[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Bottom line, agreed. It is difficult to draw a conclusion or make an adequate inference, in situations like those. Especially when context is so easily taken literally, or out of the proper perspective.

I think that the image is also a determining factor. Blacks are not cleaning up their perception by taking positive steps forward. Period. We do not need to march when a white cop kills a black man, or cry out in agony for the injustice or whatever the label is.

We need to march when two black men get into a fight, one pulls out a pistol, and blows the others' brains out. THAT is preventable. That can incite a changed image which can overflow/waterfall into our law enforcement for the mentalities to change.

I am far from ignorant to what is happening, as I have been labeled by others in this thread, but I also know when to look in the mirror for the problem.

This is the right cause to get behind. This would lead to change.

It's difficult for the rest of the world to take notice and join the cause when such little value seems to be placed on each other so long as the departed wasn't killed by a cop or a white person.

Education is key as well. When people can't express themselves effectively, they are far more likely to turn to violence to make a point or statement. This is not a race thing either, all cultures have uneducated people and those are the ones who make a bad name for the rest.

[jgoens]

Nice hot thread going here. Keep in mind, we are seeing in both vids the aftermath of what happened. I would like to see the initial encounter..always telling as to why the cops reacted. As Mr Tonka said, if you make the cops job easier and put at ease things go well. Not saying it's right at all people who may be innocent getting killed, but what led to it. Police stop and confront how many people a day?
The cops have partial control of the guy in red, but then pull out their guns. Why? Because he was reaching for his gun? Why did the cops throw him on the ground in the first place and when you get tossed like that don't you just stay put? This is a snowball effect we are seeing--people are becoming more defiant to the cops and they are becoming more aggressive.
As for the guy in the car, I still think we need the beforehand evidence before complete judgement in made here. We see him shot, but what led to that. Does he have a record and says he has a gun and when the officer says don't move he starts fumbling around? As far as I'm concerned still need answers.

[Mr Tonka]

I didn't watch the first video, because i know that there was someone who wasn't complying with police officer's orders. If they had, that guy would be alive today.

The MN one resonates MUCH more because he was actually doing something considered to be normal during that interaction. I hope there is police footage that exposes more of what happened prior to shooting.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

As for someone coming into your home, that's completely out of context, 100%. Common sense, criminal broke into your house, you have rights, a lot more inside your home. Too much to discuss and would derail the thread into a different argument, but it doesn't apply in relation to this.

Agreed. Don't even know why it was even brought up.

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

This is the right cause to get behind. This would lead to change.

It's difficult for the rest of the world to take notice and join the cause when such little value seems to be placed on each other so long as the departed wasn't killed by a cop or a white person.

Education is key as well. When people can't express themselves effectively, they are far more likely to turn to violence to make a point or statement. This is not a race thing either, all cultures have uneducated people and those are the ones who make a bad name for the rest.

This goes straight back to Baltimore. The city literally burned for the entire night in response to a decision that people felt was unjust. And what did law enforcement do in response to the ignorance? Silent, steadfast monitoring and resistance. Not a single bullet was fired.

Of course, the city was destroyed on an absolutely ridiculous premise, and it fueled the notion of ignorance that generally surrounds black people. So when black leaders and those in power gather together to speak on issues such as theses and to rally individuals in a positive manner, I think that is the best thing they can reasonably do given the scenario.

However, I'm seeing an increasingly disturbing calling for blood, from an increasing number of blacks who are tired of taking a so-called "peaceful" approach. That's what actually frustrates me the most, because if things to transition toward a real-life "purge" between law enforcement and citizens, then legalities will have to change and the situation will literally be bad for everyone involved. That's all I'm seeing right now.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I didn't watch the first video, because i know that there was someone who wasn't complying with police officer's orders. If they had, that guy would be alive today.

The MN one resonates MUCH more because he was actually doing something considered to be normal during that interaction. I hope there is police footage that exposes more of what happened prior to shooting.

