[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

By changing/replacing perfectly good (albeit to some degree worn) pads with new pads you are doing something that is not a normal service operation.

With the brakes as they came from the factory the pads and rotors have worn as you have used the car. This wear started out with both the pads and rotors with flat friction surfaces and the rotors with not only flat friction surfaces but with surfaces that are smooth, have the proper finish, and are parallel.

One would measure the old (factory) pads, then the new pads, and determine how worn the old pads are.

Then one would measure the rotor thickness to determine how much rotor wear has occurred as the pads have worn.

Then a determination would have to be made that as the new pads wore down would there be a chance the rotors would wear under size before the new pads wore to the point the brake wear warning light was triggered.

Besides the above a determination would have to be made: Do the worn rotors have a sufficiently good surface (flat, free of grooves, etc.) that the new pads would bed in promptly and in doing so not suffer accelerated/uneven wear that would result in an abnormal wear pattern to the pads or rotors.

Yeah, I know roll your eyes. But the above is taking into account factors which could have the brakes wearing out of spec due to fitting new pads with the new thickness and pairing them with rotors that have lost some of their new thickness and have lost some of their flat/smooth/parallel friction surface attributes they had when the car rolled off the assembly line.

Brakes are a safety critical system. The factory pads/rotors are intended to deliver acceptable braking over their lifetime. From Day #1 to Last Day. As a responsible car owner whatever you decide to do to the brakes you must ensure you do not in any way compromise the brakes and their ability to provide acceptable braking. Under any conditions you might encounter.

No eye roll from me. I was asking because I know many have changed their pads to the iSweep 1500 shortly after taking delivery of their cars or after a few hundred miles of ownership. Ideally I would want to change then out as soon as possible. What you say makes sense and if I drove a few 1,000 miles I would think it would best to just wait till new pads or rotors are needed.

[Hypori]

Well I just found a sharp scrap metal through one of my rear tires and it's slowly leaking air, so there's that.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Hypori

Well I just found a sharp scrap metal through one of my rear tires and it's slowly leaking air, so there's that.

Skill issue. YMMV

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

This is a common thought process across many car brands, however, I don't believe it to be true. Most manufacturers have standards/benchmarks for how long their engines (and other drivetrain components) should last. For example the standard on Corvette engines is 250k mi I believe. I would imagine BMW's is similar. If they didn't care if the engine made it to 60k mi, and cars were becoming paperweights as soon as the warranty expired, people would stop buying them. To build a successful brand that's lasted 50 years (M cars), there has to be a high degree of reliability, imo.

Technology improvements in both engine building and oil has reduced the need to change more frequently. Some people still follow procedures from the past, which is completely up to them & their wallets.

Originally Posted by two_three_two

I totally see the point, but just going through the generations of mainstream Ms- you had subframe, vanos, and rod bearings on E46s, you had rod/main bearings (again) on E9X, crank hub and HPFP failure on F8X- theres been no shortage of major issues turning volume M cars into expensive problems or nice looking paperweights over the years. I'd argue that Corvettes have an expectation of reliable, relatively low running cost (for the level of performance provided) operation for many years- whereas most M cars are used and discarded by original owners (the only people who BMW cares about) after warranty expires or shortly thereafter.

Now I do hope, very much so, that the S58 is different (despite an early bearing shell recall, 2021), and I really only bought because this motor seems reliable and well sorted at this point in the production lifecycle, but given a spotty history with volume M powertrains I am still skeptical for the time being. All as a roundabout way to say, I see the point on trusting the engineers who built it, but the beancounters have overridden them many times in the past and will do so again in the future RE: covered maintenance.

I've been looking into C8 Corvettes now that there's plenty of inventory. Ciocca and Macmulkin Corvette have about 100 in stock and are advertising up to $9k off MSRP.

This would be a future track car and the running costs to include maintenance, repair, and catastrophic repair costs are important.

I've been doing research into some wear and tear consumables on the C8:

Genuine front Z51 rotors - ~$190 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...bC12OC1nYXM%3D

Catastrophic power train replacement costs:
Genuine LT2 long block - ~$2,000 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...Y4LWdhcw%3D%3D

This is probably the most expensive powertrain component on the C8 Corvette, but it's still less expensive than a replacement ZF 8HP76:
New 8 speed DCT - ~$9,700 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...YtMmwtdjgtZ2Fz

I think the C8 is going to be a pretty popular and plentiful track car in a few years.

[Ronin76]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

I've been looking into C8 Corvettes now that there's plenty of inventory. Ciocca and Macmulkin Corvette have about 100 in stock and are advertising up to $9k off MSRP.

