[T_U_D]

LMK if this has already been posted. Been swapped today.


https://www.bmwblog.com/2023/04/05/s...-m2-vs-g82-m4/


Edit, BTW, A BIG thank you to Horatiu for taking the time to write and publish this article.

[Tag]

I can't wait to see the "TH 4th Gear Challenge" amongst the G87, 1M, F87 M2C and F82 M4. What a great selection of cars to do this on!

#TH4GC

[JustinHEMI]

Should be stand alone thread anyway since the TH 4th gear challenge has its own thread. Let's put it to bed. From above,

"I revisited my driving footage – available here – to determine if I encountered any power-related difficulties with the six-speed manual. I distinctly recall conversing with a journalist from a mainstream car outlet the previous night, who commented on how effortless it was to operate the manual and how it was not a significant concern during both daily driving and cornering. But I don’t recall anything weird being said about this six-speed manual other than its typical character.

So this one use case where my vast experience behind the wheel of BMW cars might have stopped me from paying more attention to the gearing. What do I mean by that? Well, this is the very same six-speed manual that I’ve been enjoying in my 1M, then in the F87 M2, followed by the G80/G82 M3/M4, and now in the G87 M2. Of course, it has been slightly refined over time – mostly software tuning – but its DNA has not changed, in my opinion.

The six-speed manual gearbox in question has a stiff and rubbery feel, which takes several drives to become accustomed to. Its clutch has a high engagement point, and during initial use, it can result in rough and jerky shifts in lower gears. Moreover, the gear ratios are high, particularly in first gear, which I feel could be shorter to facilitate quicker shifts into second gear. Over time, I have realized that to obtain smooth shifting from this six-speed manual, I must hold the clutch at the grab point for a few milliseconds longer with no throttle input. Furthermore, the engine revs in first gear are not optimal for the second gear, rendering first gear useless in many situations. Therefore, I mostly shift immediately into second gear. Also for some reason, every time I drove a manual BMW after it was broken in, let’s say in a future test drive after the initial launch, I felt that clutch engagement and travel was better. Placebo effect? Not sure.


However, these are lessons that I have internalized, and they come to mind every time I operate a manual BMW. So it’s possible when I drove the manual G87 M2, my brain was already trained to account for these alleged shortcomings. But in this case, I have not felt at anytime that the car was lagging, also possibly because I was constantly down-shifting to be ready to floor the pedal.

In the end, my review highlighted my excitement for the manual M2. Not necessarily because it’s a better or worse transmission than the 8-speed automatic, but mostly because it’s more engaging, even in its own quirky way. Additionally, as I said, this is the last M2 of its kind and most likely, the last manual M car."





In other words, he knows how to drive a manual BMW and there's nothing wrong with the M6 G87.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by Tag

I can't wait to see the "TH 4th Gear Challenge" amongst the G87, 1M, F87 M2C and F82 M4. What a great selection of cars to do this on!

#TH4GC

Just to add the 1M is an E82.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

Just to add the 1M is an E82.

I know, but there's only one 1M so no need to include the model code.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by Tag

I know, but there's only one 1M so no need to include the model code.

Agreed!

[SW19]

Great insight from BMWBLOG and nice to hear that he thoroughly enjoyed the 6MT.I’m not surprised.I test drove a G80 back in December with the 6MT and didn’t have any issues with it.Looking forward to the review.

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

If they continue to stand by it, I hope they at least add the TH4GC to their standard repertoire for every car from here on out. I want to seem them do it with their Lotus.

I think it's a requirement that the do the #TH4GC from now on, otherwise it's obvious they created a problem that didn't exist.

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

If they continue to stand by it, I hope they at least add the TH4GC to their standard repertoire for every car from here on out. I want to seem them do it with their Lotus.

I just said in another thread yesterday that they better try it in their incoming lotus, or they are hacks, and they've gotta dip into 1800 rpms in 4th.

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

They said they stand by their review.

They created a problem where none exists.

My question is, will people that changed their order based on their review have 2nd 2nd thoughts?

I'm all for anyone that saw the #TH4GC switching to the 8AT, that way those of us that stick to it have cars that are even more rare.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by sl0m0

I'm all for anyone that saw the #TH4GC switching to the 8AT, that way those of us that stick to it have cars that are even more rare.

