[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

Did anyone expect any less after VW bought Porsche 6 years ago?

Except it didn't work that way. Porsche bought VW.

Porsche AG is headquartered in Stuttgart, and is owned by Volkswagen AG, which is itself majority-owned by Porsche Automobil Holding SE.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Except it didn't work that way. Porsche bought VW.

Porsche AG is headquartered in Stuttgart, and is owned by Volkswagen AG, which is itself majority-owned by Porsche Automobil Holding SE.

VW Group owns all of the brands. Not the other way around. It may be a good thing for a VW to become like a Porsche but not the other way around.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Except it didn't work that way. Porsche bought VW.

Porsche AG is headquartered in Stuttgart, and is owned by Volkswagen AG, which is itself majority-owned by Porsche Automobil Holding SE.

Close. Technically Porsche got ambitious and attempted to buy VW. Their takeover ultimately failed and left them in a vulnerable position which then allowed VW to turn the table and buy Porsche instead. Below is from Automobilemag.com that does a pretty decent job explaining the sequence of events.



https://www.automobilemag.com/news/p...what-happened/
Porsche chairman Wendelin Wiedeking and his deputy, money man, and chief strategist Holger Härter hatch a secret plan to take control of Volkswagen, which sells sixty times as many cars.

Porsche begins buying up VW shares. The purchases are first revealed in mid-2005, when Porsche shocks the financial world with the announcement that it plans to acquire more than 20 percent of the VW Group and become the largest single shareholder.

By mid-2006, Porsche’s stake reaches 25 percent, and by March 2007 it’s 30 percent. But “a complete takeover is not our intention,” says Wiedeking. “Instead, we want to protect one of the world’s biggest carmakers from corporate-raiding locusts.”

In October 2008, sitting on a fat, 42.6 percent block of VW shares (and with options to purchase another 31.5 percent), Wiedeking finally admits his intentions for Porsche SE Holding to take over 75 percent of VW shares during the course of 2009.

As Porsche’s buying pushes up VW’s stock price, Porsche purchases options to buy more shares, and those options zoom in value as the stock price continues to climb. Profits from these financial manipulations soon exceed Porsche’s profits from carmaking, an unprecedented event in German business history.

Reaching the 75 percent threshold would trigger the ominous “domination and profit transfer” contract, the true essence of the deal. At that point, Porsche would have the ability to clean out VW’s coffers and receive an immediate €8 billion ($11.4 billion) cash back on its purchase.

The worldwide financial system hits an iceberg in the fall of 2008, and the banks won’t lend Wiedeking any more money to complete the acquisition. In fact, they begin to call in their loans – triggering a liquidity crisis at Porsche.

In the spring, Wiedeking goes looking for an outside investor and finds one in the emir of Qatar. But VW’s Ferdinand Piëch, together with Christian Wulff, the premiere of Lower Saxony (which has a 20 percent stake in VW), and German chancellor Angela Merkel advise cash-rich sheikhs to invest not with Porsche but instead divert their funds to Wolfsburg.

Porsche essentially collapses into the arms of VW; the merger is to be completed in 2011. The Porsche and Piëch families, which control Porsche’s voting shares, must kick in to help ease the €9 billion ($13 billion) debt burden that Porsche brings with it. The once-independent sports-car maker – which Wiedeking boasted was the world’s most profitable auto company – will become the VW Group’s tenth brand, on par with Audi and Bentley.

On July 23, 2009, Wiedeking, Härter, and Porsche admit defeat. The CEO, who last year enjoyed an American-style payday of €80 million ($114 million), grabs another €50 million ($71 million) on his way out the door. Härter is booted as well; he grabs €12.5 million ($18 million). Michael Macht becomes Porsche’s new chief executive.

[stevenvillatoro]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

Is that anything like masquerading?

Mascarading is what women do when they get ready to go out. They paint their grills (sic pun).

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

VW Group owns all of the brands. Not the other way around. It may be a good thing for a VW to become like a Porsche but not the other way around.

VW Group is the parent company, but it's controlled by Porsche SE. It's a convoluted deal, and as the previous post noted, in Germany 75% ownership is required for actual controlling interest, but in reality, the 51% share that Porsche owns is effectively in control of all decisions.

[IMG]https://www.motorward.com/wp-content...vw-merger1.jpg[/IMG]

[Red Bread]

And Wiedeking was a moron and his tall ass was responsible for the first gen Hunchback of Panamera. Glad he's gone.

[KevinGS]

Porsche will be fine...people will keep buying them. But it's good that there's more competition for them to consider.

I just wish they put more NA engines and manual transmissions in more of their cars (not just the GTs). I still want a 997 GT3, but who doesn't?

[eluded]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

I just wish they put more NA engines and manual transmissions

Unfortunately those days are behind us. As everyone flocked to automatic and lame cars the world turned electric. Now if I want to fast car I buy a Tesla.

[DieselDiner]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

VW Group is the parent company, but it's controlled by Porsche SE. It's a convoluted deal, and as the previous post noted, in Germany 75% ownership is required for actual controlling interest, but in reality, the 51% share that Porsche owns is effectively in control of all decisions.

[IMG]https://www.motorward.com/wp-content...vw-merger1.jpg[/IMG]

Here's an explanation I found elsewhere, only the Germans could do something this convoluted:

The owners of Porsche (the Porsche and Piech families) created a separate company (Porsche SE) for the sole purpose of managing Porsche AG (the car manufacturing division). And so, Porsche SE owned 100% of Porsche AG which is responsible for actually building the sports cars we all love.

Porsche SE sold about 50% of Porsche AG to VW, but at the same time, Porsche SE (again, controlled by the Porsche and Piech families) bought a little over 50% of the entire VW Group. Years later, Porsche SE sold the remaining 50% to the VW Group but by that time, the Porsches and Pieches had already gotten a comfortable 50% majority of the entire VW Group.

So basically, the owners of Porsche bought (the controlling majority) of the VW Group and later just allowed VW to take control of the Porsche brand which will be controlled by them any way. So in terms of companies, if we consider the fact that Porsche SE doesn't really build cars and is not the "Porsche" we usually refer to, you could say VW owns Porsche, BUT in terms of stockholders, Porsche definitely owns VW.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by eluded

Unfortunately those days are behind us. As everyone flocked to automatic and lame cars the world turned electric. Now if I want to fast car I buy a Tesla.

Yes, this is so sad. But in terms of efficiency, I guess you can't be small engines with turbos to boost the power. When you combine a small electric motor with a turbo-charged engine, you can almost get linear power delivery (no lag), so in the name of progress, it'll all work itself out.

But I will always keep a high-revving naturally-aspirated car around, just for nostalgia.....and the thrills.