[akkando]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

Why would the G87 be the last gasoline powered M car? Has this been confirmed by BMW?

I think there's plenty of demand for gasoline powered sports cars, doesn't make sense why BMW wouldn't have at least one ICE M car w/ a stick in its lineup. An M2 makes the most sense to keep the slot filled.

Won't matter if there is demand if they're not legal to sell. By 2030 you're going to start to see markets that will not sell ICE cars, even if people want them.

[ESB]

Originally Posted by akkando

Won't matter if there is demand if they're not legal to sell. By 2030 you're going to start to see markets that will not sell ICE cars, even if people want them.

Yep my state in the US already said that no MY2030+ cars sold can be gas powered.

I wouldn't be too surprised if that gets pushed back a bit as the year gets closer and closer.

Time will tell.

[chris719]

The M4 CSL seems underwhelming for a "CSL". That's closer to what a CS should be. It seems less extreme than the GTS was even if it's better executed.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ESB

Yep my state in the US already said that no MY2030+ cars sold can be gas powered.

I wouldn't be too surprised if that gets pushed back a bit as the year gets closer and closer.

Time will tell.

What's a company supposed to do though. The more they fuck around with ICE and hybrid the farther behind they are to Tesla and anyone else when it comes to EVs and a charging network.

[MooMooM2]

Originally Posted by chris719

The M4 CSL seems underwhelming for a "CSL". That's closer to what a CS should be. It seems less extreme than the GTS was even if it's better executed.

well the GTS is track focused and CSL is not and why its not so extreme. But yeah the lines get blured btw it and the CS for sure, has a few carbon pieces, has some more power and some light weighting. I feel like the biggest difference is a tiny bit more light-weighting, the trunk and the decals and red accent look. If it really is 170+ I think it is a bit too much for what it offers

[Steelguin]

Originally Posted by ESB

Yep my state in the US already said that no MY2030+ cars sold can be gas powered.

I wouldn't be too surprised if that gets pushed back a bit as the year gets closer and closer.

Time will tell.

Its going to be pushed back. There isn't infrastructure for all electric cars.

[ESB]

Originally Posted by Steelguin

Its going to be pushed back. There isn't infrastructure for all electric cars.

I agree. The country couldn't even figure out how to roll out RealID in time … lol.

[Steelguin]

Imagine all the people living in apartments. Where they all plugging in? Were far away from what's needed.

[s1k_RR]

Gas engines isnt over yet, they cannot stop making ICE. Electric cars cant even be supported everywhere in the US. https://www.thedrive.com/news/tesla-...e-to-heat-wave

Also, places like Cali have a 2035 mandate, maybe in 2030 the mfg will get more serious. I doubt BMW is going all in already. They've gotta be smarter than that. Even porsche isnt going all in, they're trying to develop new fuels.

I'm not an electric car hater either, if I was a baller my daily will be a Plaid. Even if I work from home!!!!

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

If they do make a CSL, here is what I hope:
1. A manual transmission. This is a must. Having a basic auto tranny is a non-starter for me.
2. A real diet. 200 lbs.+ is a start. I would like to see the car weigh 33XX if it's a true CSL.
3. Adjustability. This isn't the M4 CSL BS where you don't get a wing, or a half cage, or coilovers that you can manually adjust. Stuff that the GTS had that the CSL doesn't. Meaning, it's not just a money grab.
4. Something truly unique outside of a lip kit, trunk spoiler, and wheels. I would love something cool and instantly recognizable like different fenders.
5. Keep the same power plant, at 33XX lbs. sticky tires, with actual downforce, 455 hp is plenty.
6. Under 6 figures price tag.
That is all for now. Please send these notes to BMW NA so they can start working on it ASAP. Thanks BigKutta

A 3,300 pound M2 CSL under six figures? Not going to happen. You have to pay to play. More like $130K.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

