[CarsAndGuitars]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

It's hard to debate with someone who can't even use the word, "YOU'RE" correctly. It's you're not your. Idk, it's one of my pet peeves.

Thing is, you actually don't have an argument here. You're running around circles off scenarios and your own thoughts that have nothing to do with what i'm saying. You're typing so much to distract others who are reading into thinking you have something here. And even if you did, everyone else posting is anti-ev so it doesn't even matter if you are right or wrong, they'll all say, "yes sir!!" to you at anything you say.

I'll keep it simple. A simple one shot deal to end your argument.

So the gas ban is 2035 correct? Or so they say? Some car makers are suggesting even as early as 2030 that their fleet will consist of at least 50% EV's right? That part is clear.

How many car makers are ditching of even going hybrid and going straight to EV? Lotus? Ferrari? lambo? You're talking about hybrid but what year are you looking at? Next year?

Use the years 2030-2035 and show me where i am wrong.

There will be a gigantic swing of EV vs ICE on the road when you project how the car world is shifting given the mandates and the moves (goals) each car maker has.

In terms of performance. EV has already arrived. A fucking 4 door 140k car is destroying everything in sight. We live in america. It's about 0-60, HP and straight line speed. So you can save your track talk for another time. Because when it comes to these metrics, THAT IS WHAT'S GOING TO SELL THE CAR. Hence it's success.

The ev hummer, sold out instantly. The lightning, sold out instantly. When the plaid first rolled out, people couldn't even get one. They had to wait a year. People are STILL WAITING a year, to get a 4 door plaid. About the same time people are waiting for 85k M3/M4's.

The desire and interest has shifted towards this EV movement.

The only way my argument is toast, is when we all wake up one morning, go on the interwebzzzzz and read, "EV is BEING PUSHED BACK, mandates are now 2050. The WORLD IS NOT READY for an EV push".

Until the above happens, there's really nothing you can say that has your argument valid. You're just saying a bunch of stuff to make it sound good to those reading so they can be like, "yeah man!! You really told BGM!!".

Because quite frankly, i am still killing this debate.

..or we have different leadership with a different agenda and a pen in hand in 2 years. Poof, just like that.

The only thing YOU'RE killing is time

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

The only way my argument is toast, is when we all wake up one morning, go on the interwebzzzzz and read, "EV is BEING PUSHED BACK, mandates are now 2050. The WORLD IS NOT READY for an EV push".

Quoting because this is exactly what will happen, it will be easier for me to find it that way.

The desire and interest has shifted towards this EV movement.

Interest, desire, and growth of the segment is for basic commuters. AKA cars that suck. There is a projection that US annual EV sales will be 3 million in ~5 years. Those won't be Plaids. They will be econo boxes. Tesla is losing market share quickly even as volume increases. Space daddy has a huge problem on his hands.

There is a reason Plaid is currently the EV king, it's because so few other cars are targeted to meat-heads that only care about straight line speed. Even Tesla sells only a few of them in comparison to their other more boring cars. The ratio is like 1:25. I could buy a plaid today if I wanted one there are several in stock just an hour away and ready to pickup today. They are in stock all over the country. That has been true where I live for almost 2 years.

How many car makers are ditching of even going hybrid and going straight to EV?

Cadillac says they will be 100% EV by 2026, Genesis says 2025. There are others, I won't bother looking them all up. They are busy painting themselves into a corner.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

It's hard to debate with someone who can't even use the word, "YOU'RE" correctly. It's you're not your. Idk, it's one of my pet peeves.

Thing is, you actually don't have an argument here. You're running around circles off scenarios and your own thoughts that have nothing to do with what i'm saying. You're typing so much to distract others who are reading into thinking you have something here. And even if you did, everyone else posting is anti-ev so it doesn't even matter if you are right or wrong, they'll all say, "yes sir!!" to you at anything you say.

I'll keep it simple. A simple one shot deal to end your argument.

