[DTR235]

This may seem like an odd question, but were any of you in a position to pull the trigger on the G80/G82 M3/M4 and chose the G42 M240?

I know, I know... The true M's are far superior, not just with the S58, but in chassis, suspension, steering, etc... The most striking thing to me when driving a true M is the better turn-in, front-end feel, and chassis rigidity.

I actually have an allocation locked in on a 2023 M4 Comp.

Hear me out though... The more I look into the M240 the more is seems like the more reasonable choice.

I'm one of the few that actually doesn't mind the G80/G82 front end and think it looks pretty aggressive. That being said:

- The looks of the G42 M240 (particularly with some light mods like springs, spacers, carbon fiber treatment on the front and side splitters, rear diffuser, and quad exhaust is one of the best looking cars under $100k IMHO (I'd go Brooklyn Grey and CF accents... same I have planned for the M4).

- I live in a city in the Midwest. No canyons to carve or snake runs to be found. I like power and to take 90-degree turns quickly aside from a road trip with a solid backroad every few months.

- I like modding and personalizing my cars. I've done this with every car I've owned over the last 20 years I've been driving. Modding always comes with risk, but if I tune and (God forbid) blow a B58 in a M240 @ $10k to fix, it would suck, but certainly wouldn't ruin my finances... However, I'd probably tune the M4 and replacing a S58 at $30k, that cost is getting into seriously hurting the pocket-book territory.

- B58 sounds better. Don't think many would argue that.

- I have a FBO 2016 M235 Xdrive making just under 400whp on pump and a little more with E... though I rarely get to use the E due to availability. I enjoy my car still but my 2 main gripes are that it lacks top end and doesn't handle especially well. After researching what the B58 is capable of and how much better it handles.... it has me wondering if a $60k M240 with $5-6k in it would be a remarkably better value and give me 90%+ of a M4 but for $40k less? That's the part that keeps me up at night.

The money thing is more about value than affordability. I can afford either (thankfully), but I've always been someone that liked the value underdog. I know the new DME hasn't been cracked on the M240, but even with JB4 and downpipes it looks like people are getting up toward 450whp on pump. VERY interested to see what BM3 can do as that tune literally transformed my M235 (and that's with having JB on prior).

Thanks, all!

[Red_sir]

I think I can relate to where you're coming from. To me good value is as important as having the best car that I can afford. An M240 with a few k in mods does sound like the sweet spot in terms of value. Full M would be wasted on someone like me that will not drive near its full potential. For me $40k is a lot of money and much better spent elsewhere in my situation. Now if you can honestly afford that $40k without sacrificing anything then I think you'll be happy either way. Otherwise I think M240 is the reasonable choice. But have to be careful and not let the options and modding get out of control or you might find yourself approaching M4 money in the end.

[rons e92]

Interesting timing. My M240i has been in the shop since 7/31. To help cope, and because the 228i gran coupe they provided as a loaner sucks, I rented an M4 comp for the weekend for some driving therapy.

A couple notes after driving the M4 since Friday.

It's fast. It doesn't feel much faster than my M240i. This M4 still pulls like a freight train. My M240i was still in break in, so I didn't get to really rip it so it could be closer, but I don't think my M240i is going to spin all 4 on the 2-3 shift. I did that in the M4 last night.

Both cars have tons of power and deliver it so smoothly, your sensation of speed is thrown off a little bit. Honestly though on the street you wouldn't notice that much of a difference. With mods, the M240i will feel faster than a stock M4. Obviously we know what happens when you mod an M4. 60-100 in the M4 happens so fast and so smoothly that you don't even realize how fast your accumulating velocity.

M240i sounds better than the M4. This is completely subjective, but I think the M240i sounds more violent.

The M4 feels way bigger. I know it isn't, but if feels huge when driving it. For this reason alone the M4 isn't a car I'd want to own long term.

The suspension in comfort feels almost identical to the M240i. I haven't been able to feel a noticeable difference in handling characteristics. I'm sure there is when you really ring these things out, but on the street here on Long Island, you're never going to notice. I was actually surprised at how compliant the suspension in the M4 is. I was expecting it to be harsh, but it's not unless you move it to sport plus.

Just as a side note, the loaner 228i has the worst suspension I've ever encountered in a BMW product. I can't believe BMW sells that car with BMW badges on it. It feels like a fwd Corolla with extra heavy steering, an overly sensitive accelerator pedal, and tons of turbo lag.

