[ybbiz34]

With respect to the W212 E-Class, the "new" body style that just recently debuted in '13 was not a re-design, it was just a LCI/facelift. People seem to forget that.

Finally, the first round of "informed speculation" regarding the next E-Class has dropped (thanks to Car Magazine).

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-...s-new-saloon2/

I'll post the text here in case anyone has trouble accessing the article.

The Mercedes E-class – which not long ago was Mercedes’ cash cow – will be overhauled for 2016, in a bid to boost its appeal and revive sales. The new car, codenamed W213, will mix style and substance, overflow with space-age gadgets, pack brand new engines and spawn sports cars and a seven-seater. Here’s all the juicy stuff . . .

Style over space

Think E-class means upright saloon and huge wagon? Think again. The new model has a new platform, unlocking sportier proportions. It’s wider, lower, has shorter overhangs and, despite a longer wheelbase, less loadspace and headroom. The upside could be dynamism to give Jaguar a fright. The look apes the new S-class and C-class, with lower grille, chunkier bumpers and four LED headlamps. One sore point: there’s no C-class-style 100kg weight loss – blame the high cost of lightweight materials.

Cool kit

The E-class will be dripping with amazing gadgets. The head-up display incorporates augmented reality, relaying information about your surroundings. The next step in autonomous driving will be an ‘autobahn mode’, with the car driving you at up to 80mph. Specify Magic Body Control and the ride refinement should be spectacular: cameras spy undulations up ahead, and the car hydraulically adjusts the damping to dial out bumps. Find that car park, step out and let the E-class park itself.

Engine revolution

Here’s a sea-change: Benz is ditching the V6 for in-line sixes, last used in 1999. It’s to boost efficiency, and copies BMW’s approach of pairing cylinders of around 500cc, to create in-line three-, four- or six-cylinder powerpacks as required. Petrol and diesel fours and sixes are able to share 60% of all parts, cutting costs by 35%. The petrol six will range from 200 to 400bhp. Turbocharged fours, coupled to six-speed manual ’boxes, power base cars, with a nine-speed auto option. In top spec the diesel six will top 300bhp.
Ace cockpit

Mercedes is keen to restore its reputation for creating the gold standard in cabin quality. Building on the S-class’s interior, the E will unleash a host of new features. It needs two full-size colour monitors to handle its complexity, with one even screening images of your hand to help you use the controlling touchpad without looking down! The sat-nav can guide you via real images, and the window tint adjusts to suit varying privacy needs. Efficient electric surface heating will eliminate some air vents.

Hybrids and AMG

That’s where e-motors come in. Merc is plotting two plug-in hybrid modules, boosting power by either 80bhp or 110bhp, to supplement the engines. They’re not just about power: expect a 30-mile zero emissions range too. There will also be a mild-hybrid option, with 40bhp and just a three-mile range. While coupling the sixes and e-motors will provide decent performance, petrol V8s survive. Phew! So the E63 AMG, expected in 2017, will run a 4.0-litre V8, packing around 600bhp and 553lb ft of torque. The current M5 – with 552bhp and 0-62mph in 4.5sec – looks in peril.

Funky body styles

The E-class will spawn a CLS four-door coupe, plus two-door coupe and soft-top versions. This time, they’ll be true to their badging: the current E-class two-doors are based on C-class mechanicals, so their successors will offer more space and all those gadgets. The jury is still out on replacing the new-to-market CLS Shooting Brake, and introducing a new ‘SportCruiser’ model. Think of this as a successor to the R-class: it’ll be 150mm longer, with seven seats.

[wisesoul]

600 HP and 553 ft-lbs with 4 liters! Impressive! New E63 should be a monster. I can slowly(but surely) walk the current one with the M157, so the new one will prove to be a challenge

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by wisesoul

600 HP and 553 ft-lbs with 4 liters! Impressive! New E63 should be a monster. I can slowly(but surely) walk the current one with the M157, so the new one will prove to be a challenge

Wow are you tuned or stock?

From a dig, I would think that the E63/E63-S would have the clear edge because of the 4MATIC. But from a roll, I can definitely see an F10 pulling a couple of lengths ahead as the speeds climb.

[wisesoul]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Wow are you tuned or stock?

From a dig, I would think that the E63/E63-S would have the clear edge because of the 4MATIC. But from a roll, I can definitely see an F10 pulling a couple of lengths ahead as the speeds climb.