So the gas ban is 2035 correct? Or so they say? Some car makers are suggesting even as early as 2030 that their fleet will consist of at least 50% EV's right? That part is clear.

How many car makers are ditching of even going hybrid and going straight to EV? Lotus? Ferrari? lambo? You're talking about hybrid but what year are you looking at? Next year?

Use the years 2030-2035 and show me where i am wrong.

There will be a gigantic swing of EV vs ICE on the road when you project how the car world is shifting given the mandates and the moves (goals) each car maker has.

In terms of performance. EV has already arrived. A fucking 4 door 140k car is destroying everything in sight. We live in america. It's about 0-60, HP and straight line speed. So you can save your track talk for another time. Because when it comes to these metrics, THAT IS WHAT'S GOING TO SELL THE CAR. Hence it's success.

The ev hummer, sold out instantly. The lightning, sold out instantly. When the plaid first rolled out, people couldn't even get one. They had to wait a year. People are STILL WAITING a year, to get a 4 door plaid. About the same time people are waiting for 85k M3/M4's.

The desire and interest has shifted towards this EV movement.

The only way my argument is toast, is when we all wake up one morning, go on the interwebzzzzz and read, "EV is BEING PUSHED BACK, mandates are now 2050. The WORLD IS NOT READY for an EV push".

Until the above happens, there's really nothing you can say that has your argument valid. You're just saying a bunch of stuff to make it sound good to those reading so they can be like, "yeah man!! You really told BGM!!".

Because quite frankly, i am still killing this debate.

Ah yes the last refuge of someone losing the argument, attacking grammatical and spelling errors. Sorry to break it to you but such mundane attacks show how desperate you are. Try to say focused on the bigger picture here ok?

2035 will be repleaded, sorry to break it to you. But your're (see what I did there) a simpleton so I make it very simple for you my friend. 2035 total ban will not happen, it will be revised and there will be allowances for a certain number of ICE to be made per year. But all of that is moot because my argument with you is EV will never be superior to Hybrid for straight line performance. That is a fact you cannot escape my neuron challenged friend.

The fastest cars dominating the drag boards will ALWAYS be ICE and ICE hybrids. No way around it friend. Nice job on trying plant a strawman though. Maybe in another 10 years EV only might be able to break the top 100.

Any joe can grab any ICE car and stuff it with a engine and hybrid power plant and smoke ANYTHING you will be able to buy or ANY EV only car. Completely wrecks your argument. I know it burns you up a 50k home-built car can absolutely destroy any EV out there or in the current future. Sorry.

True the desire has shifted for the average driver who could give rats ass about performance or the driving experience. True drivers want more then what EV only can offer however and thus why Rimac, Ferrari, and Lambo will have hybrid now and for the future. As I said before, the 2035 law will be replead and provisions will be made for performance cars and trucks.

Lol, again dude you really need to get some help, that NPD is kicking in high gear. Nobody outside this little thread knows who you or I am and nobody really gives a shit. Your not a big deal like you think you are, your a legend in your mind only and judging by the responses, you haven't been impressing anyone but yourself. I apoligize in advance for any and all grammer and spellz erros written above BGM. Have mercy, I didnt get the smarts like you

[BGM-M3COMP]

Again you're rambling about nonsense then default into insults and name calling. That shows defeat in your argument. It's ok though. I won't celebrate and claim another discussion victory. I'm giving you guys a chance.

IT IS OK TO CELEBRATE IN PRESENT TIME. Because that's all you have.

I am NOT arguing that the "GIGANTIC" swing will happen today, tomorrow or next year. I said by 2030 you will see it. The plan has been set and there's nothing you guys can provide that will say otherwise.

Models are being dropped, engines are being dropped, plans for EV is being made. Promises of an expanded EV fleet is already happening. As the years go by, this will look much clearer for you guys to see. You guys can talk about what is more green or not and that's NOT what i'm arguing. You guys are probably 100000% right about all that. I am just talking about how and when EV is fully going to take over. Because it's already happening now.