This would be a future track car and the running costs to include maintenance, repair, and catastrophic repair costs are important.

I've been doing research into some wear and tear consumables on the C8:

Genuine front Z51 rotors - ~$190 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...bC12OC1nYXM%3D

Catastrophic power train replacement costs:
Genuine LT2 long block - ~$2,000 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...Y4LWdhcw%3D%3D

This is probably the most expensive powertrain component on the C8 Corvette, but it's still less expensive than a replacement ZF 8HP76:
New 8 speed DCT - ~$9,700 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...YtMmwtdjgtZ2Fz

I think the C8 is going to be a pretty popular and plentiful track car in a few years.

I thought about the C8 too but needed something for winter driving as well. I know the C8 can be driven in cold climates (wouldn’t drive in the snow) but I would feel like a d!ckhead driving a corvette in the winter lol. Along with the Porsche I think an M2 (of any BMW) fit the bill as all rounders for me. Ashame though as I do like the C8.

[Joker96]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

I've been looking into C8 Corvettes now that there's plenty of inventory. Ciocca and Macmulkin Corvette have about 100 in stock and are advertising up to $9k off MSRP.

This would be a future track car and the running costs to include maintenance, repair, and catastrophic repair costs are important.

I've been doing research into some wear and tear consumables on the C8:

Genuine front Z51 rotors - ~$190 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...bC12OC1nYXM%3D

Catastrophic power train replacement costs:
Genuine LT2 long block - ~$2,000 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...Y4LWdhcw%3D%3D

This is probably the most expensive powertrain component on the C8 Corvette, but it's still less expensive than a replacement ZF 8HP76:
New 8 speed DCT - ~$9,700 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...YtMmwtdjgtZ2Fz

I think the C8 is going to be a pretty popular and plentiful track car in a few years.

Why are the rotors so much cheaper on a C8 than a M2 ? I understand its a chevy but damn....I think the cheapest M2 rotor I've seen is $400. I could be looking in the wrong places.

[Joker96]

Originally Posted by robopp

Interesting that they’re more than OEM from BMW. I’d just go OEM - 50k on mine and still going.

Where are you guys buying parts for this car ? I don't think you can get rotors, brakes, etc for M cars at autozone or your local parts store. I would definitely go OEM if I ever had yo repalce the equipment. When I google M2 rotors Im being shown rotors that are very expensive.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by Joker96

Where are you guys buying parts for this car ? I don't think you can get rotors, brakes, etc for M cars at autozone or your local parts store. I would definitely go OEM if I ever had yo repalce the equipment. When I google M2 rotors Im being shown rotors that are very expensive.

C8 brake rotors are single piece plain steel rotors similar to what you would find on an M240i, about $246 from BMW. The compound cross-drilled multi-piece M2 rotors are a step up from a plain steel rotor. If you go with the carbon brake option on a C8, you are looking at about $1500 for a carbon brake rotor.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

I've been looking into C8 Corvettes now that there's plenty of inventory. Ciocca and Macmulkin Corvette have about 100 in stock and are advertising up to $9k off MSRP.

This would be a future track car and the running costs to include maintenance, repair, and catastrophic repair costs are important.

I've been doing research into some wear and tear consumables on the C8:

Genuine front Z51 rotors - ~$190 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...bC12OC1nYXM%3D

Catastrophic power train replacement costs:
Genuine LT2 long block - ~$2,000 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...Y4LWdhcw%3D%3D

This is probably the most expensive powertrain component on the C8 Corvette, but it's still less expensive than a replacement ZF 8HP76:
New 8 speed DCT - ~$9,700 - https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...YtMmwtdjgtZ2Fz

I think the C8 is going to be a pretty popular and plentiful track car in a few years.

Regular maintenance on the C8 is much more expensive than previous gen Corvettes. The DCT service is expensive & currently only dealers can do it.

Good luck trying to get a new DCT if yours fails also. Cars have been out of commission for months waiting on a new DCT. If you're looking for a dedicated track Corvette a C5 Z06 or C6 is going to be a much better choice than a C8.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by Joker96

Where are you guys buying parts for this car ? I don't think you can get rotors, brakes, etc for M cars at autozone or your local parts store. I would definitely go OEM if I ever had yo repalce the equipment. When I google M2 rotors Im being shown rotors that are very expensive.

www.bmwpartscenter.com, www.getbmwparts.com, and similar sites. These are dealership online parts sites and offer nice discounts. I just ordered a new rear bumper cover from my dealer's online site that was over $200 cheaper than their in-store Parts Dept price.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by Joker96

Where are you guys buying parts for this car ? I don't think you can get rotors, brakes, etc for M cars at autozone or your local parts store. I would definitely go OEM if I ever had yo repalce the equipment. When I google M2 rotors Im being shown rotors that are very expensive.

