[Mr Friese]

I know one is a Chevy and the other is a Ford, but these cars are both putting up very impressive numbers with a good bang for the buck. Is anyone considering these as a potential replacement for their M3 or as another car to add to the stable? I think the M3 blows them away styling wise, but you can't deny their performance.

[az34]

you are right they do delivers, my pick is the boss, the camaro is too big and heavy for me.

[lcrain]

I think a better comparison would be zl1 vs. gt500. The boss will be a more capable handling car, similar to your m3. I think the zl1 and gt500 are just brute hammers for goin fast. Not to say that they can't handle well, I am sure they are pretty darn good there too. I believe Ford and Chevy had speed>handling in mind when the built these cars.

Go drive them and find out for yourself. I think coming from the bmw you might be disappointed with the interiors. The chevys looks like a child made it with the silly gauges, and the mustang is just whatever not bad but kinda boring. Both have that cheap plastic-y feel. I considered the mustang gt/302 before I got my 1m. The engine is spectacular. I could get over the interior I guess, but its nice to have all the cool stuff that looks good.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by lcrain

I think a better comparison would be zl1 vs. gt500. The boss will be a more capable handling car, similar to your m3. I think the zl1 and gt500 are just brute hammers for goin fast. Not to say that they can't handle well, I am sure they are pretty darn good there too. I believe Ford and Chevy had speed>handling in mind when the built these cars.

Go drive them and find out for yourself. I think coming from the bmw you might be disappointed with the interiors. The chevys looks like a child made it with the silly gauges, and the mustang is just whatever not bad but kinda boring. Both have that cheap plastic-y feel. I considered the mustang gt/302 before I got my 1m. The engine is spectacular. I could get over the interior I guess, but its nice to have all the cool stuff that looks good.

There was a ZL1 vs '12 Boss LS test already, and it actually showed the Maro handled some corners with more composure than the Boss, not just the straights. This is probably due to the IRS and Magnetorheological dampers. But yeah, if someone is considering the ZL1, the equivalent from Ford would be the GT500.

Also, there's quite a difference in interior options and accessories between the Boss and Shelby. The Boss's stereo is absolute crap and there's no nav available, stuff like that.... Shouldn't really bother people shopping for the Boss specifically, but if that's not the kind of car you have in mind, then the more GT-like GT500 would be better.

Only thing about the '13 GT500 I'd be worried about are the ADMs once they start arriving. I'm sure it will be hard to get one at MSRP. Also, don't believe anyone telling you that you can't get a Boss at MSRP. This has never been true.

[lcrain]

I was seriously considering a mustang of some sort, but I couldn't get over a few things. Most importantly in 2014 there will be a brand new one with IRS. I would be pissed if I bought a 2013 and a year later it is way out of date. Kinda like buying the 2010 gt and the next year they came out with the 5.0. Interior quality bothered me. Also, there is a certain stigma of people who drive mustangs...I don't want people to lump me into that category. When I told non-car people I was looking at a mustang they gave me quizzical
looks...like "are you serious, only assholes drive those." Not that all mustang owners are assholes, but there are a lot of them.

I only drove a 2011 or maybe it was a 2012 gt. They wouldn't let me drive a boss or a gt500, which I found lame. The engine was great really. From what I have read, the boss handles very well, which is an amazing feat for Ford considering it has a solid rear axle.

When the 2014 mustang comes out I will have a hard time ignoring it. Independent rear suspension with that coyote 5.0 engine. It will be a badass ride. They have proven they can make a very good performance car with a solid rear axle, give them independent rear suspension and I think we have an M3 killer on our hands.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by lcrain

"are you serious, only assholes drive those."

I only drove a 2011 or maybe it was a 2012 gt. They wouldn't let me drive a boss or a gt500, which I found lame. The engine was great really. From what I have read, the boss handles very well, which is an amazing feat for Ford considering it has a solid rear axle.

When the 2014 mustang comes out I will have a hard time ignoring it. Independent rear suspension with that coyote 5.0 engine. It will be a badass ride. They have proven they can make a very good performance car with a solid rear axle, give them independent rear suspension and I think we have an M3 killer on our hands.