That is why i said let's look at this again in december 2023 and judge the results then. Let's see how it's looking. Then again in december 2024. And so on.

If my account gets banned, i'll make another one and monitor this as these years go by. Or i can disappear the forum and watch from a far as all this happening as the years go by while i smile and think, "man the people on the bimmerpost was wrong once again, he he he".

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I am NOT arguing that the "GIGANTIC" swing will happen today, tomorrow or next year. I said by 2030 you will see it. The plan has been set and there's nothing you guys can provide that will say otherwise.

To clarify, you said...

I am saying you will see a gigantic swing come 2030 where it leans heavily on EV taking the majority of the roads.

That statement has already been proven wrong. EV's will not be majority until 2050. That is the earliest optimistic estimate by numerous studies.

We are currently less than 1% of registered vehicles in US being EV. We are not hitting 51% by 2030, no possible way.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Again you're rambling about nonsense then default into insults and name calling. That shows defeat in your argument. It's ok though. I won't celebrate and claim another discussion victory. I'm giving you guys a chance.

IT IS OK TO CELEBRATE IN PRESENT TIME. Because that's all you have.

I am NOT arguing that the "GIGANTIC" swing will happen today, tomorrow or next year. I said by 2030 you will see it. The plan has been set and there's nothing you guys can provide that will say otherwise.

Models are being dropped, engines are being dropped, plans for EV is being made. Promises of an expanded EV fleet is already happening. As the years go by, this will look much clearer for you guys to see. You guys can talk about what is more green or not and that's NOT what i'm arguing. You guys are probably 100000% right about all that. I am just talking about how and when EV is fully going to take over. Because it's already happening now.

That is why i said let's look at this again in december 2023 and judge the results then. Let's see how it's looking. Then again in december 2024. And so on.

If my account gets banned, i'll make another one and monitor this as these years go by. Or i can disappear the forum and watch from a far as all this happening as the years go by while i smile and think, "man the people on the bimmerpost was wrong once again, he he he".

Its not name calling, I am just stating fact. You are a simpleton when we are arguing about the effects of mass rush to EV adaptation and the effect on society and you scream out: "YOU USED *YOUR* WRONG!!!!"

As me and many others before stated before the law that your lord and savior Gavin Newsom enacted will be replead when it is clear the infrastructure can not support it no matter how much you think your arbitrarily picked 2030 is the golden number. Unfortunately due to zealots like yourself, an incredible amount of pain will be felt before that happens in the form of brown outs back outs, drastic electricity cost increase, entire sections of highways shut down when those 350kw packs of 1000's of cells light up after an accident. BTW, I never said anything about EV transition not happening, it will eventually, HOWEVER the tech is not there yet.

Nothing new was invented, you are literally driving around a motor design from over 100 years ago powered by a bunch of laptop batteries slammed together by R/C car speed controller on steroids with a piece of synthetic wood and a tablet for a dash and slamming it in our faces as though something incredible was created. The transition will happen eventually but rushing to push this half-assed EV abomination on the rest of the world when it is clear we should wait until the tech is ready only shows how brain washed you are. I am sorry Daddy Gavin controls your mind so easily.

EV will never fully take over, EV will dominate for most people who dont care about cars and looking to get from point A to B. The rest of us will be driving ICE and ICE hybrids. EV is not for drivers. Now watch as car companies attempt to role out EV performance models only to revert back to Hybrid in the coming years. EV is NOT for drivers, it is for passengers. Are you a passenger BGM?


Sure thing BGM, lets revisit this thread each year and see how it plays out. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong but I don't beleive for a second you are and you will just disappear. In fact I am still on the fence if your are either a barely sentient EV Zealot regurgitating what daddies Elon and Gavin tell you, or just an advanced forum troll bot. Have I just been duped by a ChatGPT bot?

