[ChineseGuy]

I'm kind of confused with Porsche's engine layout

With most 911's rear engine layout, and rear wheel drive system, wouldn't the car be oversteering a little too much?

and with such little weight in the front wheels, wouldn't that tend to understeer too?

the only advantage for having RR is basically the extra grip because of all the weight...but other than that....i cant think of anything...

anyone have a clue why porsche would use RR, or AWD on rear engine for their 911's?

[imolazhp_ci]

they are tail happy cars and for most skilled drivers oversteer is a good thing.

[ChineseGuy]

Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci

they are tail happy cars and for most skilled drivers oversteer is a good thing.

i know oversteer is somwhat good, but wouldn't it have TOO MUCH oversteer with all the weight there?

[CnoteMD]

Generally, the Porsche 911 design would be very prone to oversteer, and they used to be that way in the early days. However, they have spent MANY years perfecting the design and they aren't as nearly "tail happy" as they used to be.

Much of the improvement has come from widening the rear and using very wide tires on the rear compared to the front. For example, the E90/E92 sport package comes with 225 front and 255 rear tires. The 911 S models come with 235 front and 295 or 305 rear tires. During my drives of Porsche 911's (including a few laps on the track at Lime Rock), it actually felt very balanced in the curves.

[Year's_End]

Yeah I've noticed how fat the 'hips' have gotten on the 911's. I'm sure PASM accounts for a lot of the drivability as well.

[FirstClass]

The design of the 911, by all standards of physics, should drive utterly horribly. Yet, somehow, Porsche has made it work, and not merely work but perform brilliantly, and in so doing made it into the veritable icon it is today.

[spacedogg]

Originally Posted by ChineseGuy

I'm kind of confused with Porsche's engine layout

With most 911's rear engine layout, and rear wheel drive system, wouldn't the car be oversteering a little too much?

and with such little weight in the front wheels, wouldn't that tend to understeer too?

the only advantage for having RR is basically the extra grip because of all the weight...but other than that....i cant think of anything...

anyone have a clue why porsche would use RR, or AWD on rear engine for their 911's?

Yes...you are right. The engine is in the wrong place. There is no real substantial advantage (other than off the line traction) by having the engine in the rear of the car. Basically the Porsche engineers were stubborn with their original design and kept at it.

They have perfected the suspension and chassis so that now, despite the engine being in the wrong place it handles just as well as a well sorted out FR or MR car. It gives the car its very distinctive shape and gives a bit of character to the car as well.

[Year's_End]

I wonder how far the design can possibly go. I think it's getting rather old now dont'cha think? I wish that they'd invest more R&D into their mid-engine vehicles instead...they have far more potential.

[ChineseGuy]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

I wonder how far the design can possibly go. I think it's getting rather old now dont'cha think? I wish that they'd invest more R&D into their mid-engine vehicles instead...they have far more potential.

Cayman S?

good enough.....

[spacedogg]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

I wonder how far the design can possibly go. I think it's getting rather old now dont'cha think? I wish that they'd invest more R&D into their mid-engine vehicles instead...they have far more potential.

Yeah...I suspect that's why their flagship Carrera GT is a MR.

But so far the 911 line handles on par, if not better, than most cars in its class. Sales are still strong. Don't think Porsche will change anything for the forseeable future.

If, sales figures demand it, Porsche will likely revert to a MR design...but we're still a long way off from that. As other manufacturers improve their FR and MR designs, I'm sure Porsche will continue to tweak the RR design to keep up...which will mean sales will continue to be healthy.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by ChineseGuy

Cayman S?

good enough.....

Hardly. It was obviously under-engineered so that the 911 would remain at the top.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by spacedogg

Yeah...I suspect that's why their flagship Carrera GT is a MR.

But so far the 911 line handles on par, if not better, than most cars in its class. Sales are still strong. Don't think Porsche will change anything for the forseeable future.

If, sales figures demand it, Porsche will likely revert to a MR design...but we're still a long way off from that. As other manufacturers improve their FR and MR designs, I'm sure Porsche will continue to tweak the RR design to keep up...which will mean sales will continue to be healthy.

Very true, that makes sense. I wonder if the RR design will eventually plateau though...I mean...what if there's nothing left to tweak considerably? I dunno. It just seems like it should have been obsolete by now. I guess that's just what makes it so special. Kind of bothers me how it defies the rule book lol.

[maq]

MR = 2 seater, something the non-GT 911s cannot be. IMO Porsche should start doing FR again. The 944 and 968 were some of the best FR cars ever made. Once they have a new 2+2 coupe, they can turn the 911 into a MR car. I reckon they can keep the classic 911 shape too. With the rear seat gone, if they just turn the engine and tranny around, the flat-6 would be right in front of the rear axle with the tranny sticking out to the rear, no need to move anything.

[S_M]

Its the soul of the car. If youve driven one you understand. If youve driven one at the limit you understand even more. The 930 turbo is probably one of the most challenging cars of all time to drive fast, but once you learn it, it provides an experience like nothing else. Truth is it doesnt make sense, but Porsche is able to make it seem so right time and time again.

Ive driven them all, from 930's to 993tt's to 997 gt3's to rs americas. Even the most basic models are so dynamic in driving feedback, any other car just feels like a bus. I doubt you'll see the day when a 911 doesnt have an engine in the back, or at least I hope the day never comes. Soon enough you may see a flat 8 in the back though, which will probably go over even worse than the end of the aircooled cars...

No MR car will ever create the colt following of the 911. In my mind there is nothing better, and maybe thats why theres two of them in my garage

[ToddPhilly]

The other thing to consider is that while they are weight biased to the rear, they have done a lot to get weight over the front tires as well (even more so in the C4 models). Gas tank, battery, spare tire, radiators up front (just like battery and gas tank in the back on our bimmers). The ultra-wide tires in the rear help as well. Having driven a 996 C4S on the track, there's just something awesome about powering out of turns with the butt planted down and the engine roaring. Like someone said above, if you've driven one you'd understand. I certainly hope the RR design doesn't go anywhere anytime soon...I'm hoping my next car is a 911!