[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

absolutely agreed. the worst part about my G87 is the tech, hands down. i've come to pretty actively despise iDrive and virtual climate control. if the G84 is more of this, then its a pretty safe bet my next daily driver might be either backwards looking (F chassis) or simply a different make even if it offers a manual - hopefully one that figured out that most enthusiast buyers prefer simplicity over a dystopian tech gangbang.

still, i keep my fingers crossed they find a way to shoehorn a manual in there to keep people aspiring for halo MT cars and keep giving new and younger enthusiasts a reason to engage with their cars more, even if i do not end up as a buyer.

I've filled out a handful of surveys from BMW in the last year, but with only purchasing $200k-worth of their vehicles since June 2022, my opinion probably doesn't hold that much weight

Something I've found really interesting lately, as you mention younger enthusiasts; I have two high-schoolers at home (son & daughter), and the number of their friends, both male & female that come over to ask for rides in my Z06 baffles me. None of them care about my M2 I've overheard them tell my kids "man a Corvette is my dream car" which is strange in today's world.

Just had both at a cars & coffee and the M2 got very little attention, and really only from other BMW owners. Weird. :

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I've filled out a handful of surveys from BMW in the last year, but with only purchasing $200k-worth of their vehicles since June 2022, my opinion probably doesn't hold that much weight

Something I've found really interesting lately, as you mention younger enthusiasts; I have two high-schoolers at home (son & daughter), and the number of their friends, both male & female that come over to ask for rides in my Z06 baffles me. None of them care about my M2 I've overheard them tell my kids "man a Corvette is my dream car" which is strange in today's world.

Just had both at a cars & coffee and the M2 got very little attention, and really only from other BMW owners. Weird. :

im not quite sure who, if anyone, they listen to; other than their accountants. dollars go up, margin go up; good. customer feedback, right into the cylindrical filing cabinet. such is life...

RE attention, some of it is regional... i'd imagine in texas corvettes hang on more bedroom walls than anything else. we're very close to a mid sized private college and i frequently stop by their car shows; the M2 gets plenty of attention, questions and pictures. this is likely in spite of the owner, not because of him lol

[MonkeyDLuffy]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I've filled out a handful of surveys from BMW in the last year, but with only purchasing $200k-worth of their vehicles since June 2022, my opinion probably doesn't hold that much weight

Something I've found really interesting lately, as you mention younger enthusiasts; I have two high-schoolers at home (son & daughter), and the number of their friends, both male & female that come over to ask for rides in my Z06 baffles me. None of them care about my M2 I've overheard them tell my kids "man a Corvette is my dream car" which is strange in today's world.

Just had both at a cars & coffee and the M2 got very little attention, and really only from other BMW owners. Weird. :

My M2 gets 10x the compliments vs stock after adding verus aerokit and some BBS wheels. The c6z just looks perfect the way it is, here's mine

[JK479]

Originally Posted by G MONEY

It will never happen. Unfortunately!!! Always hoped the GTR would have come with a manual but AWD high power cars will never be available

If it was a 5,000.00 option would you select a slower manual transmission? I’m sure that sort of talk was instigated when they developed xdrive for the m2. Sure we would say yes- but then only 5 percent of us who said yes would follow through.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy

My M2 gets 10x the compliments vs stock after adding verus aerokit and some BBS wheels. The c6z just looks perfect the way it is, here's mine

Nice! I'm not saying my M2 doesn't get compliments, it does, it just doesn't stand out like other performance cars - at least in my areas that are rife with them.

[Good 4 2 reasons]

The M2 is always going to get the short end of the options stick being assembled in SLP. For a low volume vehicle relative to other models, each unique powertrain, interior, and body component they build for the M2 has to be assembled, shipped or warehoused in Mexico. European emissions, safety, and efficiency standards have basically killed off the manual transmission in Europe, so that generally leaves only the United States buying manual luxury vehicles. ZF produces the DCTs, PDKs, manuals, and autos for BMW and Porsche both, so ZF has little incentive to create a new manual when they get the sale either way.

Everyone likes DCTs on paper, but with the exception of Porsche, I do not think the majority (not the folks on this forum) of BMW owners would trade the reliability of ZF torque converter autos for a DCT. DCTs are largely used today for packaging requirements on front transverse, rear, or mid engine vehicles.

[jeff5557]

That’s 2 yrs out. Wouldn’t hold my breath in these crazy supply, economic times.

[dreamworks]

Originally Posted by Good 4 2 reasons

The M2 is always going to get the short end of the options stick being assembled in SLP. For a low volume vehicle relative to other models, each unique powertrain, interior, and body component they build for the M2 has to be assembled, shipped or warehoused in Mexico. European emissions, safety, and efficiency standards have basically killed off the manual transmission in Europe, so that generally leaves only the United States buying manual luxury vehicles. ZF produces the DCTs, PDKs, manuals, and autos for BMW and Porsche both, so ZF has little incentive to create a new manual when they get the sale either way.

Everyone likes DCTs on paper, but with the exception of Porsche, I do not think the majority (not the folks on this forum) of BMW owners would trade the reliability of ZF torque converter autos for a DCT. DCTs are largely used today for packaging requirements on front transverse, rear, or mid engine vehicles.

As I mentioned earlier, don't think a new manual is needed as long as the same 406 lb-ft S58 is paired to the existing 6MT plus x-drive. BMW itself has admitted to this:

"Is there an engineering reason why the manual transmission isn't available on the AWD model?

No. The BMW M3 and M4 are designed to be a puristic and weight-optimized configuration. So we didn't see a merit in adding the heavier, rather complex M xDrive system to the manual."