"EV is for Passengers"

[Mason Hatcher]

Originally Posted by 330indy

Don't think so
Pull out your dictionary

You are using the term apologist incorrectly.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher

You are using the term apologist incorrectly.

No, don't think so.
Is this you?

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Its not name calling, I am just stating fact. You are a simpleton when we are arguing about the effects of mass rush to EV adaptation and the effect on society and you scream out: "YOU USED *YOUR* WRONG!!!!"

As me and many others before stated before the law that your lord and savior Gavin Newsom enacted will be replead when it is clear the infrastructure can not support it no matter how much you think your arbitrarily picked 2030 is the golden number. Unfortunately due to zealots like yourself, an incredible amount of pain will be felt before that happens in the form of brown outs back outs, drastic electricity cost increase, entire sections of highways shut down when those 350kw packs of 1000's of cells light up after an accident. BTW, I never said anything about EV transition not happening, it will eventually, HOWEVER the tech is not there yet.

Nothing new was invented, you are literally driving around a motor design from over 100 years ago powered by a bunch of laptop batteries slammed together by R/C car speed controller on steroids with a piece of synthetic wood and a tablet for a dash and slamming it in our faces as though something incredible was created. The transition will happen eventually but rushing to push this half-assed EV abomination on the rest of the world when it is clear we should wait until the tech is ready only shows how brain washed you are. I am sorry Daddy Gavin controls your mind so easily.

EV will never fully take over, EV will dominate for most people who dont care about cars and looking to get from point A to B. The rest of us will be driving ICE and ICE hybrids. EV is not for drivers. Now watch as car companies attempt to role out EV performance models only to revert back to Hybrid in the coming years. EV is NOT for drivers, it is for passengers. Are you a passenger BGM?


Sure thing BGM, lets revisit this thread each year and see how it plays out. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong but I don't beleive for a second you are and you will just disappear. In fact I am still on the fence if your are either a barely sentient EV Zealot regurgitating what daddies Elon and Gavin tell you, or just an advanced forum troll bot. Have I just been duped by a ChatGPT bot?

"EV is for Passengers"

I wasn't name calling or insulting you though. I simply stated an error you made. If i made errors like that, call me out on that too, i don't mind.

Who said i said this technology is new? Stop posting in bunches to help your argument, because it hasn't.

I already said it numerous times that this "forced" transition isn't right. I said we should transition into this technology naturally and not put a date on it.

However with how things are going, 2035 doesn't seem impossible. 2030 i never said we'll see 100% of EV's on the road. But definitely HALF, if not more. You'll see.

I know you don't care, because you're only reading the downsides to EV but actually care to read and watch innovative moves car makers are doing NOW to improve this EV transition.

Should i post what tesla is doing? They already have much improvements coming in 2023. And of course with that, comes car makers trying to copy and mimic tesla. So whatever improvements tesla makes, car makers will follow.

2030 is far away but 7 years isn't actually not a big deal when it comes to improvements. Go back 7 years from today and look at where we were with EV's.

Let's review this next year.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Just a simple vague video that doesn't even touch on most things happening in 2023.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

However with how things are going, 2035 doesn't seem impossible. 2030 i never said we'll see 100% of EV's on the road. But definitely HALF, if not more. You'll see.

There's not a chance in hell that 50% or more of vehicles on the road will be EV in 7 years. Perhaps 50% of new cars, but not all cars. Won't happen, and you're delusional if you think so.

[CarsAndGuitars]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I wasn't name calling or insulting you though. I simply stated an error you made. If i made errors like that, call me out on that too, i don't mind.

Who said i said this technology is new? Stop posting in bunches to help your argument, because it hasn't.

I already said it numerous times that this "forced" transition isn't right. I said we should transition into this technology naturally and not put a date on it.

However with how things are going, 2035 doesn't seem impossible. 2030 i never said we'll see 100% of EV's on the road. But definitely HALF, if not more. You'll see.