Stock. I have an Eisenmann rear section, but it adds probably no power. From a dig, I would have probably zero chance up to triple digits if it was a 63 4matic. I raced a CLS 63 Performance Pack (rwd version) from a roll and ran away from it consistently from 40-1xx. I'd imagine the 4matic being a disadvantage at speed. With the new one having 600 HP, I'm sure that outcome would change a bit.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by wisesoul

Stock. I have an Eisenmann rear section, but it adds probably no power. From a dig, I would have probably zero chance up to triple digits if it was a 63 4matic. I raced a CLS 63 Performance Pack (rwd version) from a roll and ran away from it consistently from 40-1xx. I'd imagine the 4matic being a disadvantage at speed. With the new one having 600 HP, I'm sure that outcome would change a bit.

That's awesome! Nice job against the CLS63. The new M5 and M6 are just unbelievably powerful for RWD cars.

[SCOTT26]

blame the high cost of lightweight materials.

Advantage 5er. New report coming soon.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Advantage 5er. New report coming soon.

Banging a drum about taking the weight off of the 5er is sort of like Lindsey Lohan saying she's less drunk today than yesterday. The F10 (and E60 too) 5er got comically fat, it has nowhere to go but down.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Banging a drum about taking the weight off of the 5er is sort of like Lindsey Lohan saying she's less drunk today than yesterday. The F10 (and E60 too) 5er got comically fat, it has nowhere to go but down.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Advantage 5er. New report coming soon.

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Banging a drum about taking the weight off of the 5er is sort of like Lindsey Lohan saying she's less drunk today than yesterday. The F10 (and E60 too) 5er got comically fat, it has nowhere to go but down.

Ha, so true.

[TheBingoBalls]

Like the new C-Class, the E-Class is going to follow the same formula. Give dynamics the middle finger and put the other cars in this segment to shame with pure luxury only Mercedes can provide. Will Mercedes drop weight? Perhaps but when you just want a full out luxury car, don't think you're too worried or bothered by weight (unless you're over bloated to S-Class levels) and if you are, the E-Class isn't for you.

Would I ever consider a Mercedes? Not likely but I love this direction they're going and this attitude they're showing, it's basically "F--k you. We're Mercedes. We build the best luxury cars and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it."

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Like the new C-Class, the E-Class is going to follow the same formula. Give dynamics the middle finger and put the other cars in this segment to shame with pure luxury only Mercedes can provide. Will Mercedes drop weight? Perhaps but when you just want a full out luxury car, don't think you're too worried or bothered by weight (unless you're over bloated to S-Class levels) and if you are, the E-Class isn't for you.

Would I ever consider a Mercedes? Not likely but I love this direction they're going and this attitude they're showing, it's basically "F--k you. We're Mercedes. We build the best luxury cars and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it."

For the standard cars, I think this is exactly the direction they're going.

However, with the AMG cars, they're becoming more dynamic than they have ever been before.

You look at recent reviews of the LCI C63 (putting down faster lap times than the E9X M3 on certain tracks, winning comparison tests against Quattro/RS cars, etc.), the CLA45 (getting knocked because it's too hard to break the rear end loose . . . on an AMG), and the E63-S with 4-MATIC (great grip, great steering feel, 11.5-second 1/4 mile times stock) and it's apparent that the AMG cars are no longer just mere straight line monsters.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

All of these are speculation by Car Magazine. Mercedes-Benz's development boss has already stated the E Class is going on a severe diet, and it could come in the form of up to 200kg. Yes, it's an old article, but it's direct from the horses mouth.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2011...ent-boss-26821

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Like the new C-Class, the E-Class is going to follow the same formula. Give dynamics the middle finger and put the other cars in this segment to shame with pure luxury only Mercedes can provide. Will Mercedes drop weight? Perhaps but when you just want a full out luxury car, don't think you're too worried or bothered by weight (unless you're over bloated to S-Class levels) and if you are, the E-Class isn't for you.

Would I ever consider a Mercedes? Not likely but I love this direction they're going and this attitude they're showing, it's basically "F--k you. We're Mercedes. We build the best luxury cars and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it."

This is true for the regular cars. Mercedes finally found out that they the best Mercedes-Benz, not the best BMW. That's what's going to distinguish the car from the pack.

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

That's awesome! Nice job against the CLS63. The new M5 and M6 are just unbelievably powerful for RWD cars.

Dare I say, a bit too powerful for RWD....especially with their weight.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Oh and Car Mag reviews the F10 M5, vs E63 AMG S vs Audi RS7: Guess who wins?

