[lens]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Horner's not going anywhere IMO. Red Bull either fire him, or he stays put.

Yeah, I personally have never seen anyone who was accused of sexual misconduct to still be doing their job.

Usually they get suspended until the review is done.

[Innovade]

Parading him around the RB launch while all of this is going down is wild. Such a bad look for RB if this is all true. Along with their history of tolerating Marko's racism, RB sure knows how to pick em.

[Car-Addicted]

Yes letting Christian Horner do his job as team principle while there is an investigation of an allegation of inappropriate behavior is horrible. Some people need to grow the F up.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by lens

Yeah, I personally have never seen anyone who was accused of sexual misconduct to still be doing their job.

Dating myself, back in the day not only there was no such a thing as sexual misconduct, but all sexual misconducts --and there were countless-- were part of the gig, at times even encouraged, and never ever investigated and much less ending in termination. Me Too changed everything. Thankfully.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by lens

If he was actually accused of sexual misconduct, he would be suspended until further review.

learnt that "inappropriate controlling behaviour" is RB speak for "sexual harrassment" which is just normal "app traffic" in day to day social media.

in other words, someone who works in RBR has a Snapchat account

[dfox]

The app traffic between the female employee of Red Bull and Horner, seen by De Telegraaf, shows the image that Horner (50) has arranged and sent sexually-toned messages to the employee over a significant period of time.

So instead of bringing it up right away, where changes might be able to be enacted, they decided to just hoard it and wait until they thought they had enough to either screw him over and/or end up with some big settlement.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by dfox

So instead of bringing it up right away, where changes might be able to be enacted, they decided to just hoard it and wait until they thought they had enough to either screw him over and/or end up with some big settlement.

There's still a lot to learn. And like the saying goes, the first victim is often the truth.

Personally I don't like this thing of ringing the alarm at the first offence. People make mistakes and say things they regret. A one-strike and no-second-chance environment is horrible for everybody. Nobody grows. Everybody walks on egg shells and lives in fear. I prefer to establish a pattern, then you can explain to the offender the problem.

To be clear, rape, manhandling, hitting, physical threats, killing, etc, are absolutely inadmissible anywhere. But it is not what Horner is accused of.

[Car-Addicted]

Maybe a little history needs to be repeated for all the people that need to get a life.

Mr Mosley served as president of the Federation Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA), the governing body of F1, from 1993 to 2009 but was known in his later life for successfully taking the News of the World newspaper to court in a major privacy case.
In the 2008 case, Mr Mosley successfully sued the publisher of the newspaper after it wrongly reported that he had attended a “Nazi-themed” sex party.
The former F1 boss became a prominent supporter of stronger press regulation following the case and even bankrolled phone-hacking victims in their fight against the News of the World.
The controversial case came after the tabloid newspaper published a story on 30 March 2008 with the headline “F1 Boss has Sick Nazi Orgy with Five Hookers”, based on a secret video filmed by one of the women who took part in the sex session in London.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1852937.html

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

There's still a lot to learn. And like the saying goes, the first victim is often the truth.

Personally I don't like this thing of ringing the alarm at the first offence. People make mistakes and say things they regret. A one-strike and no-second-chance environment is horrible for everybody. Nobody grows. Everybody walks on egg shells and lives in fear. I prefer to establish a pattern, then you can explain to the offender the problem.

To be clear, rape, manhandling, hitting, physical threats, killing, etc, are absolutely inadmissible anywhere. But it is not what Horner is accused of.

Of course, we have no clue what happened, so I reserve my final opinion until we hear more...

Saying something upfront, saying that you're uncomfortable with the communication, is absolutely the best way to treat the situation. Because yes, people make mistakes. But if that person never knows you're uncomfortable with the communications, how are you supposed to know you're offending them?

Hypothetical scenario: The issue at hand could be jokes shared in a group chat, occasionally sexist. The best thing to do is to either approach the person, HR, or someone else in the company and let them know that you don't find something appropriate. Horner gets a minor slap on the wrist and stops. Everyone moves along with life. Instead, someone decided to wait a "significant period of time" to say something. Now if this person raised the flag early and it continued, then no, he's got no ground to stand on. But if this is the first raising of the flag, there are plenty of circumstances where Horner should take corrective action and everyone should move along with life...

[FC4]

It’s getting hard to sift through what’s been officially confirmed and what’s speculation at this point.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by lens

https://twitter.com/ErikvHaren/statu...168321547?s=20


“The riot within Formula 1 team Red Bull Racing around the independent investigation of team boss Christian Horner turns out to be one of great proportions. .....

Of course TacticalRab's newest video is about this, full of gossip :

But he has some new and funny interesting information about this.
Apparently, the layer that interviewed CH has disappeared!
He went on vacation or something....

This is such a soap.
But it worries me that Erik van Haren reported the £650k offer. Coming up with such a specific amount and publish it in a large national newspaper...
He must have a pretty reliable source for that.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Maybe a little history needs to be repeated for all the people that need to get a life.

Mr Mosley served as president of the Federation Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA), the governing body of F1, from 1993 to 2009 but was known in his later life for successfully taking the News of the World newspaper to court in a major privacy case.
In the 2008 case, Mr Mosley successfully sued the publisher of the newspaper after it wrongly reported that he had attended a “Nazi-themed” sex party.
The former F1 boss became a prominent supporter of stronger press regulation following the case and even bankrolled phone-hacking victims in their fight against the News of the World.
The controversial case came after the tabloid newspaper published a story on 30 March 2008 with the headline “F1 Boss has Sick Nazi Orgy with Five Hookers”, based on a secret video filmed by one of the women who took part in the sex session in London.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1852937.html

AFAIK, the news outlet that leaked the Horner story are reputable.