Both men died, for the record.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Both men died, for the record.

And the world is a worse place for it?

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Agreed. Don't even know why it was even brought up.



This goes straight back to Baltimore. The city literally burned for the entire night in response to a decision that people felt was unjust. And what did law enforcement do in response to the ignorance? Silent, steadfast monitoring and resistance. Not a single bullet was fired.

Of course, the city was destroyed on an absolutely ridiculous premise, and it fueled the notion of ignorance that generally surrounds black people. So when black leaders and those in power gather together to speak on issues such as theses and to rally individuals in a positive manner, I think that is the best thing they can reasonably do given the scenario.

However, I'm seeing an increasingly disturbing calling for blood, from an increasing number of blacks who are tired of taking a so-called "peaceful" approach. That's what actually frustrates me the most, because if things to transition toward a real-life "purge" between law enforcement and citizens, then legalities will have to change and the situation will literally be bad for everyone involved. That's all I'm seeing right now.

I'm still upset about how law enforcement seemed to just stand aside and let lawlessness prevail. Talk about sending the wrong message.

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Both men died, for the record.

Yes, both needlessly. One directly due to decisions he made. The other is not so clear.

[John Tanglewood]

Originally Posted by grimlock

And the world is a worse place for it?

What does that even mean man?

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I didn't watch the first video, because i know that there was someone who wasn't complying with police officer's orders. If they had, that guy would be alive today.

The MN one resonates MUCH more because he was actually doing something considered to be normal during that interaction. I hope there is police footage that exposes more of what happened prior to shooting.

I'm disgusted by the MN incident, this is the kind of stuff that sets people on fire.
For me, having lost friends in the military and conducting ret missions immediately afterward did little to make things right, my buddies were still gone.
Just as this man is gone.

If the situation was anywhere like we are led to believe based on that small footage. That is appalling.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by John Tanglewood

What does that even mean man?

Don't feed the troll dude, he's a fucking idiot.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by John Tanglewood

What does that even mean man?

if you leach value from society, why should society tolerate or accept you?

even criminals will attack child rapists in prison..

talking about the do-bad-things-accept-bad-results.. not talking about race to be clear.

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by grimlock

And the world is a worse place for it?

Obviously just trolling.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Verbiage

Don't feed the troll dude, he's a fucking idiot.

don't get mad cuz you can't comprehend morals

[IndotagSwizz]

the racial undertones in this thread hidden under "you must comply" are not surprising.
I guess from now on we should all live by the same rules then, I ask you to comply with something, you don't, I go get my gun and empty the clip on you, problem solved specially if later we find out you had a criminal record.... like Chapelle used to say on his show "let's just sprinkle some crack on him and get the f#ck outta here"

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I'm still upset about how law enforcement seemed to just stand aside and let lawlessness prevail. Talk about sending the wrong message.

Yes, both needlessly. One directly due to decisions he made. The other is not so clear.

I believe it was a very delicate situation. I'm not sure how else it would have been taken care of other than gunning down people to set an example, and stop the rage across the city. Or, containing the raging to the hood, from whence it originated. There were thousands of people involved in a short amount of time, including children.

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

I'm disgusted by the MN incident, this is the kind of stuff that sets people on fire.
For me, having lost friends in the military and conducting ret missions immediately afterward did little to make things right, my buddies were still gone.
Just as this man is gone.

If the situation was anywhere like we are led to believe based on that small footage. That is appalling.

Absolutely. It seems as though the woman instinctively began to film after the boyfriend had been shot, so unless that officer's body cam also fell off, I'm not sure what other visual proof there would be of prior events.

[PJinCA]

Originally Posted by grimlock

And the world is a worse place for it?

This is a moronic comment. Did either man deserve to die? Probably not. I agree the one in MN was way worse. That guy should have the NRA leading the way in his defense. By all accounts (so far) he was an upstanding citizen, no priors, and beloved in his community. This was no "thug". He also was complying with the officer's orders, dutifully informed him of both the fact that he had a gun on him, and that he was licensed to carry concealed. So where if the NRA on this one? That man was killed because he had LEGALLY obtained and carried firearm.