The transmission in the M4 is jerky as hell, even in comfort mode. When pulling away from a stop it jerks pretty good, even in comfort. The M240i is smoother. They both shift just as fast. I'm not able to notice a significant difference between the two. Again I'm sure if you were on a track and timing this stuff there is a difference, but on the street I can't feel anything significant.

It's funny because I've always wanted an M car, then BMW made the M4 hideous and the M3 as big as a house so I wasn't interested. The M240i was like a sweet spot, and now having driven an M4, I'm actually even happier with my car. The $30k+ I saved over an M4 or even the $20k+ I saved over a g42 M2 goes very far with mods.

I'm glad I didn't get on the list for an M2 at $10k over sticker. Once tuning support comes from Dinan with a matching warranty the M240i will be more than enough. 500whp seems attainable and probably can be achieved for relatively little money.

Value is completely subjective, however after driving the M4, it's not even close. If you don't go crazy with options, you can get into a new M240i for a little more than half what you'd pay for a decently equipped M4. The car I'm driving is an M4 comp convertible with all the options. My M240i (granted I checked every box and my MSRP was almost $63k) is 90% of the M4 for 60% of the price.

If you have any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask!

Edit: Launch control in the M4 is nutty. There is no way my car is this fast.

[DTR235]

Originally Posted by Red_sir

I think I can relate to where you're coming from. To me good value is as important as having the best car that I can afford. An M240 with a few k in mods does sound like the sweet spot in terms of value. Full M would be wasted on someone like me that will not drive near its full potential. For me $40k is a lot of money and much better spent elsewhere in my situation. Now if you can honestly afford that $40k without sacrificing anything then I think you'll be happy either way. Otherwise I think M240 is the reasonable choice. But have to be careful and not let the options and modding get out of control or you might find yourself approaching M4 money in the end.

Thanks for the response, and all great points.

Agreed that a M240 with mods seems like the sweet spot. I haven't driven one yet, but from everything I hear the stock handling and chassis feel is considerably better than the earlier models. I'm expecting that with some light suspension mods and good tires it should be A LOT better than a stock suspension M235. And FBO should get it well over 500 chp and a deep 11 sec car.

I can afford the $40k extra without making sacrifices, but there's a lot other places I could put $40k towards that wouldn't be a depreciating asset - and to your point, will I really even use the extra that the M gives over a modified M240? The nearest track is 2 hours away and MAYBE would get there once or twice a year. Otherwise it's mostly city and highway driving... don't me wrong, I drive my cars hard and have fun, but there's no where I could get close to pushing the limits of a G8X M car. That being said, while saving $40k would be great, it would really suck to spend $60k (M240) and regret it.
I suppose with the way the market has been holding value I could potentially go the M240 route and if I really feel like I need to step up to the M4, I should be able to do a swap without losing much.

As far as not going nuts with the modding, that's a good call out. I think I'll be be ok there. I've kept my M235 at FBO for 5 years and have resisted the urge to go nuts.
I figure a good setup would look something like:
- Carbon Fiber front splitter, side skirts, rear diffuser, spoiler.
- Springs and spacers
- Bracing
- FBO w/ JB4 (until BM3 is available)

I figure all of that would run ~ $4k. Throw in wheels and tires for a few more. Honestly, I planned to do most of that to the M4 anyway, except for FBO and Bracing.

[DTR235]

Originally Posted by rons e92

Interesting timing. My M240i has been in the shop since 7/31. To help cope, and because the 228i gran coupe they provided as a loaner sucks, I rented an M4 comp for the weekend for some driving therapy.

A couple notes after driving the M4 since Friday.

It's fast. It doesn't feel much faster than my M240i. This M4 still pulls like a freight train. My M240i was still in break in, so I didn't get to really rip it so it could be closer, but I don't think my M240i is going to spin all 4 on the 2-3 shift. I did that in the M4 last night.

Both cars have tons of power and deliver it so smoothly, your sensation of speed is thrown off a little bit. Honestly though on the street you wouldn't notice that much of a difference. With mods, the M240i will feel faster than a stock M4. Obviously we know what happens when you mod an M4. 60-100 in the M4 happens so fast and so smoothly that you don't even realize how fast your accumulating velocity.