If they do make a CSL, here is what I hope:
1. A manual transmission. This is a must. Having a basic auto tranny is a non-starter for me.
2. A real diet. 200 lbs.+ is a start. I would like to see the car weigh 33XX if it's a true CSL.
3. Adjustability. This isn't the M4 CSL BS where you don't get a wing, or a half cage, or coilovers that you can manually adjust. Stuff that the GTS had that the CSL doesn't. Meaning, it's not just a money grab.
4. Something truly unique outside of a lip kit, trunk spoiler, and wheels. I would love something cool and instantly recognizable like different fenders.
5. Keep the same power plant, at 33XX lbs. sticky tires, with actual downforce, 455 hp is plenty.
6. Under 6 figures price tag.
That is all for now. Please send these notes to BMW NA so they can start working on it ASAP. Thanks BigKutta

Would love all these to be true! My predictions on those:
1. There will be a manual option - BMW has performance covered with G80/2. G87 looks to be positioned as the "fun" car so it doesn't have the same performance pressure.
2. Don't think this will happen since the chassis is already extremely heavy. I think if it can break 35XX that will be a win.
3. BMW pivoted on the meaning of CSL for the G Chassis - now it means road car that can track well instead of track car that can road well. If G87 CSL happens, I think it'll have light aero and electronically adjustable dampers.
4. I fully expect the usual accoutrements - lip, spoiler or ducktail, carbon hood, and optional tacky paint scheme.
5. They might let it push the base G8X power of 473hp. I agree with you whole heartedly - these cars don't need any more power, just weight savings.
6. I'd assume 90-100k MSRP

[MarlboroM2C]

Originally Posted by Steelguin

Imagine all the people living in apartments. Where they all plugging in? Were far away from what's needed.

Charging stations. Let em buy extension cords

[chris719]

Originally Posted by MarlboroM2C

Charging stations. Let em buy extension cords

It's going to be a bumpy transition but it'll happen, no doubt.

[MooMooM2]

It will 100% happen. In euro cities most live in condos and they have it figured out, no reason why they won't get it figured out here.

However are we there by 2030? I don't think so but it will happen eventually

[Jimjamz]

The 3.0 CSL provides a way for M to deliver a higher power S58 with a manual implementation. Perhaps that tech will be a hand me down manual option for a future G87 CS or CSL - or even the upcoming G80 CS? They won't be able to say it's not possible after all.

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

Maybe someone already knows this or not, but the G87 is gonna be the last gasoline M car hurrah for BMW, and I feel like there will be a M2CSL. Judging by the M4CSL pics (sans big grill), I NEED an M2 version of this. Love it!!!

I would prefer a CSR

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

True. As mentioned, I'm hoping there's one M ICE w/ a manual in the lineup at BMW.

I suspect Porsche will have a manual ICE option with a 718 variant, hopefully 911 variant.

Toyota will hopefully keep something available for the next model cycle esp if manual Supra sales are strong. GR Corolla is already a hit as is the GR86. I suspect Mazda will keep a Miata manual around.

With minimal options available, the take rate for manuals should be pretty strong in the few models still offering them. Why lose that market share? There won't be much R&D into new ICE development, but these engines are powerful enough and if all they're doing is tweaking what's already available and restyling the cars every few years I'm happy to have an option from BMW even if the styling is questionable.

What if BMW drops the manual altogether and the only way to get a manual S58 BMW is if it has a Toyota badge on the hood lol?

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

What if BMW drops the manual altogether and the only way to get a manual S58 BMW is if it has a Toyota badge on the hood lol?

If BMW drops manuals, I prob won't buy a new BMW again.

I'd happily buy the Supra or any other manual option from another manufacturer.

If my main purpose is transportation from point A to B in a handsome package w/ no manual, I'll most likely stick with Mazda. Best bang for your buck manufacturer right now. There's a Mazda3 hatch premium package in the family currently, and that car, purchased at $25k, is better than any 2/3 series, Lexus IS, MB C class, Audi A4; cars that when spec'd out like the Mazda are more than 2x the price.

[Steelguin]

I thought Supra didn't have a manual

[rwemersonrw]

Originally Posted by Steelguin

I thought Supra didn't have a manual

2023 Supra will be offered with a manual option

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-supra-manual/