[335i E92]

Sorry, another oil thread 😬

Has anyone used this in there M240i G42?

It’s API SP, BMW LL04 & LL19FE. It’s also ACEA 3 which means the HTHS is 3.5 offering better protection when pushing on.

I know it’s not a recommended oil but I’m in the camp that the thinner ACEA C2/C5 lower HTHS sub 3.0 oils are designed primarily to meet BMW CAFE economy/ emissions.


https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/F...EPP-CZQE8F.pdf

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by 335i E92

Sorry, another oil thread 😬

Has anyone used this in there M240i G42?

It’s API SP, BMW LL04 & LL19FE. It’s also ACEA 3 which means the HTHS is 3.5 offering better protection when pushing on.

I know it’s not a recommended oil but I’m in the camp that the thinner ACEA C2/C5 lower HTHS sub 3.0 oils are designed primarily to meet BMW CAFE economy/ emissions.


https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/F...EPP-CZQE8F.pdf

Have you bothered to observe the engine oil pressure? The engine oil pressure is quite low. And yet no one is reporting any engine problems arising from oiling issues.

Just use the oil the factory recommends/sanctions.

I asked my local dealer service department for a list of factory sanctioned oils/oil viscosities but have not received anything, but if you can get something official that 0w-30 oil is sanctioned by BMW to use in your car's engine then use it if you want.

With my Porsche cars I switched from 0w-40 to 5w-50 (not a typo for 15w-50!) as 5w50 was a sanctioned oil and where I lived temperatures didn't get that cold (32F was rare and any temperature below that even rarer...) but triple digits were common in the summer.

I now live in Benton County AR and it doesn't get quite as hot here but it does get colder than 32F so I have stayed with 0w-20 for my 230xi and 0w-30 for my M2.

[335i E92]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Have you bothered to observe the engine oil pressure? The engine oil pressure is quite low. And yet no one is reporting any engine problems arising from oiling issues.

Just use the oil the factory recommends/sanctions.

I asked my local dealer service department for a list of factory sanctioned oils/oil viscosities but have not received anything, but if you can get something official that 0w-30 oil is sanctioned by BMW to use in your car's engine then use it if you want.

With my Porsche cars I switched from 0w-40 to 5w-50 (not a typo for 15w-50!) as 5w50 was a sanctioned oil and where I lived temperatures didn't get that cold (32F was rare and any temperature below that even rarer...) but triple digits were common in the summer.

I now live in Benton County AR and it doesn't get quite as hot here but it does get colder than 32F so I have stayed with 0w-20 for my 230xi and 0w-30 for my M2.

Thanks for the input.

Are you saying that a none recommended 0w30 oil with ACEA 3 rather than ACEA 2 / 5 coukd have a significant impact on oil pressure to the point that it could toast the engine?

Please can you elaborate on this?

I’ve have several cars with B58’s, last one was an 2018 that ran without missing a beat on Castrol Edge 0w30. Are you aware of any significant mechanical changes to the B58 that now calls for such a thin economy oriented oil?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by 335i E92

Thanks for the input.

Are you saying that a none recommended 0w30 oil with ACEA 3 rather than ACEA 2 / 5 coukd have a significant impact on oil pressure to the point that it could toast the engine?

Please can you elaborate on this?

I’ve have several cars with B58’s, last one was an 2018 that ran without missing a beat on Castrol Edge 0w30. Are you aware of any significant mechanical changes to the B58 that now calls for such a thin economy oriented oil?

This oil will be fine, but where can you actually find it? The only readily available Castrol Euro 0W-30 is the A3/B4. A 3.5 HTHS oil will not damage this engine, quite the opposite.

He doesn't know what he's talking about regarding oil, btw, although I have to agree that you really won't go that wrong using what your manual specifies if you aren't tracking the car and keeping your oil temps reasonable.

[335i E92]

Originally Posted by chris719

This oil will be fine, but where can you actually find it? The only readily available Castrol Euro 0W-30 is the A3/B4. A 3.5 HTHS oil will not damage this engine, quite the opposite.

He doesn't know what he's talking about regarding oil, btw, although I have to agree that you really won't go that wrong using what your manual specifies if you aren't tracking the car and keeping your oil temps reasonable.

I’m in the UK and we have GPF so can’t use the A3/B4 oil. Hence I used this spec as it’s ACEA 3 low sulphur.

Castrol EDGE 0W-30 Engine Oil 4L https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0C816Z2...p_mob_ap_share


https://msdspds.castrol.com/msdspds/...579.1715464338

I was using the BMW approved longlife 12 FE Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 which is ACEA 5 and only 2.6 HTHS. I believe it’s a thinner version of 0w30 oil compared to Castrol Edge.

After a bit of research I wanted to move to a HTHS 3.5 for better oil sheer protection hence the move to C Edge 0w30.

One think I have noticed since changing to the Castro is the factory oil cooler cuts in a little sooner than when using the Mobile 1. I know when it actives as the temps quickly drop down from circa 108/109c to 105c when driving hard.