M240i sounds better than the M4. This is completely subjective, but I think the M240i sounds more violent.

The M4 feels way bigger. I know it isn't, but if feels huge when driving it. For this reason alone the M4 isn't a car I'd want to own long term.

The suspension in comfort feels almost identical to the M240i. I haven't been able to feel a noticeable difference in handling characteristics. I'm sure there is when you really ring these things out, but on the street here on Long Island, you're never going to notice. I was actually surprised at how compliant the suspension in the M4 is. I was expecting it to be harsh, but it's not unless you move it to sport plus.

Just as a side note, the loaner 228i has the worst suspension I've ever encountered in a BMW product. I can't believe BMW sells that car with BMW badges on it. It feels like a fwd Corolla with extra heavy steering, an overly sensitive accelerator pedal, and tons of turbo lag.

The transmission in the M4 is jerky as hell, even in comfort mode. When pulling away from a stop it jerks pretty good, even in comfort. The M240i is smoother. They both shift just as fast. I'm not able to notice a significant difference between the two. Again I'm sure if you were on a track and timing this stuff there is a difference, but on the street I can't feel anything significant.

It's funny because I've always wanted an M car, then BMW made the M4 hideous and the M3 as big as a house so I wasn't interested. The M240i was like a sweet spot, and now having driven an M4, I'm actually even happier with my car. The $30k+ I saved over an M4 or even the $20k+ I saved over a g42 M2 goes very far with mods.

I'm glad I didn't get on the list for an M2 at $10k over sticker. Once tuning support comes from Dinan with a matching warranty the M240i will be more than enough. 500whp seems attainable and probably can be achieved for relatively little money.

Value is completely subjective, however after driving the M4, it's not even close. If you don't go crazy with options, you can get into a new M240i for a little more than half what you'd pay for a decently equipped M4. The car I'm driving is an M4 comp convertible with all the options. My M240i (granted I checked every box and my MSRP was almost $63k) is 90% of the M4 for 60% of the price.

If you have any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask!

Edit: Launch control in the M4 is nutty. There is no way my car is this fast.

Wow, this is incredibly valuable insight! Thank you so much. I honestly wasn't expecting that I'd be able to find someone that had driven both recently and lived with both recently.

What you said about the M240 being 90% of the car for 60% of the price is exactly what brought me to this moment and made me question going with the M4. My allocation build on the M4 is for a 2023 (higher pricing on almost everything) and without any taxes has a MSRP of $102k. If I can mod a G42 M240 for 40% less money and have a car that I personally believe looks better and sounds better.... that's sounding pretty damn good.
I like to drive my cars hard and have fun, but I am also not a lunatic, so to your point, I doubt I will be able to tell too much of a difference between a modded M240 and M4. I know it would never be as good, but that's a lot of extra money for a performance difference I probably would never notice unless on a track or doing "go to jail" things.

Your point about the M4 "feeling" considerably larger stuck out to me as well. I live in a major city and while I have a garage to park in, a car that feels smaller is a plus all around. I've always loved and wanted an M5, but I decided not to go that route specifically because of how big it is/feels.

Do you mind sharing what has had your car in the shop for over 3 weeks?

I guess I have some serious thinking to do.

One thing that sucks is that a 2023 M240 would come with idrive8, whereas the 2023 M4 is still on idrive7... Really not a fan of the tacked on Ipad look, but if I go the M240 route hopefully idrive8 has enough other cool features to make it bearable.

[BeemerBaron]

I'm modding my M240i until the G series M2 comes out, then we'll evaluate switching to an M2 if they launch an xDrive version. But moving from idrive 7 in my 240 to ID8 in the new M2 is a massive deterant.

Otherwise I'm sticking with my modded 240, even after owning a F series M4.

[DTR235]

Originally Posted by Slingray

I'm modding my M240i until the G series M2 comes out, then we'll evaluate switching to an M2 if they launch an xDrive version. But moving from idrive 7 in my 240 to ID8 in the new M2 is a massive deterant.

Otherwise I'm sticking with my modded 240, even after owning a F series M4.

If they came out with an Xdrive M2 Comp I'd go that route in a heart beat. I kept being told it wasn't going to happen, but as I am sure most of you are aware, there's now new rumblings that it will exist down the line.

