[Poochie]

Originally Posted by timmahh

What about relay car thefts? The traditional key fob has weaknesses (which are now being addressed of course).

I'm not sure if it works similarly but my Bank of America debit card works in tandem with my phones's GPS, to know where I am, at times of usage.

For instance, if I'm in NY and the card is being used in CA, the banks knows I'm not close to the card, based on geofencing and alerts me of possible fraud.

I'm assuming vehicle security system would operate similarly, to prevent possible misuse or auto theft.

[LogicalApex]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I'm not sure if it works similarly but my Bank of America debit card works in tandem with my phones's GPS, to know where I am, at times of usage.

For instance, if I'm in NY and the card is being used in CA, the banks knows I'm not close to the card, based on geofencing and alerts me of possible fraud.

I'm assuming vehicle security system would operate similarly, to prevent possible misuse or auto theft.

Yikes. That sounds like a privacy nightmare.

But in this context this wouldn't be a solution since a relay attack would initiate with your car close to the phone.

My guess is V3 requires Apple's U1 chip to take advantage of the technology they added to accurately determine where in 3D space two objects are (when they unveiled this feature they marketed as a way to accurately airdrop just by pointing your phone due to the distance measuring capacity of UWB).

Although that is a great feature it will need to be determined how guarded it is against a relay attack where an attacker makes both devices appear closer to each other by boosting or otherwise manipulating the signal in the middle.

For the key fob the solution was to just turn it off when movement isn't detected. I can't say if it will be that easy here.

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by PBJ

Precisely this! Looks like BMW are retreating back to old planned obsolescence habits. Lack of innovation always stifles a company's future.

Think of all the Tesla's sold worldwide that would have otherwise been BMW/Merc/Audi etc sales had they not existed. In years to come, Tesla will continue to grow and the incumbents lose market share due to their old ways.

What's the best way for us all to collectively or individually give feedback to BMW? Enough so they actually do something about it!

I dunno, buy a Tesla?

[Sergeant Skinner]

Originally Posted by MFNATIK

I dunno, buy a Tesla?

Hahaha, I still think they wouldn't listen

[timmahh]

My point with the relay attack is that the digital key won't suffer from it, unlike traditional FOBs, it was as a counter to someone saying the digital car key is pointless.

[khoa@x-ph.com]

Cool new features.

[MFNATIK]

Originally Posted by PBJ

Hahaha, I still think they wouldn't listen

They've noticed. Hence all of a sudden they started imitating some of the tech features. They are a bit behind but Tesla has them paying attention. Once the Model Y starts stealing all their small SUV sales then BMW is gonna be in a lot of hurt. Model 3 sales have stolen a ton of 3 series sales. I mean, I could be in a new BMW 3 series right now but I picked up a Model 3 instead.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I'm not sure if it works similarly but my Bank of America debit card works in tandem with my phones's GPS, to know where I am, at times of usage.

For instance, if I'm in NY and the card is being used in CA, the banks knows I'm not close to the card, based on geofencing and alerts me of possible fraud.

I'm assuming vehicle security system would operate similarly, to prevent possible misuse or auto theft.

iOS 14 will have "Approximate Location" that apps will determine your location approximately by a 10 square miles in size.

The current android BMW digital key works via NFC, with the new approximate location no way that GPS will be used for precise location- NFC and U1 chip.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20...0-square-miles

[srbs73]

At least with these new BMW keys, they turn off after 3 minutes of being stationary. Won’t stop all attacks but an improvement.

[havenyoung]

I guess no more speculation:

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...s-new-services

5. BMW Digital Key for iPhone.

BMW is the first car manufacturer to enable its customers to use their iPhone as a fully digital car key. The digital key from BMW is stored on a chip in the iPhone as a so-called secure element and communicates with the vehicle using NFC technology. It was developed according to the standards of the Car Connectivity Consortium (CCC), to which both Apple and BMW belong.

Not only does the digital key make it possible to open and close the car without a physical key, the car can also be started via iPhone. The customer furthermore has the option of sharing the key with up to five users quickly and easily via smartphone. This technology can even regulate the vehicle’s use: for example, if the key is shared with an inexperienced or young driver, the owner of the master key can set limits for speed, power (HP) and radio volume. The digital key can also manage several vehicles simultaneously. The NFC hardware required for the digital key is available for vehicles produced from July 2020.

[ihbase]

Applicability may be an issue of licensing and not technology. If so, the restraint on application to other models and the restraint on retroactivity to cars built prior to a certain date may be in the agreement between BMW and Apple.

Just a guess.

But then, considering the fact that BMW has jumped the shark, I have no idea why anyone is looking for another way to enter a new BMW (M2 excepted). So what do I know.

-Michael

[Ibiza]

Bumping this thread back up, as with Apple announcing the new Apple Watch Series 6 yesterday (9/15/2020), the U1 chip is present in the series 6 watch. No need to take your iPhone out of your pocket or even have your iPhone, just use the series 6 watch to open the door and drive off.

https://www.carandbike.com/news/appl...iphone-2296236

I pre-ordered the Hermès Series 6, but will not be able to use until I take delivery early next year of a 2021 X5M comp. I will also be ordering the new M4 vert when available latter in 2021, should be interesting how the Apple iPhone digital key works with two BMW’s.

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

I pre-ordered the Hermès Series 6, but will not be able to use until I take delivery early next year of a 2021 X5M comp. I will also be ordering the new M4 vert when available latter in 2021, should be interesting how the Apple iPhone digital key works with two BMW’s.

assuming BMW implements UWB for MY2021 models.

and for two cars, Apple can easily implement two keys in the Wallet app.

[DBV1]

That would be nice not to take your phone or watch out and assume it could use proximity locator too. I like BMW Key so far on my 2021 5 Series.