Dealerships and online part distributors? Like every other manufacturer. Most auto stores don't ever sell OE parts. They might sell OEM-LIKE parts, which are similarly manufactured but NOT manufacturer branded. Again, for like the 10th time, BMW parts, whether original or not, will never, ever be "cheap", and definitely not as cheap as the Mustang you're coming from.

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by xtougher

I've seen multiple places say they won't replace brake pads without replacing the rotors.

I know if you do the work yourself, you can do whatever, but is that the typical recipe for a brake change: to replace pads & rotors together?

That's because the amount of people who walk into shops with the original rotors at 90,000 miles and just want $200 Autozone pads installed is comically high. We have to remember that we're talking about BMW M cars here folks, not a Ford F-150 or a Corolla. These cars use high performance, speciality made parts, and rotors are very much so one of them. The braking system is part of what makes an M car, perform like an M car. If that's something you're not willing to live with, there are plenty of 30i/40i models.

[BroDoze]

They don't call it a BMW Tax for nothin'.. Gotta pay to play.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Ronin76

No eye roll from me. I was asking because I know many have changed their pads to the iSweep 1500 shortly after taking delivery of their cars or after a few hundred miles of ownership. Ideally I would want to change then out as soon as possible. What you say makes sense and if I drove a few 1,000 miles I would think it would best to just wait till new pads or rotors are needed.

For the many you mention almost certainly the pads were changed without confirming the rotors still meet whatever specs BMW calls for. I don't have that info for my M2 but I believe I posted something for the brakes for a 996 Turbo.

Maybe BMW specs are the same? Maybe tighter? Maybe less tight? I don't know.

To do the job *right* if pads are going to be replaced the rotors need to be checked to ensure they conform to whatever BMW calls for.

Sorry to be such a stickler but in a previous career as a journeyman machinist, in some cases working on aircraft and a few times space flight hardware, then in a more recent career working on the software for safety critical rail road train and track controllers adhering to what was called for to ensure proper/safe manufacturing of the hardware and the proper/safe operation of train/track controllers I can't recommend not following what BMW calls for.

But if one can get his hands on the BMW M2 rotor specs and confirm the rotors are in spec even after X miles of service with the factory installed pads that's fine. Or if the rotors are *not* in spec arranging to have them brought into spec -- with surfacing -- that's fine too.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Hypori

Well I just found a sharp scrap metal through one of my rear tires and it's slowly leaking air, so there's that.

That's unfortunate. But not unheard of. I had a slow leak in not one but both of my M2's rear tires. The first incident at 1636 miles then the 2nd incident -- in the other tire -- at 3216 miles.

Fortunately both tires were deemed repairable and repaired and now with over 7500 miles the repaired rear tires are still fine.

Thank goodness. A new rear M2 tires (Michelin...) costs nearly $600 mounted and balanced. And -- short version -- is it is possible that both tires -- the punctured/unrepairable tire and the other perfectly fine tire -- will have to be replaced if the tread depth difference between the new tire and old tire is too great.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

That's unfortunate. But not unheard of. I had a slow leak in not one but both of my M2's rear tires. The first incident at 1636 miles then the 2nd incident -- in the other tire -- at 3216 miles.

Fortunately both tires were deemed repairable and repaired and now with over 7500 miles the repaired rear tires are still fine.

Thank goodness. A new rear M2 tires (Michelin...) costs nearly $600 mounted and balanced. And -- short version -- is it is possible that both tires -- the punctured/unrepairable tire and the other perfectly fine tire -- will have to be replaced if the tread depth difference between the new tire and old tire is too great.

This is why I purchase replacement certificates from Discount Tire for all my vehicles. Cost was $200 total for all 4. If a tire becomes damaged/unrepairable, you get a new tire for the cost a new certificate.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by aerobod

C8 brake rotors are single piece plain steel rotors similar to what you would find on an M240i, about $246 from BMW. The compound cross-drilled multi-piece M2 rotors are a step up from a plain steel rotor. If you go with the carbon brake option on a C8, you are looking at about $1500 for a carbon brake rotor.

Are they necessary though? Are the single piece plain steel rotors failing at the track?

