FDOT gets most of its funds through state has taxes, and the rest from the federal DOT funds from federal gas taxes.

If I told you I thought all states were squeaky clean with their gas tax funds I would be lying.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Socal_R8

a Model 3 weighs less than a 5 series and a couple hundered pounds more than a 3 series.

and most states figure out ways to get that gas tax money out of EV's by charging more for yearly registration fees

A model 3 is also Corolla sized. So it shouldn't weigh as much as a 5. Also, Teslas are by far the lightest EVs, and don't represent the whole market at all.