[grimlock]

To all the brothers in this thread, don't let verbiage race-bait you into accepting a lack of morals or law-abiding is ok.

That's all my message is. Out.

[Verbiage]

Originally Posted by grimlock

To all the brothers in this thread, don't let verbiage race-bait you into accepting a lack of morals or law-abiding is ok.

That's all my message is. Out.

Since this is apparently your last message, I'll respond to it.

I just started this discussion to gain some opinions on the situations that have taken place this week. We have folks who are experienced with law enforcement, folks who can legally carry firearms and who are knowledgeable of the laws, and we have African Americans here who are also entitled to their own opinions, which may differ from mine. That is fine.

But one thing I cannot and will not tolerate is a troll that operates seemingly aimlessly and senselessly, ignorantly spewing bullshit filler in a place where I am genuinely trying to gauge points of view on an ongoing issue that has plagued society for quite some time.

With that said, I'd be more than happy with your permanent exit from this thread.

Mods, I apologize for the rant and do not close this thread. But I had to get this off of my chest.


Thanks.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

I'm disgusted by the MN incident, this is the kind of stuff that sets people on fire.
For me, having lost friends in the military and conducting ret missions immediately afterward did little to make things right, my buddies were still gone.
Just as this man is gone.

If the situation was anywhere like we are led to believe based on that small footage. That is appalling.

I agree.

But sadly, the situation is seldom like what we are led to believe.

I'm a little confused by the level of calmness the MN passenger has. I mean, if that were me, my first inclination would not be to start video recording anything.

To quote Peter's uncle Ben, with great power comes great responsibility. Just because you have a CCP and are carrying a gun doesn't mean you're not required to obey officer's commands. It doesn't make us equals to the cops, etc... Because i'm carrying, i know that any interaction i have with police is very different. There is always a chance of misreading my actions or intentions. So i bear that responsibly wisely by having a plan for police interactions. The only reason i told the cop at my parents house that i was carrying was because he was going to walk behind me as i cleared the rooms and checked for locked windows. I know that as i reached up for windows my firearm would be visible through my shirt and at the very lest my holster would be visible under my shirt tail as i reached up. If he said Ok, i'm outa here. I wouldn't have had reason to tell him. Maybe i'm different but i run through the what if's very often and very quickly on a daily basis depending on what situation i'm in.

I'm not saying this person was at fault, but for the most part, cops don't go around shooting people for fun. There is more to the explanation and hopefully it will come out either in audio or video from the police.

[IndotagSwizz]

Originally Posted by grimlock

To all the brothers in this thread, don't let verbiage race-bait you into accepting a lack of morals or law-abiding is ok.

That's all my message is. Out.

Lack of morals is shooting somebody SIX TIMES so that they never get to tell their side of the story.

[ASBSECU E93]

My .02....

I grew up with and around LEO's. This is a thankless job where the officer is at risk every second on the job. I have a very healthy respect for each person who decides to walk this path as a career. That said...

The loss of any life is tragic. The senseless loss of life only compounds to the sorrow and anger triggered from this tragedy.

The videos are damming evidence for sure, especially the MN victim, but we do not yet know the events that led to what we see.

Any time you resist and do not FULLY comply - a LEO can and will use aggressive force to restrain a suspect until they are compliant. Right and wrong - Instances and exchanges like this open the door to tragedy.

[SpacegrayMe90]

As a Caucasian man perspective, what make this dude depicted in the photo any different from the African american fella that was gunned down in Minnesota?

"One of the deepest of photos I've seen this year. Taken at a Confederate Rally in Stone Mountain. Here, we see the police give a white man with his hand on his gun unending patience".

So let me ask you this, is re training of officers really the answer? Racial divide and mistrust is alive and well.