I’m guessing as it’s a slightly thicker 0w30 that it doesn’t disapate heat quite as quickly but would hope that it’s offering better protection being HTHS 3.5?

The only other explanation is that the slightly thicker Castrol Edge 0w30 isn’t passing through the tight tolerances of the bearings etc as quickly and is causing more heat and friction due to less effective lubrication? I’m hoping this isn’t the case.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by 335i E92

I’m in the UK and we have GPF so can’t use the A3/B4 oil. Hence I used this spec as it’s ACEA 3 low sulphur.

One think I have noticed since changing to the Castro is the factory oil cooler cuts in a little sooner than when using the Mobile 1. I know when it actives as the temps quickly drop down from circa 108/109c to 105c when driving hard.

I’m guessing as it’s a slightly thicker 0w30 that it doesn’t disapate heat quite as quickly but would hope that it’s offering better protection being HTHS 3.5?

The only other explanation is that the slightly thicker Castrol Edge 0w30 isn’t passing through the tight tolerances of the bearings etc as quickly and is causing more heat and friction due to less effective lubrication? I’m hoping this isn’t the case.

I see, didn't realize you were in the UK.

The thicker the oil the greater the frictional losses and so you will see slightly higher oil temps. However, this does not mean it's too thick or there is any issue. The clearance is not really an issue. If you look at graphs of viscosity vs temperature for motor oils, you'll see that viscosity rises exponentially as temperature goes down.

If the 3.5 HTHS 0W-30 was too thick at operating temperature, even your 0W-20 would be killing the engine on cold starts. For example: the Castrol LL17FE+ 0W-20 is 43 cSt at 40C while the LL04 0W-30 is 12.3 cSt at 100C. So, the 0W-20 at 40C is almost 4 times as thick as the 0W-30 at operating temperature. If the bearings were so tight that the 0W-30's 12.3 cSt at 100C was remotely problematic, the engine would be constantly in danger every time you started the car, even with the 0W-20.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by 335i E92

Thanks for the input.

Are you saying that a none recommended 0w30 oil with ACEA 3 rather than ACEA 2 / 5 coukd have a significant impact on oil pressure to the point that it could toast the engine?

Please can you elaborate on this?

I’ve have several cars with B58’s, last one was an 2018 that ran without missing a beat on Castrol Edge 0w30. Are you aware of any significant mechanical changes to the B58 that now calls for such a thin economy oriented oil?

I'm saying use the oil the factory calls for.

Why you would expect to get some expert oil advice from some unknown on the 'net vs. what the factory has to say is a real head scratcher.

If you believe so strongly you can pick a better oil any reason you use to justify your selection is equal to any other and equally wrong/invalid.

Thus you can pick the oil with the lowest price, prettiest bottle or what ever nonsense some oil "expert" on line spews out as gospel.

I'm not oil expert. But one has to believe the factory is as it it the factory's engine. One it designed built tested warranties and upon which its success as a car maker depends upon.

Use the factory recommended oil. Then get off the 'net and drive your car.

[AlexC2er]

Originally Posted by chris719

This oil will be fine, but where can you actually find it? The only readily available Castrol Euro 0W-30 is the A3/B4. A 3.5 HTHS oil will not damage this engine, quite the opposite.

He doesn't know what he's talking about regarding oil, btw, although I have to agree that you really won't go that wrong using what your manual specifies if you aren't tracking the car and keeping your oil temps reasonable.

Yeah I’m using liquid moly top tec 6600 0w20 ll17fe for streets then Castro 0w30 a3b4 ll01/ll01fe for track. Though I might change to heavier if I see temp is too high. First track day of this car is coming up soon (I hope).

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by 335i E92

Thanks for the input.

Are you saying that a none recommended 0w30 oil with ACEA 3 rather than ACEA 2 / 5 coukd have a significant impact on oil pressure to the point that it could toast the engine?

Please can you elaborate on this?

I’ve have several cars with B58’s, last one was an 2018 that ran without missing a beat on Castrol Edge 0w30. Are you aware of any significant mechanical changes to the B58 that now calls for such a thin economy oriented oil?

I mentioned oil pressure with the idea of using it to show how silly all the concern is about the factory oil being inadequate. All the focus is on finding a "thicker" oil with no mention of bumping oil pressure. My M2 hot idle oil pressure is down around 1 psi. Sometimes my 2024 BMW 230xi hot idle oil pressure is "0".

By way of comparison I could point out that at hot idle my 996 Turbo oil's pressure was 1.5 bar, or about 20psi. For my Hellcat oil pressure at 212F was 40psi. My Scat Pack the oil pressure was ~30psi.

All engines at higher RPMs the oil pressure would reach 60psi (although likely the oil pressure was higher). And stayed there. While under acceleration the oil pressure of my M2's engine climbs as the engine load decreases the oil pressure drops.

Clearly some auto makers: BMW, Porsche, MINI (well, BMW...) have found engines are woefully over oiled.