The idrive thing is rough. If I do decide on a M240, I may try to pick up a 2022 than build a 2023. I don't like the giant screens as they seem lazy and look cheap IMHO... but what really gets me is the lack of a shifter. I use my shifter to manually shift nearly as much as the paddles... I've driven stick my whole life and my M235 was my first auto, and I often find myself using the shifter if I am not going WOT. I actually really enjoy having both options (paddle and shifter). Seeing as the M3 will retain the shifter with idrive8, hopefully the M2 will as well (with an Xdrive variant).

Btw, congrats on owning an R34

[rons e92]

I started a whole thread on why my cars been in the shop. It's the "M Performance Knob killed my car" thread or something to that effect.

The M4 is an awesome car, but the M240i is more up my alley. You're right about iD7 vs iD8. I absolutely hate iD8. I won't buy another BMW until they fix that disaster.

Either way you can't go wrong. I can promise you that the M240i will not disappoint you though.

[NoSuchSol]

IMHO, I find that the M240i is more attractive than the G8X series. I'd change my mind if the kidney grilles were a little more normal and the dodge hood was slightly changed. The CSL looks like it could be pretty trick but that's a ridiculous sum of money when it comes out.

Anyways, the M240i isn't nearly as raw as my F80 was. If you're going to be daily driving the car then it's probably worth serious consideration. I went from a F80 Comp to an Audi S4 thinking I wanted something a little more livable during the daily drives. It was too buttoned up so switched over to the M240i. It's definitely a livable car but with a bit more tossability.

[donnyfontaine]

Originally Posted by NoSuchSol

IMHO, I find that the M240i is more attractive than the G8X series. I'd change my mind if the kidney grilles were a little more normal and the dodge hood was slightly changed. The CSL looks like it could be pretty trick but that's a ridiculous sum of money when it comes out.

Anyways, the M240i isn't nearly as raw as my F80 was. If you're going to be daily driving the car then it's probably worth serious consideration. I went from a F80 Comp to an Audi S4 thinking I wanted something a little more livable during the daily drives. It was too buttoned up so switched over to the M240i. It's definitely a livable car but with a bit more tossability.

I had a '18 S6 because of the nasty V8 but that thing was SO boring apart from passing people on the highway. It just. Was so boring on backroads and in most driving. Love the M240 so far, and i still have 70 miles left in my break in period

[donnyfontaine]

Originally Posted by DTR235

The idrive thing is rough. If I do decide on a M240, I may try to pick up a 2022 than build a 2023. I don't like the giant screens as they seem lazy and look cheap IMHO... but what really gets me is the lack of a shifter. I use my shifter to manually shift nearly as much as the paddles... I've driven stick my whole life and my M235 was my first auto, and I often find myself using the shifter if I am not going WOT. I actually really enjoy having both options (paddle and shifter). Seeing as the M3 will retain the shifter with idrive8, hopefully the M2 will as well (with an Xdrive variant).

I feel this... exactly what I did a few weeks ago. Had a '23 allocation deposit down for a build, but didn't realize it would get iD8. Checked it out at a local dealer... gosh it was not my thing. Screens are the future, but this is a poor implementation. You're right about the switch/shifter... if the '23s had the shifter, I'd have probably kept my order. But my sales guy was nice enough a month ago to let me know it would get the screen and the gear switch, which gave me just enough time to luck into a perfect build on the lot for a '22 a few hours from home.

[soflacarguy]

Let's not forget the MPG advantages of the G42. Pretty significant if this car will be your daily.

[NoSuchSol]

Originally Posted by donnyfontaine

I had a '18 S6 because of the nasty V8 but that thing was SO boring apart from passing people on the highway. It just. Was so boring on backroads and in most driving. Love the M240 so far, and i still have 70 miles left in my break in period

ha... told my wife to not let me buy Audi's again. Love them but I got bored too easily of the two.

[DTR235]

Originally Posted by NoSuchSol

IMHO, I find that the M240i is more attractive than the G8X series. I'd change my mind if the kidney grilles were a little more normal and the dodge hood was slightly changed. The CSL looks like it could be pretty trick but that's a ridiculous sum of money when it comes out.