No offense taken, first off I really think I might be an asshole, and secondly the same is said about us BMW drivers.

Ford has done a great job with the live rear axle, about as good as anyone will get without getting into sturdier LCAs and subassemblies that increase the rigidity of the system but sacrifice comfort.

I do not believe they will storm onto the scene with a perfected IRS setup within the first year or two. I'm sure there will be growing pains or subpar characteristics of some sort, followed by vast improvements after a year or two into the production run. I'm excited for the IRS Mustang too, but I'm excited for it after they take their time to sort it out properly. Until then, I'm enjoying my LRA and mullet wig which I bought the same day.

[lcrain]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

No offense taken, first off I really think I might be an asshole, and secondly the same is said about us BMW drivers.

Ford has done a great job with the live rear axle, about as good as anyone will get without getting into sturdier LCAs and subassemblies that increase the rigidity of the system but sacrifice comfort.

I do not believe they will storm onto the scene with a perfected IRS setup within the first year or two. I'm sure there will be growing pains or subpar characteristics of some sort, followed by vast improvements after a year or two into the production run. I'm excited for the IRS Mustang too, but I'm excited for it after they take their time to sort it out properly. Until then, I'm enjoying my LRA and mullet wig which I bought the same day.

I may be an asshole too...

I am assuming you have a gt 5.0? Have you done any mods to the engine?

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by lcrain

I may be an asshole too...

I am assuming you have a gt 5.0? Have you done any mods to the engine?

No, not a GT, but I have friends with the GT and they're having success with tunes, Boss mani swap, etc... But nothing near the gains/$ you get with the FI engines. Whipple/FRPP and KB S/Cs are popular too but I'm not so sure I'd really want to put a supercharger on such a good high compression NA engine.

[lcrain]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

No, not a GT, but I have friends with the GT and they're having success with tunes, Boss mani swap, etc... But nothing near the gains/$ you get with the FI engines. Whipple/FRPP and KB S/Cs are popular too but I'm not so sure I'd really want to put a supercharger on such a good high compression NA engine.

FI is where its at. Seems like thats where manufacturers are going in terms of "economy" performance. But thats kinda why I like the 5.0 so much. NA v8s are a dying breed and the 5.0 responds well to minor mods.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by lcrain

FI is where its at. Seems like thats where manufacturers are going in terms of "economy" performance. But thats kinda why I like the 5.0 so much. NA v8s are a dying breed and the 5.0 responds well to minor mods.

Agreed 100%

The Coyote is a great engine. Too bad Getrag has saddled it so bad thus far. Seems like Ford might have that under control now though. This is the first time a car buying decision for me had ever come down to the transmission between the two candidates. I've always been a big fan of Tremec, and the failures of the Getrag combined with Ford's insistence that nothing was wrong, was just too much for me to overlook. I think it's been solved though on all cars produced for the last I-don't-know-how-long, but I'd keep my eye on it to make sure if you're looking at a Boss or GT.

[lcrain]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Agreed 100%

The Coyote is a great engine. Too bad Getrag has saddled it so bad thus far. Seems like Ford might have that under control now though. This is the first time a car buying decision for me had ever come down to the transmission between the two candidates. I've always been a big fan of Tremec, and the failures of the Getrag combined with Ford's insistence that nothing was wrong, was just too much for me to overlook. I think it's been solved though on all cars produced for the last I-don't-know-how-long, but I'd keep my eye on it to make sure if you're looking at a Boss or GT.

I just took myself out of the market. Ended up with a 1M, which I really wanted in the first place. One popped up locally for sale and I jumped on it. One of my favorite things about it is the transmission honestly (along with other things!).

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by lcrain

I just took myself out of the market. Ended up with a 1M, which I really wanted in the first place. One popped up locally for sale and I jumped on it. One of my favorite things about it is the transmission honestly (along with other things!).

Good stuff man, can't go wrong with a 1M! That's a great car.

[z335is]

I test drove a boss before picking up my M3. Let me tell you, it is a very impressive machine. The only things that held me back were the interior, the "stigma factor" (which I could get over), and the fact that they wanted $7500 over MSRP. Otherwise, it performed amazingly.