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...14-CAR-review/

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Rev ///Me

Oh and Car Mag reviews the F10 M5, vs E63 AMG S vs Audi RS7: Guess who wins?

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...14-CAR-review/

Winner in this segment are all over the place. There's not a clear winner like the M3 vs C63 vs RS5 where almost all chose the M3.

Some will pick the E63 AMG-S because it's more power/torque. Others will pick the M5 because despite its flaws, it's still the most balanced car and no one is touching the DCT and chassis. Some will pick the RS7 because sometimes one needs AWD for bad weather. It's only fitting the results will be al over the place because these cars are just cruisers that you almost never see on a track, you just have to pick how you want to get to your destination.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Winner in this segment are all over the place. There's not a clear winner like the M3 vs C63 vs RS5 where almost all chose the M3.

Some will pick the E63 AMG-S because it's more power/torque. Others will pick the M5 because despite its flaws, it's still the most balanced car and no one is touching the DCT and chassis. Some will pick the RS7 because sometimes one needs AWD for bad weather. It's only fitting the results will be al over the place because these cars are just cruisers that you almost never see on a track, you just have to pick how you want to get to your destination.

Same can be said about the M3 vs C63 vs RS5.

The on it's way out C63 has loads of torque, the M3 was very balanced, and the RS5 sported Audi's infamous Quattro. For the record, after the facelift on the C63, the tides turned pretty drastically, and the C63 was pretty much the #1 choice. None of these cars are 'sporty' in any sense. They're sportier then the regular cars, but underneath the skin, they're GT cars, just like their older brothers.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Rev ///Me

All of these are speculation by Car Magazine. Mercedes-Benz's development boss has already stated the E Class is going on a severe diet, and it could come in the form of up to 200kg. Yes, it's an old article, but it's direct from the horses mouth.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2011...ent-boss-26821

For Mercedes to go that light. They should have a car like the i3 in production now and in volume production for CFRP at this moment.

They are not.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Rev ///Me

Oh and Car Mag reviews the F10 M5, vs E63 AMG S vs Audi RS7: Guess who wins?

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...14-CAR-review/

I had not seen that review yet. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing!

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Winner in this segment are all over the place. There's not a clear winner like the M3 vs C63 vs RS5 where almost all chose the M3.

Some will pick the E63 AMG-S because it's more power/torque. Others will pick the M5 because despite its flaws, it's still the most balanced car and no one is touching the DCT and chassis. Some will pick the RS7 because sometimes one needs AWD for bad weather. It's only fitting the results will be al over the place because these cars are just cruisers that you almost never see on a track, you just have to pick how you want to get to your destination.

I've driven every E9X M3 variant (sedan, coupe, 'vert) over the years. The LCI models got some exterior cosmetic upgrades and a new version of the iDrive.

I've also driven both the pre-LCI C63 and the LCI model (which I now have). In 2012, the C63 got more than a few exterior/interior cosmetic changes. It received revised cooling, a new transmission (MCT in lieu of standard automatic w/ torque converter), and an entirely revamped suspension (among other things).

Prior to 2012, I would have said that the C63, while extremely fun, was not as sharp as the M3. Post-2012, I would say the E9X M3's only advantages are the DCT (which is noticeably more responsive in M Mode but a bit clunkier around town) and weighing less (it doesn't snap back as violently as the C63 does when correcting oversteer).

The LCI C63's steering feel is outstanding. It's communicative, satisfyingly heavy, and consistent. You really have a great sense of the road surface and what the front tires/wheels are experiencing. The suspension is on the firm side but overall, the damping feels just right to me. The car's handling is very neutral and the turn-in feeling is phenomenal.

I'm confident that with the W205's weight loss, it will retain these attributes. It will have to if the F80 M3 turns out to be as good as advertised.

Originally Posted by Rev ///Me

Same can be said about the M3 vs C63 vs RS5.

The on it's way out C63 has loads of torque, the M3 was very balanced, and the RS5 sported Audi's infamous Quattro. For the record, after the facelift on the C63, the tides turned pretty drastically, and the C63 was pretty much the #1 choice. None of these cars are 'sporty' in any sense. They're sportier then the regular cars, but underneath the skin, they're GT cars, just like their older brothers.

Beat me to it. I like the fact that I can track my C63 but if I was an absolute track junkie (hoping to have the time at some point), I would have a Porsche.