With an older engine (Porsche) at 6K RPMs the oil pump was required to pump 1 liter of oil per second. That's a lot of oil and a lot of parasitic load. And to have a pump that can deliver that amount of oil per second and at at least 60psi results in heating the oil quite a bit *before* it even gets the bearings.

Will add with the Turbo switching from 0w-40 to 5w-50 oil the hot idle oil pressure didn't change. The 5w-50 oil was a Porsche approved oil and had slightly better HTHS numbers compared to the 0w-40 oil.

But I drove the Turbo tens of thousands of miles with 0w-40 oil and in all kinds of weather with no problems.

To believe an auto maker, in this case BMW, would throw engine reliability/longevity under the bus for the sake of garnering a minuscule gain in fuel economy/emissions numbers is insane.

As for the question: "Are you aware of any significant mechanical changes to the B58 that now calls for such a thin economy oriented oil?"

AFAIK, none of my cars has the B58 engine.

My info is the M2 uses the S58 engine.

If you want more info about the B58 and S58 engines look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B58

But I don't think you will find any info on details that allow the engine to accommodate 0w-30 oil or even 0w-20 oil.

My advice -- which I have stated a number of times -- is stick with the factory oils. Approved oils.

Wanted to post a list of approved oils. So I asked my local BMW for a list of approved oils and received no list. (Unlike my experience with Porsche in which I asked for -- several times over a number of years -- and was give a multi page print out of approved oils for all regions of the world. Might mention each oil had the date at which its approval expired.)

I can understand the reluctance of BMW to provide a list of oils. BMW must keep tabs on all these oils to ensure they meet BMW's standards. It doesn't have the resources, doesn't want to fund the resources, to test/approve/monitor a number of oils. It has oils that it knows meet all the requirements and that's all that matters to BMW. BMW is not under any obligation to feed the insanity of owners seeking some magic oil for which the only qualification for being magic is it can't be what BMW calls for on the mistaken belief that BMW doesn't know what it is doing.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

I mentioned oil pressure with the idea of using it to show how silly all the concern is about the factory oil being inadequate. All the focus is on finding a "thicker" oil with no mention of bumping oil pressure. My M2 hot idle oil pressure is down around 1 psi. Sometimes my 2024 BMW 230xi hot idle oil pressure is "0".

By way of comparison I could point out that at hot idle my 996 Turbo oil's pressure was 1.5 bar, or about 20psi. For my Hellcat oil pressure at 212F was 40psi. My Scat Pack the oil pressure was ~30psi.

All engines at higher RPMs the oil pressure would reach 60psi (although likely the oil pressure was higher). And stayed there. While under acceleration the oil pressure of my M2's engine climbs as the engine load decreases the oil pressure drops.

Clearly some auto makers: BMW, Porsche, MINI (well, BMW...) have found engines are woefully over oiled.

With an older engine (Porsche) at 6K RPMs the oil pump was required to pump 1 liter of oil per second. That's a lot of oil and a lot of parasitic load. And to have a pump that can deliver that amount of oil per second and at at least 60psi results in heating the oil quite a bit *before* it even gets the bearings.

Will add with the Turbo switching from 0w-40 to 5w-50 oil the hot idle oil pressure didn't change. The 5w-50 oil was a Porsche approved oil and had slightly better HTHS numbers compared to the 0w-40 oil.

But I drove the Turbo tens of thousands of miles with 0w-40 oil and in all kinds of weather with no problems.

To believe an auto maker, in this case BMW, would throw engine reliability/longevity under the bus for the sake of garnering a minuscule gain in fuel economy/emissions numbers is insane.

As for the question: "Are you aware of any significant mechanical changes to the B58 that now calls for such a thin economy oriented oil?"

AFAIK, none of my cars has the B58 engine.

My info is the M2 uses the S58 engine.

If you want more info about the B58 and S58 engines look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_B58

But I don't think you will find any info on details that allow the engine to accommodate 0w-30 oil or even 0w-20 oil.

My advice -- which I have stated a number of times -- is stick with the factory oils. Approved oils.

Wanted to post a list of approved oils. So I asked my local BMW for a list of approved oils and received no list. (Unlike my experience with Porsche in which I asked for -- several times over a number of years -- and was give a multi page print out of approved oils for all regions of the world. Might mention each oil had the date at which its approval expired.)

I can understand the reluctance of BMW to provide a list of oils. BMW must keep tabs on all these oils to ensure they meet BMW's standards. It doesn't have the resources, doesn't want to fund the resources, to test/approve/monitor a number of oils. It has oils that it knows meet all the requirements and that's all that matters to BMW. BMW is not under any obligation to feed the insanity of owners seeking some magic oil for which the only qualification for being magic is it can't be what BMW calls for on the mistaken belief that BMW doesn't know what it is doing.

You should just stop at recommending the oil in the manual since the rest of this diatribe makes no sense. BMW also does have a list of all approved oils, they just wanted you to go away. Everything you need is in BMW TIS.

[Pentland]

Originally Posted by chris719

You should just stop at recommending the oil in the manual since the rest of this diatribe makes no sense.

Like many of his posts.