Anyways, the M240i isn't nearly as raw as my F80 was. If you're going to be daily driving the car then it's probably worth serious consideration. I went from a F80 Comp to an Audi S4 thinking I wanted something a little more livable during the daily drives. It was too buttoned up so switched over to the M240i. It's definitely a livable car but with a bit more tossability.

Thanks, I agree that the M240 is a better looking car. I think BMW did a good job with updating it and making it look like a modern evolution with exciting design, without going completely hideous like with some other models.

I definitely like my cars a little more raw. When I bought the M235 it was a little too sedate for me. Too smooth and too quite and lacked the aggression I like in my cars. Going FBO definitely changed that and the car is great now! I assume the same would happen with a M240 except even better in every way.
I hear you on the Audi... When also test drive an S3 and S4 when I bought my M235 6 years ago and they were both a snooze fest to drive. I don't commute daily, so when I take my car out I like to have some fun and get a little aggressive.

[DTR235]

Originally Posted by rons e92

I started a whole thread on why my cars been in the shop. It's the "M Performance Knob killed my car" thread or something to that effect.

The M4 is an awesome car, but the M240i is more up my alley. You're right about iD7 vs iD8. I absolutely hate iD8. I won't buy another BMW until they fix that disaster.

Either way you can't go wrong. I can promise you that the M240i will not disappoint you though.

Thanks for all your input.

Found your thread on your car. That is a huge bummer man. Sorry you're dealing with that and hope you can find a solution asap.

[DTR235]

Originally Posted by donnyfontaine

I feel this... exactly what I did a few weeks ago. Had a '23 allocation deposit down for a build, but didn't realize it would get iD8. Checked it out at a local dealer... gosh it was not my thing. Screens are the future, but this is a poor implementation. You're right about the switch/shifter... if the '23s had the shifter, I'd have probably kept my order. But my sales guy was nice enough a month ago to let me know it would get the screen and the gear switch, which gave me just enough time to luck into a perfect build on the lot for a '22 a few hours from home.

Congrats on wrangling a '22.

If I decide on M240 I am likely going to try that route and hopefully don't get price gouged.

It sounds crazy, but I think I'd rather just pay all the extra money for the 2023 M4C vs a 2023 M240. At least with the M4 I get the iDrive7 and a shifter.... Much like you, I don't like the screens, but I would probably get over it... the screens + no shifter is a dealbreaker I think.

[DTR235]

Originally Posted by soflacarguy

Let's not forget the MPG advantages of the G42. Pretty significant if this car will be your daily.

I don't commute daily (WFH) but I do drive it several times a week and all of family are all in the suburbs about 60 miles away so at least once a month I am doing that drive.

I assumed the extra MPG would be wiped out once modding. I know with my N55, once I went FBO my average MPG went from 18 to 14 (large amount of traffic and city driving). Assumed the B58 would see a similar hit, but would be great if now. It's a pain having such a small tank and getting such low MPG. If I had to commute daily I'd be filling up 3x a week.

[NoSuchSol]

Originally Posted by DTR235

Thanks, I agree that the M240 is a better looking car. I think BMW did a good job with updating it and making it look like a modern evolution with exciting design, without going completely hideous like with some other models.

I definitely like my cars a little more raw. When I bought the M235 it was a little too sedate for me. Too smooth and too quite and lacked the aggression I like in my cars. Going FBO definitely changed that and the car is great now! I assume the same would happen with a M240 except even better in every way.
I hear you on the Audi... When also test drive an S3 and S4 when I bought my M235 6 years ago and they were both a snooze fest to drive. I don't commute daily, so when I take my car out I like to have some fun and get a little aggressive.

The M240i has a bit of that - I can get it to go sideways. I liked modding cars back in the day and wouldn't mind doing a little with the M240i. Probably something as simple as a piggy back, intake and some carbon fiber bits on the outside.

I would love to find out if the G8X brace would work on the G42. Otherwise, the standard braces would be a fun addition.

[BeemerBaron]

Originally Posted by DTR235

This may seem like an odd question, but were any of you in a position to pull the trigger on the G80/G82 M3/M4 and chose the G42 M240?

I know, I know... The true M's are far superior, not just with the S58, but in chassis, suspension, steering, etc... The most striking thing to me when driving a true M is the better turn-in, front-end feel, and chassis rigidity.

I actually have an allocation locked in on a 2023 M4 Comp.

Hear me out though... The more I look into the M240 the more is seems like the more reasonable choice.