I would gladly pay $10,000 more for such a configuration, ideally in a G80.

[Good 4 2 reasons]

Originally Posted by dreamworks

As I mentioned earlier, don't think a new manual is needed as long as the same 406 lb-ft S58 is paired to the existing 6MT plus x-drive. BMW itself has admitted to this:

"Is there an engineering reason why the manual transmission isn't available on the AWD model?

No. The BMW M3 and M4 are designed to be a puristic and weight-optimized configuration. So we didn't see a merit in adding the heavier, rather complex M xDrive system to the manual."

I would gladly pay $10,000 more for such a configuration, ideally in a G80.

Looking at the 6 MT in E chassis with x-drive, the rear half of the transmission casting is completely different from RWD. I can't speak to engine casting differences, front axle differences, etc from prior generations, but it increases part complexity significantly, even if the engineering aspect is already solved.

[aerobod]

Bearing in mind that a manual xDrive car would have the worst fuel economy of the variants and the EU has brought in strict fuel economy rules that are tightening by the year, BMW wants to ensure more efficient vehicles are sold there. Combine this with the tendency away from manuals in Europe for sporting cars (only 14 of the 105 used F87 & G87s for sale on BMW.co.uk are manuals), then the market becomes quite small.

Each driveline variant also needs emission testing certification in at least the EU and US, just the certification process to file the paperwork with the EPA in the US is around $40,000 per variant. The driveline also needs to be engineered and tested, especially wrt NVH. There are also marketing, website, configurator, production line and parts supplier changes required.

I would think only a few percent (certainly no more than single digits) of G87 buyers worldwide would take a manual xDrive. Most of the world that takes 2/3 or so of production is likely about 85% automatics now, even though the 1/3 of production sold in North America is closer to 50/50.

From an increased revenue perspective, BMW likely doesn’t see any opportunity to cover the costs of bringing in such a variant.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by JK479

If it was a 5,000.00 option would you select a slower manual transmission? I’m sure that sort of talk was instigated when they developed xdrive for the m2. Sure we would say yes- but then only 5 percent of us who said yes would follow through.

I could care less about manual. Means nothing to me. Love a DCT car and plan to keep the ones I have for a long time. Just sucked it cost over 20 G’s to build the GTR one to handle the power seems like the ZF are going to be a lot cheaper to build for the people making real power. That’s a GREAT thing

[87M3]

Isn't BMW making enough money to produce a manual in the CS or Xdrive halo models like the 911 gt3 or T? Even if it only breaks even, from a business and buzz perspective, I think it would be a homerun.

[hb]

Originally Posted by Tag

G87 M2 M xDrive will have a three year production run from August 2026 through July 2029.

Just like the upcoming M2 CS it will only be offered with an automatic transmission likely due to the power output being more than BMW is willing to warranty with the manual transmission.

Source: ynguldyn Future BMW model information

That end date might change.

[hb]

Originally Posted by GaoKS

Wonder what power figures by then will be.

520-530 hp

[hb]

Originally Posted by CryptoM2

But will it have optional CCBs? Will San Luis bring the full individual program online in time for end of life cycle?

I hope so because I need Sepang Bronze or an Orinoco xdrive w/ CCBs in my life!

Don't expect a full BMW Individual program

[hb]

Originally Posted by 87M3

Isn't BMW making enough money to produce a manual in the CS or Xdrive halo models like the 911 gt3 or T? Even if it only breaks even, from a business and buzz perspective, I think it would be a homerun.

All I can tell you this for now: BMW won't let the M2 go away without a bang.

[rowenofpts]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

Those days are over

Only total morons shop at stealerships

Wait what’s the alternative? 😭

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

What does a DCT do that you can't do with a modern ZF 8HP auto?

The modem ZF all the way back to the 6 speed ZF 6HP in an E90 has proven to be one hell of a box. Total lock up and low rpm, engine braking, rev matching, super fast shifts, no lift shifting, etc.

Not only does it do what a DCT can do but you can change shift speed from a snap your neck fast to a lazy luxury car feel.

The ZF killed the DCT.

Yup - I love my ZF8. Great transmission.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Tag

G87 M2 M xDrive will have a three year production run from August 2026 through July 2029.

Just like the upcoming M2 CS it will only be offered with an automatic transmission likely due to the power output being more than BMW is willing to warranty with the manual transmission.

Source: ynguldyn Future BMW model information

This is great news & it's about damn time they build this. Really surprised BMW didn't step up to the plate a little sooner. Did the G80 guy shave to wait this long for their AWD M3's... ?

Originally Posted by DrewNewM2

Cool but I mean they could develop a new manual. Wtf BMW?

XDrive manual would have a high take rate and you could charge us more!!

You make absolutely no sense here with that comment Drew. Do you ever think about the things you want to say before muttering them to the world... ? You can have a RWD manual car or an absolute rocket ship AWD monster with a beefy but slick auto. You can't have both. Class is currently in session & you need to pay better attention to the lessons being taught bud.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by hb

All I can tell you this for now: BMW won't let the M2 go away without a bang.

They don't seem to be letting them go with allocations being so scarce.

[ajchoi]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Nice! I'm not saying my M2 doesn't get compliments, it does, it just doesn't stand out like other performance cars - at least in my areas that are rife with them.

My ZB M2 gets exponentially more attention than any other car I’ve owned but I’m almost positive most of that is the color. People ask me if it’s wrapped all the time. Random young adults stop and take pictures of the car often times if it’s parked in public.

[NotSoSure]

Originally Posted by hb

520-530 hp

If the X drive is gettting 520 - 530 bhp, then what's the point of the CS at 525?

The CS is looking more pointless by the day...