I know you don't care, because you're only reading the downsides to EV but actually care to read and watch innovative moves car makers are doing NOW to improve this EV transition.

Should i post what tesla is doing? They already have much improvements coming in 2023. And of course with that, comes car makers trying to copy and mimic tesla. So whatever improvements tesla makes, car makers will follow.

2030 is far away but 7 years isn't actually not a big deal when it comes to improvements. Go back 7 years from today and look at where we were with EV's.

Let's review this next year.

Its "I" not "i", not once, not twice, but 4 times. Do you refer to yourself in lower case as a reflection of your self-esteem, or just a hypocrite criticizing the grammar of others while yours goes unchecked?

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

Its "I" not "i", not once, not twice, but 4 times. Do you refer to yourself in lower case as a reflection of your self-esteem, or just a hypocrite criticizing the grammar of others while yours goes unchecked?

It's-----when you want to use the contraction of it is or it has
Its------possessive form of it and denotes ownership of or belonging to.



Grammar Nazi flying away now

[CarsAndGuitars]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

It's-----when you want to use the contraction of it is or it has
Its------possessive form of it and denotes ownership of or belonging to.



Grammar Nazi flying away now

If you look back through this thread and others you will see that BGM is the grammar Nazi. I was just giving him some of his own. I have never enforced grammar, nor did I imply (or is it infer ? ) mine was perfect. Thanks for catching my error.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars

If you look back through this thread and others you will see that BGM is the grammar Nazi. I was just giving him some of his own. I have never enforced grammar, nor did I imply (or is it infer ? ) mine was perfect. Thanks for catching my error.

I'm just trolling around
English is not even my second language, so I'll be the first to make some dumbass grammatical eror

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

It's-----when you want to use the contraction of it is or it has
Its------possessive form of it and denotes ownership of or belonging to.



Grammar Nazi flying away now

lmaoooooo

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

There's not a chance in hell that 50% or more of vehicles on the road will be EV in 7 years. Perhaps 50% of new cars, but not all cars. Won't happen, and you're delusional if you think so.

New or old, half or even more will be EV's at 2030 -/+ 1 or 2 years. By 2035 it's already clear as day.

Of course i sound delusional, that's your denial speaking to you.

7 years is a long time from now. But if you think about it, it's really not.

This is happening rapidly. And each year that goes by, just imagine that time times 2 in terms of how things evolve.

5 years ago i barely saw a tesla on the road. Now they are everywhere, including my own while other cool tesla drivers wave to each other lol.

Imagine another 7 years of this evolution? haha

Just accept the facts brah!

[zx10guy]

Here's an interesting video of what life is like traveling with an EV. For those that don't know Rich Benoit (Rich Rebuilds) has been making a ton of EV videos. From when he pieced together a working Model S out of two totaled vehicles to opening his own EV repair shop. So he's definitely not anti EV. But even he says the lofty target of having all EVs sold by 2030/35 is not happening. Along his trip with his just purchased Rivian, he's had issues finding chargers, finding chargers that work, and finding chargers that actually have a fast recharge rate. The premise of the video initially is to call out a shady dealer with how they were selling a Rivian they had in stock. His trip was from NJ to GA and then back to MA. One charging station he used cost him $77 to charge up and he still didn't get the full range out of the charge. On his return trip to MA, it took him 29 hours to get back where as it would have taken an ICE vehicle 17 hours.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

New or old, half or even more will be EV's at 2030 -/+ 1 or 2 years. By 2035 it's already clear as day.

Of course i sound delusional, that's your denial speaking to you.

7 years is a long time from now. But if you think about it, it's really not.

This is happening rapidly. And each year that goes by, just imagine that time times 2 in terms of how things evolve.

5 years ago i barely saw a tesla on the road. Now they are everywhere, including my own while other cool tesla drivers wave to each other lol.