I'm one of the few that actually doesn't mind the G80/G82 front end and think it looks pretty aggressive. That being said:

- The looks of the G42 M240 (particularly with some light mods like springs, spacers, carbon fiber treatment on the front and side splitters, rear diffuser, and quad exhaust is one of the best looking cars under $100k IMHO (I'd go Brooklyn Grey and CF accents... same I have planned for the M4).

- I live in a city in the Midwest. No canyons to carve or snake runs to be found. I like power and to take 90-degree turns quickly aside from a road trip with a solid backroad every few months.

- I like modding and personalizing my cars. I've done this with every car I've owned over the last 20 years I've been driving. Modding always comes with risk, but if I tune and (God forbid) blow a B58 in a M240 @ $10k to fix, it would suck, but certainly wouldn't ruin my finances... However, I'd probably tune the M4 and replacing a S58 at $30k, that cost is getting into seriously hurting the pocket-book territory.

- B58 sounds better. Don't think many would argue that.

- I have a FBO 2016 M235 Xdrive making just under 400whp on pump and a little more with E... though I rarely get to use the E due to availability. I enjoy my car still but my 2 main gripes are that it lacks top end and doesn't handle especially well. After researching what the B58 is capable of and how much better it handles.... it has me wondering if a $60k M240 with $5-6k in it would be a remarkably better value and give me 90%+ of a M4 but for $40k less? That's the part that keeps me up at night.

The money thing is more about value than affordability. I can afford either (thankfully), but I've always been someone that liked the value underdog. I know the new DME hasn't been cracked on the M240, but even with JB4 and downpipes it looks like people are getting up toward 450whp on pump. VERY interested to see what BM3 can do as that tune literally transformed my M235 (and that's with having JB on prior).

Thanks, all!

Yes 100%. Ive owned an F series M4 previously, loved it, then owned a few 911s but decided to put an G42 in the garage as a new daily and have been modding ever since.

I'm currently at Dinan intake, JB4 alpha map 6 and AA catted 300crll downpipe for approx 450whp on pump as you describe. Runs well. I'm also on MSS height adjustable springs. I have staggered 19/20inch rims being delivered next week adding an inch to the width all around. Next month he DmE is off to femto to unlock, MHD then a hybrid turbo which will see me out until the M2 arrives, if it lands with xdrive I will highly likely pull the trigger. If not I'll stick with G42.

[BeemerBaron]

I should add my modded G42 is (almost) as fun as my 2020 992 911 4S!

I love it great and it's only going to get better with the additional mods I'm sure.

[DTR235]

Originally Posted by Slingray

Yes 100%. Ive owned an F series M4 previously, loved it, then owned a few 911s but decided to put an G42 in the garage as a new daily and have been modding ever since.

I'm currently at Dinan intake, JB4 alpha map 6 and AA catted 300crll downpipe for approx 450whp on pump as you describe. Runs well. I'm also on MSS height adjustable springs. I have staggered 19/20inch rims being delivered next week adding an inch to the width all around. Next month he DmE is off to femto to unlock, MHD then a hybrid turbo which will see me out until the M2 arrives, if it lands with xdrive I will highly likely pull the trigger. If not I'll stick with G42.

You're going the exact route I'd likely take with mods. And same as you, if the M2 does come with Xdrive I will definitely scoop one up. I figure if they do that though, it would probably come out 8-12 months after the RWD version, then you have waits, allocations, etc... etc... Figure it would be 2 years (at best) before one would be in my garage, so a modded M240 would be something nice to have in the meantime... and if the M2 never comes with Xdrive, that would be the time to throw on a bigger turbo on the M240

Would love to see some pics of the car, or a link to the build thread if you have one!

Originally Posted by Slingray

I should add my modded G42 is (almost) as fun as my 2020 992 911 4S!

I love it great and it's only going to get better with the additional mods I'm sure.

Wow, that is VERY encouraging to hear. Really appreciate the input.

The next logical step (I think like a lot of folks) is to graduate to Porsche. Before I decided to go with the M4C, I was set on a used 911 4S or 911T, but as we're all aware, the used market on those shot up like 30-40% recently and it didn't make sense anymore.

[OriginalFake]

Have you driven them both? Personally I think you'll be fine going the route of modding the M240i they are still going to be two very different animals.