BMW said it's their last manual fully ICE M car. To swap to 8AT based on TH4GC is asinine, IMO, but we're lucky to still have a choice. Those of us that stayed the course will be rewarded.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by sl0m0

I just said in another thread yesterday that they better try it in their incoming lotus, or they are hacks, and they've gotta dip into 1800 rpms in 4th.

You may be unpleasantly surprised - that car is supercharged and lighter. It will likely pull away better than the G87...if it doesn't break down first.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

LMK if this has already been posted. Been swapped today.


https://www.bmwblog.com/2023/04/05/s...-m2-vs-g82-m4/


Edit, BTW, A BIG thank you to Horatiu for taking the time to write and publish this article.

I can imagine how embarrassed he was for us minions bashing TH in a BMW fanboy forum and he was like, let me put this to bed with a professional post that doesn't denigrate anyone, but definitely makes these G87 guys shut up and move on

Thank you HB.

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by zero21

You may be unpleasantly surprised - that car is supercharged and lighter. It will likely pull away better than the G87.

Oh I'm totally ok with it performing perfectly in that test.
They just need to do the test in the car to have any credibility. The fact that they exploited that difference, dropped the car to 1800rpm in 4th and then claimed there was zero power under 3500 rpms is just asinine. A proper review would have been to point out the difference in the power curve of the f87/g87 and what that means to the driving technique required, not just put it through a "test" and fail it with no context.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by sl0m0

Oh I'm totally ok with it performing perfectly in that test.
They just need to do the test in the car to have any credibility. The fact that they exploited that difference, dropped the car to 1800rpm in 4th and then claimed there was zero power under 3500 rpms is just asinine. A proper review would have been to point out the difference in the power curve of the f87/g87 and what that means to the driving technique required, not just put it through a "test" and fail it with no context.

It got even worse when they came to defend their review..., but I'm over it, not going to rehash it and continue to dwell on their silly test.

I promise, this is it, my last comment on it.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by sl0m0

Oh I'm totally ok with it performing perfectly in that test.
They just need to do the test in the car to have any credibility. The fact that they exploited that difference, dropped the car to 1800rpm in 4th and then claimed there was zero power under 3500 rpms is just asinine. A proper review would have been to point out the difference in the power curve of the f87/g87 and what that means to the driving technique required, not just put it through a "test" and fail it with no context.

No need to convince me. I showed my ass on Monday. I'm just saying.

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

It got even worse when they came to defend their review..., but I'm over it, not going to rehash it and continue to dwell on their silly test.

I promise, this is it, my last commend on it.

Do we need to have a sobriety pact on the topic? I'm not even offended about the test itself, it's the lack of integrity.
Ok ok, pact, let's move on.

I really really appreciate the guys at bmw blog taking up the topic, I hope in the video they make with TH they point out the lack of details and manipulation.

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by zero21

No need to convince me. I showed my ass on Monday. I'm just saying.

I saw you lose your cool a little, but you were just returning the favor so don't worry.

[T_U_D]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

BMW said it's their last manual fully ICE M car. To swap to 8AT based on TH4GC is asinine, IMO, but we're lucky to still have a choice. Those of us that stayed the course will be rewarded.

Agreed!

Reminder that several M engineers have specifically stated in various videos that there was much internal debate about even offering the manual and then the majority of them have stated that is what they are getting themselves.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

Agreed!

Reminder that several M engineers have specifically stated in various videos that there was much internal debate about even offering the manual and then the majority of them have stated that is what they are getting themselves.

Yep I remember that statement in the one video which is what makes me question whether or not future iterations of this car will have a manual, hence me jumping on one now. I'd wager real money that comp or CS versions will be auto only.

[sl0m0]

Originally Posted by T_U_D

Agreed!

Reminder that several M engineers have specifically stated in various videos that there was much internal debate about even offering the manual and then the majority of them have stated that is what they are getting themselves.

Them getting this car as a manual shows they aren't holding out for another potential manual in any of the later iterations, which for me solidifies my decision to get the "base" model instead of waiting and hoping the comp or cs to maybe come as manual.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Yep I remember that statement in the one video which is what makes me question whether or not future iterations of this car will have a manual, hence me jumping on one now. I'd wager real money that comp or CS versions will be auto only.

Originally Posted by sl0m0

Them getting this car as a manual shows they aren't holding out for another potential manual in any of the later iterations, which for me solidifies my decision to get the "base" model instead of waiting and hoping the comp or cs to maybe come as manual.

Great minds think alike.