Mosley was right to sue, and I'm happy he won.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by dfox

Saying something upfront, saying that you're uncomfortable with the communication, is absolutely the best way to treat the situation. Because yes, people make mistakes. But if that person never knows you're uncomfortable with the communications, how are you supposed to know you're offending them?

Hypothetical scenario: The issue at hand could be jokes shared in a group chat, occasionally sexist. The best thing to do is to either approach the person, HR, or someone else in the company and let them know that you don't find something appropriate. Horner gets a minor slap on the wrist and stops. Everyone moves along with life. Instead, someone decided to wait a "significant period of time" to say something. Now if this person raised the flag early and it continued, then no, he's got no ground to stand on. But if this is the first raising of the flag, there are plenty of circumstances where Horner should take corrective action and everyone should move along with life...

I too prefer to have a nice and private 1:1 with the offender. It has happened to me both ways. Sometimes we don't know we're being inappropriate. Back in the old country, 'oriental' means everything and everyone from the east. Here it's offensive to call a person oriental. Go figure. But there. Problem nipped in the bud.

But bosses are often in a position of power. A buddy tells me about the inappropriate stuff the bosses at a premier international wealth management firm say and do. Even after being told repeatedly that's not OK. Looking down blouses and commenting on length of skirts is as routine as asking how was the weekend. Go figure.

I'd like to hope Horner is not that kind of man.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

But it worries me that Erik van Haren reported the £650k offer. Coming up with such a specific amount and publish it in a large national newspaper...
He must have a pretty reliable source for that.

Erik van Haren explained previously in Dutch interviews that he has legal counsel on the case and involves superiors to ensure that he and the newspaper 'De Telegraaf' stay out of legal trouble. He indicated that, in principle, he could publish more of what he has heard, but decided to be cautious and, hence, to only publish what he can back up with evidence. He said something along the lines of "given the delicate nature, we did our home work properly".

As he now mentioned a £650K proposal made on Feb 3: he would be a fool to publish that claim if he has no irrefutable evidence about that. We may reasonably assume that he got OK'd for publication of that tidbit.

The female employee allegedly rejected the £650K proposal. It remains guessing, but it sounds like it's a matter of principle and integrity for her. van Haren claims to know her identity.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Horner's not going anywhere IMO. Red Bull either fire him, or he stays put.

the key word here is Red Bull

one of the biggest corporation in the world, the Godfather has recently passed on leaving the mafia to be run by CH, but owned by 1 general and another group of closeknit wisemen. Thai 51% (Horner supporter, for now) + Austrians 49% (this wisemen group we think also includes Marko, and Jos)

both want to control the corporation (the $$$ and the power in the world)

it sounds like Europe thought they had a way to quickly get rid of CH and install someone else of their choice.

but Thai sees this as a threat to his stable control and don't want Horner to go.

"Red Bull" can't fire Horner at the moment, Thai vs Austrians are doing their own secret society boss fight and one of them will win, but we don't know how it's going to end just yet.

let the Mafia do their Mafia thing and eventually one of them will win.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by g21

the key word here is Red Bull
one of the biggest corporation in the world, the Godfather has recently passed on leaving the mafia to be run by CH, but owned by 1 general and another group of closeknit wisemen. Thai 51% (Horner supporter, for now) + Austrians 49% (this wisemen group we think also includes Marko, and Jos)
both want to control the corporation (the $$$ and the power in the world)
it sounds like Europe thought they had a way to quickly get rid of CH and install someone else of their choice.
but Thai sees this as a threat to his stable control and don't want Horner to go.
"Red Bull" can't fire Horner at the moment, Thai vs Austrians are doing their own secret society boss fight and one of them will win, but we don't know how it's going to end just yet.
let the Mafia do their Mafia thing and eventually one of them will win.

If that would be the situation, then: "And they lived unhappily ever after..."

Stark Verstappen:

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by g21

both want to control the corporation (the $$$ and the power in the world)

I want to give this a thumbs up as great hyperbole and Onion level response to the stupid displayed here daily but things have gotten so far off the range here I'm not sure this is tongue in cheek.

[GuidoK]

So according to TacticalRab's latest video, now Ford is also mingling in the CH accusations, disapproving of the matter. That might become an important factor....
And RB offered CH already last year an oppertunity to leave RB under a 'health issue' smokescreen.
I don't know what to think of it...

[Artemis]

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Attachment 3390015

Horner has 100% support from HONDA , FORD (RBPT) and Red Bull .

From the rumor mill : The female Red Bull employee wanted to move to Mercedes in 2023.
So...I wouldn't be surprised if the whole situation is part of Wolff's Blitzkrieg ...

What a soap !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Horner has 100% support from HONDA , FORD (RBPT) and Red Bull .

From the rumor mill : The female Red Bull employee wanted to move to Mercedes in 2023.
So...I wouldn't be surprised if the whole situation is part of Wolff's Blitzkrieg ...

What a soap !

I've mentioned this before that all dirty tricks usually lead back to the POS.

[Killed by Death]

I'll be glad when racing starts. All this is BS