As for the ZL1, it looks like it has a lot of potential. But to me, it still comes wrapped in that love it or hate it body with a ton of weight an no visibility. Plus, the price is encroaching on Corvette territory.

[Mr Friese]

I saw this on the Chevy website where it lists competitors for the ZL1, pretty interesting / bold:

"2012 BMW 3 Series M Coupe

Camaro ZL1 blows BMW 3 Series M Coupe right off the pavement with its 580 horsepower 6.2-liter supercharged V8—the 4.0-liter V8 on the M3 Coupe gets you a horsepower of only 414. And it only gets worse for torque: While ZL1 weighs in with a mighty 556 lb.-ft. of torque, the M3 coupe gets you 295 lb.-ft. of available torque. Their Electronic Damping Control system in the M3 Coupe offers one performance setting: Sport. The Performance Traction Management system in ZL1, which includes the highly advanced Magnetic Ride shocks, has five standard settings for sport and track, taking both wet and dry conditions, as well as driver skill, into account."

[Vigilante375]

If you want a car with quality interior then get a BMW but if you want a performance machine then get a Boss 302 or the ZL1. Me personally, would get a CTS-V Wagon (luxury, performance and carry a smurf load of stuff). But if I had to choose between these 2 in discussion, it would be the Boss 302 not the LS hands down.

I looked and sat inside of a new '12 Camaro when I was in the market and it really made me dislike it. I hate the new Camaro; over weight, cheap interior (my 92 Camaro has a better interior), trunk is big but the opening is small as hell, sun visors are worthless, stupid plastic crap on the inside door, etc.....Only thing I didn't like about the Mustang is just the usually useless back seats. Everything else was ok but I didn't get the 5.0 because of the engine and transmission issue's.

You can buy a 5.0, upgrade the suspension pieces, add a S/C and destroy the ZL1 with money left over. Or you can go buy a Boss 302, add a S/C and blow the ZL1 out of the water in everything, straight line or a road course. IMO, the ZL1 is being over rated and is a good car but not that great. Ford has really stepped up their game with the V6 engine, 5.0 engine, Boss 302 and the soon to be released '13 GT500. But to each their own.

[krnnerdboy]

ROFL! When I was shopping for a boss/z06 my friends all gave me that wtf look? And asked if I needed a mullet to go with my car Even my wife was in strong disagreement and thought I'd jump out of it within 6 month(which I'm known to do) In the end I ended up with the boss @ MSRP and have enjoyed half a dozen track days in the last couple month.

My biggest growing pain in the swap was the interior, as mentioned by others. And to be completely honest, if this was my only car, I couldn't do it. I would have an m3,1m, or a c63. And if you frequent the boss forums, I'd say the majority have multiple cars, which proves my point. The zl1 would be a better option over the boss for a daily IMO.

I would have to say the grin factor is greater in the boss than my z4m, 997.1 base, or e92 m3 on the track

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by krnnerdboy

ROFL! When I was shopping for a boss/z06 my friends all gave me that wtf look? And asked if I needed a mullet to go with my car Even my wife was in strong disagreement and thought I'd jump out of it within 6 month(which I'm known to do) In the end I ended up with the boss @ MSRP and have enjoyed half a dozen track days in the last couple month.

My biggest growing pain in the swap was the interior, as mentioned by others. And to be completely honest, if this was my only car, I couldn't do it. I would have an m3,1m, or a c63. And if you frequent the boss forums, I'd say the majority have multiple cars, which proves my point. The zl1 would be a better option over the boss for a daily IMO.

I would have to say the grin factor is greater in the boss than my z4m, 997.1 base, or e92 m3 on the track

When I talk to some of my non car guy and girl friends and tell them I'm interested in the GT500 I get that look. My wife gave me that look until I showed her picks and vids of the car. She thinks I should stick with BMW or at least a vette but she is definitely coming around.

Some even say thats going backwards from a BMW and didn't you grow out of mustangs in high school?

The zl1 might be a better option over the boss for a daily but not the 13 GT500.