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Regular maintenance on the C8 is much more expensive than previous gen Corvettes. The DCT service is expensive & currently only dealers can do it.

Good luck trying to get a new DCT if yours fails also. Cars have been out of commission for months waiting on a new DCT. If you're looking for a dedicated track Corvette a C5 Z06 or C6 is going to be a much better choice than a C8.

Regular maintenance on a domestic vehicle is still significantly less than a European car. Plenty of experience with this here...

Are you sure there is still a delay on a new DCT?

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Are they necessary though? Are the single piece plain steel rotors failing at the track?



Regular maintenance on a domestic vehicle is still significantly less than a European car. Plenty of experience with this here...

Are you sure there is still a delay on a new DCT?

The C8 is different, primarily due to the DCT. New vehicles are all fairly similar when it comes to regular maintenance costs. At least BMW gives you free maintenance for 3/36. On the C8 you get one free maintenance visit that must be used in the first 2 years.

The DCT is still having issues. A new owner just posted about his brand new Stingray back at the dealer with 250 mi with multiple transmission fault codes. There's no reason they should be having these issues going into the 6th model year. Also consider the horrible GM dealership & service experience. I've never let a Chevy dealer work on my Z06, and I wouldn't touch a C8 even if you gave it to me.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

The C8 is different, primarily due to the DCT. New vehicles are all fairly similar when it comes to regular maintenance costs. At least BMW gives you free maintenance for 3/36. On the C8 you get one free maintenance visit that must be used in the first 2 years.

The DCT is still having issues. A new owner just posted about his brand new Stingray back at the dealer with 250 mi with multiple transmission fault codes. There's no reason they should be having these issues going into the 6th model year. Also consider the horrible GM dealership & service experience. I've never let a Chevy dealer work on my Z06, and I wouldn't touch a C8 even if you gave it to me.

Have you ever replaced an out of warranty late model BMW engine? I have...

I won't do it again though. My N55 self ventilated and took out the steering rack in the process at VIR. It has had a ZF 8HP45 replacement under the extended warranty.

When you track cars, engines, transmissions, etc. are all consumables. You need to factor in the cost to replace these major end items out of warranty.

Regular maintenance costs are nothing compared to catastrophic repair/replacement costs.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Have you ever replaced an out of warranty late model BMW engine? I have...

I won't do it again though. My N55 self ventilated and took out the steering rack in the process at VIR. It has had a ZF 8HP45 replacement under the extended warranty.

When you track cars, engines, transmissions, etc. are all consumables. You need to factor in the cost to replace these major end items out of warranty.

Regular maintenance costs are nothing compared to catastrophic repair/replacement costs.

No I haven't. I've been fortunate with the 40+ vehicles I've owned, only one major issue. That was covered under warranty (new engine) after getting the State Attorney involved. I also don't track my vehicles. The bold is why I wouldn't opt for the C8 compared to older gen Corvettes, if you want a Corvette for the track. Did see a bill for C8 DCT replacement not covered by warranty, and it was close to $20k.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

No I haven't. I've been fortunate with the 40+ vehicles I've owned, only one major issue. That was covered under warranty (new engine) after getting the State Attorney involved. I also don't track my vehicles. The bold is why I wouldn't opt for the C8 compared to older gen Corvettes, if you want a Corvette for the track. Did see a bill for C8 DCT replacement not covered by warranty, and it was close to $20k.

I prefer to track a vehicle that is still currently in production.

$20k seems to be on the high end but it is not nearly as bad as a S58 replacement which would likely cost anywhere from $30-40k:

https://g87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2069318

The interesting thing is that the C7 LT2 replacement cost ($8,146) is significantly higher than a C8 LT2 replacement (~$2,000):

https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...Y4LWdhcw%3D%3D

If you look at the last few pages, you'll see that a G8X vehicle is worth almost nothing with a catastrophic powertrain failure.

Vehicles that have such a high powertrain replacement cost concern me.

[xtougher]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

That's because the amount of people who walk into shops with the original rotors at 90,000 miles and just want $200 Autozone pads installed is comically high. We have to remember that we're talking about BMW M cars here folks, not a Ford F-150 or a Corolla. These cars use high performance, speciality made parts, and rotors are very much so one of them. The braking system is part of what makes an M car, perform like an M car. If that's something you're not willing to live with, there are plenty of 30i/40i models.

Yeah, mostly curious. I was told that even with my previous car, which was a 2016 340i.

Even called some random shops around me and even they said they would change rotors with the pads...couldn't tell if that was just an upsell tactic, or a general rule these days.