Imagine another 7 years of this evolution? haha

Just accept the facts brah!

About half the ICEs that are on the road today will still be on the road in 2035. It's just a fact, cars don't just disappear from the road after their warranty expires. Average age of registered cars in the US is 12.1-12.5 years old. (google it). Of all the ICE's that will be built in the next 12 years (2023-2035), most will still be on the road in 2035. 2023 cars are projected to be ~93%. 93% is more than 7%. Even when we are selling more new EV's than ICE's, ICE's will still be the dominant mode of transportation because of all the ICE"s already made at that point with plenty of good service life ahead of them.

The only way to get to majority EV's ( ICE < EV ) in 13 years would require a total ban on the sale of all ICE's completely, today. The ICE's already in the market would slowly age out and go away in 12.1-12.5 years when about half of them would be gone and EV"s would finally catch up.

this is just simple math based on actual widely available data, not an opinion.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

New or old, half or even more will be EV's at 2030 -/+ 1 or 2 years. By 2035 it's already clear as day.

Of course i sound delusional, that's your denial speaking to you.

7 years is a long time from now. But if you think about it, it's really not.

This is happening rapidly. And each year that goes by, just imagine that time times 2 in terms of how things evolve.

5 years ago i barely saw a tesla on the road. Now they are everywhere, including my own while other cool tesla drivers wave to each other lol.

Imagine another 7 years of this evolution? haha

Just accept the facts brah!

Anyway, it's not going to happen in 7 years. So you're making an assumption that a HUGE percentage of the ICE cars on the road today are going where? Decommissioned? Crushed? Not allowed on the road by law? Sorry bud ain't happening...it's inevitable that it will happen, but not in the time you think it will. Come back in 7 years to tell me I'm wrong, until then go back to your spank bank of "commute kills" and enjoy the afternoon.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Anyway, it's not going to happen in 7 years. So you're making an assumption that a HUGE percentage of the ICE cars on the road today are going where? Decommissioned? Crushed? Not allowed on the road by law? Sorry bud ain't happening...it's inevitable that it will happen, but not in the time you think it will. Come back in 7 years to tell me I'm wrong, until then go back to your spank bank of "commute kills" and enjoy the afternoon.

Exactly. Google searches of available data say there are 275 million registered cars in the US right now, and about 2.3 million of them are EV's. EV's are less than 1% That's your current starting point.

It's going to take a long time for those 275M cars to run out their remaining lives and become decommissioned. Even if we went cold turkey on ICE sales right now, that fact doesn't change. Add to that that ICE sales are still leading EV's by more than 13:1 will prolong that process.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Anyway, it's not going to happen in 7 years. So you're making an assumption that a HUGE percentage of the ICE cars on the road today are going where? Decommissioned? Crushed? Not allowed on the road by law? Sorry bud ain't happening...it's inevitable that it will happen, but not in the time you think it will. Come back in 7 years to tell me I'm wrong, until then go back to your spank bank of "commute kills" and enjoy the afternoon.

Didn't say ICE cars, new or used, will be banned or not allowed by law at 2030. Again you're reaching just to have anything to say in this dicussion.

I am saying the totality of EV's on the road will be at 50% by 2030 in my opinion. Give or take a year or 2. That's why the gas ban is 2035. It gives people time to either get on board, or dig into the used ICE market and find your forever ICE car.

Now post 2035 will the govt ban the usage of ICE cars? I actually wouldn't doubt it. Not in the sense that if they catch you you're going to jail. But probably a heavy mileage restriction, similar to leasing a car. Basically ICE will be for recreational purposes. You want to drive your ICE car post 2035? Ok pay a fee. How much? Depends. You want 5k miles a year, pay this amount. You want 10k miles a year, pay this amount.

This is the inevitable and i already agreed this is more about politics than anything else. I hate talking about politics.

But in this case, that's going to win. And that's what i'm preaching.

Let's have fun in 7 years